Behind the scenes of a large wholesaler

[JamOne1]

I have worked at the LFS for over 15 years and wanted to share an experience I had at the largest fish wholesaler in the Chicagoland area in order to inform people on how fish are shipped. My coworker and I had gone to the wholesaler to pick out stock for the store. This is a warehouse-sized facility and we had finished and were waiting for our stock to be bagged, boxed and billed. As we were waiting the workers started wheeling out all these 30-50 gallon garbage cans into the aisles of holding tanks (2-3 cans per aisle). Then stacks of boxes were wheeled in. The workers opened the boxes and started sorting through them. With great speed they threw the bags of dead fish in the garbage and the live ones in the tanks. Most of the bags contained so little water the fish were swimming on their sides (water is heavy and costs a lot to ship). We were shocked that they would toss powder blue tangs and emperor angels into tanks like they were little beach balls. But the really horrifying part was how many bags of fish were immediately thrown into the garbage. Well over half the fish (enough to stock a second warehouse) were DOA. By the end, the garbage cans were full with dead saltwater fish. This was clearly just part of their routine. We were not supposed to be in there when they got their shipment in and the owner was livid that we saw this. I am still horrified that I am part of the reason this happens.


What can the hobbyist do?
1. Understand that the ocean is not a limitless pot of gold.
2. Buy captive bred fish and fragged corals.
3. Quarantine your stock (especially fish).
4. Do not accept high death rates from any seller-even if your money is guaranteed. If fish or coral died during shipping on an overnight ship then there is a problem with the seller, the packaging or the shipping company.
5. Do your research and buy within your capabilities . . .

and please share your knowledge!

 

[JMcAz7]

Excellent post. Saltwater hobbyist make up a very small portion of the damage done to coral reefs worldwide, but we are also the first to see the impact done. Many species of corals and fish are now easily captive bred, and should be your first and only choice when available.

We aren't protecting the Earth for our children, we are only borrowing it from our grandchildren.

 

[chrissreef]

"Many species of corals and fish are now easily captive bred" - umm, not on the fish side. Something like under 2-3% of saltwater ornamental fish are captive bred - the rest is WILD caught =( Basically... clownfish. Sure a few gobies/blennies/cardinals CAN be captive bred but aren't in any real numbers. All your tangs, angels, anthias, hawkfish, damsels, lionfish, puffers, butterflies etc. etc. are wild =(

 

[JMcAz7]

chrissreef, I think you missed the point. I know that for every species of fish that is captive bred, 10 aren't. I'm not trying to debate you on numbers. The point is, as more responsible choices become available, the more responsible choice has to be made. New.species are being captive bred all the time. 30-40 years ago, the thought of keeping live corals and reef fish was considered impossible, but is now commonplace. New techniques and equipment are being developed all the time, and new species are being bred in captivity every day.

If we are careless and destructive with our hobby, what right do we have to practice it?

Thanks for trolling my response, BTW.

 

[fauxjargon]

chrissreef, I think you missed the point. I know that for every species of fish that is captive bred, 10 aren't. I'm not trying to debate you on numbers. The point is, as more responsible choices become available, the more responsible choice has to be made. New.species are being captive bred all the time. 30-40 years ago, the thought of keeping live corals and reef fish was considered impossible, but is now commonplace. New techniques and equipment are being developed all the time, and new species are being bred in captivity every day.

If we are careless and destructive with our hobby, what right do we have to practice it?

Thanks for trolling my response, BTW.

This hobby is a luxury. It's easy to say "Well I buy captive raised whenever it's available" and then go buy the tang or angel or whatever that came out of the ocean and feel better, but really, why do you need that fish in the first place?

Granted, I don't need my ORA clowns or Dottyback either, but at least 5-6 other clowns/dottybacks did not die so I could have my fish... some probably did, just like in FW but the ratios are very different. What gives people the right to go to a LFS and buy a fish that lives in schools of hundreds and put it alone in a 90 gallon tank?

 

[Banjo]

Thanks for sharing this. Unfortunately it's disgusting that they're treated this way. It really makes you wonder...

 

[JamOne1]

Just to fix an omission, this happened about 7 years ago.

 

[billsreef]

I find myself curious as to what wholesaler (feel free to PM me if you don't want to publicly disclose). A number of years ago I spent some time working for one of the big chains. For awhile they used a Chicago area wholesaler for the SW fish. The absolutely worst quality I've ever seen from a wholesaler.

 

[Reef obcession]

honestly I hate to hear about this type of collecting. Its really a shame some people dont care about only themselves and nothing else. This should be goverened to keep things in order. Yes it would raise the price of fish but so what. I believe we should do what ever we can do to prevent these types of acts. In water and on land

 

[flyhigh123]

At least 50% die off from the wholesalers plus another 10% at the lfs.

Sad but true...

 

[billsreef]

The real shame of it is that it's totally unnecessary

 

[coral_addict]

This hobby is a luxury. It's easy to say "Well I buy captive raised whenever it's available" and then go buy the tang or angel or whatever that came out of the ocean and feel better, but really, why do you need that fish in the first place?

Granted, I don't need my ORA clowns or Dottyback either, but at least 5-6 other clowns/dottybacks did not die so I could have my fish... some probably did, just like in FW but the ratios are very different. What gives people the right to go to a LFS and buy a fish that lives in schools of hundreds and put it alone in a 90 gallon tank?

On the other hand, if you buy only captive bred fish, then your angels and tangs and hawkfish won't ever be captive bred, because you have to keep them to breed them.

 

[organism]

But the really horrifying part was how many bags of fish were immediately thrown into the garbage. Well over half the fish (enough to stock a second warehouse) were DOA. By the end, the garbage cans were full with dead saltwater fish. This was clearly just part of their routine. We were not supposed to be in there when they got their shipment in and the owner was livid that we saw this. I am still horrified that I am part of the reason this happens.

Wow, that's definitely not your typical wholesaler. The live arrival rate at wholesalers is over 80%, not 50%. The reason you're seeing 50% at that one is probably a combination of their cut rate suppliers and, more importantly, the fact that the corals passed through LA on their way to Chicago, adding an extra 8 or so hours onto their already extremely long commute.

All of the ones I've seen in LA drip acclimate the fish in species specific containers for about 30 or so minutes before putting them in their systems. Medications keep the subsequent die off low at 10%ish, but some fish have higher DOA's and others have less than 5% overall.

I agree 100% that hobbyists should only buy and demand captive raised fish from LFS if those species are available, it would make a huge change in the hobby siunce even an overall 70% death rate is way too high imo, so don't get me wrong that I'm not on the same page as you. Thing is though, you basically went backstage at the butcher shop to see the slaughterhouse, it may be a bit unsightly to visitors, and it might have been a really crappy slaughterhouse, but if you like meat, well, for the most part that's how it gets on your plate.

 

[jcw]

Just to fix an omission, this happened about 7 years ago.

????

 

[MHG]

Well 3rd world Nation indigenous collectors get paid, importers get paid, wholesalers get paid, LFS and Internet retailers get paid, and we pay them. Cocaine (I mean Reefing) is a horrible addiction and our addiction feeds that industry like the drug lords. Well we are on our way to shutting down almost every LFS because the internet killed them, so all we can do is buy clowns and frags from the internet. Otherwise we will continue to feed the monster...


There are two kings of businessmen (women) who take from the earth bounty. Those who deal in the shadows and those who understand that this is a crop and like all natural crops you must selective harvest. The lumber business has for the most part figured that out and thus we have mega young growth tree farms for engineered lumber. But our appetite for exotic wood furniture will necessitate selective harvesting.

As long as the majority of coral reefs are in corrupt third world nations we will continue to over harvest and the results are bad. Governments can license harvesters/collectors to control the harvest or the consuming countries can have laws that govern the importation like with exotic birds but there will always be some guy willing to pay some local tribesman to throw some colorful fish in a bag. Thus it is sumple supply and demand. We demand it, they supply it.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

At least 50% die off from the wholesalers plus another 10% at the lfs.

Actually, one estimate is 90% between collection and 1 month in a customer's tank. Frankly, if it bothers anyone that much they should get out of the hobby and just visit public aquariums. The wholesalers in Miami don't lose as many on incoming shipments as the OP described, but it's not a minimal amount either.

Jeff

 

[MHG]

Actually, the estimate is 90% between collection and 1 month in a customer's tank. Frankly, if it bothers anyone that much they should get out of the hobby and just visit public aquariums.

Jeff

Right on...

 

[fauxjargon]

On the other hand, if you buy only captive bred fish, then your angels and tangs and hawkfish won't ever be captive bred, because you have to keep them to breed them.

Well, yes, you have a point that the only reason it is possible to buy ORA fish is because the wild caught fish started the interest in keeping these fish in aquariums in the first place.

Who says that angels, tangs and hawkfish really should be kept in captivity - I am not opposed to fishkeeping (or reptile, bird, whatever keeping) - I have a FW tank and a SW tank and I don't think I'm a hypocrite.

This goes as much for FW as it does for SW: Some fish live in large groups and have incredible amounts of swimming space in nature. Some fish do not.

I'm not saying that the 10 dollar Bala shark (14") is in any way worse or better than an expensive tang, triggerfish or angelfish - neither of them really belong in aquaria, unless the aquariums are very large. Big public tanks (or very rich people I guess) with massive tanks can and should keep these fish so that people can appreciate them. But when you are at the LFS, instead of picking up two bala sharks, why not get two Bolivian Rams? They cost about the same and will actually behave naturally (courtship, spawning, raising young) in your tank whereas the bala sharks will not do so well, especially as they get big.

I might be somewhat jaded by working at the LFS, but I see very little difference between the customer who takes home a tang, puts it in his tank and kills it through bad water or nutrition and the customer who comes in and does the same thing to a goldfish in a bowl. Except the guy with the big saltwater tank is spending more money on his hobby and he should know better.

Call me a skeptic, but is ORA even working on breeding tangs? I know there was some work done with angelfish and I have no idea about hawkfish.

If you must put wild caught animals in your fish tanks (like I did with hermits and probably snails), at least choose ones that do well in captivity and do not have a lifestyle that is clearly not well adapted to life in a glass box.

 

[Caesra]

The real shame of it is that it's totally unnecessary

The real shame is it is true, but then you reflect on the mentality regarding life and you wind up at threads where people discuss just how cheap they can get things.


We basically get two choices, spend your money responsibilyly with people who are reponsible, or spend your money on the cheapest. The worst part of those choices, is those who are responsible tend to take advatage of their scenarios to gouge people.

I have consulted for a great many companies over alot of years and there is nothing unique about this post. Business has nothing to do with responsability. They exist to make money. Low cost, high profit. If you walk into a hospital and think it is about being cared for, you are as sadly mistaken as the fish in that dead barrel.

This is the world we have built, and we have to decide to unbuild it.

 

[organism]

The real shame is it is true, but then you reflect on the mentality regarding life and you wind up at threads where people discuss just how cheap they can get things.


We basically get two choices, spend your money responsibilyly with people who are reponsible, or spend your money on the cheapest. The worst part of those choices, is those who are responsible tend to take advatage of their scenarios to gouge people.

I have consulted for a great many companies over alot of years and there is nothing unique about this post. Business has nothing to do with responsability. They exist to make money. Low cost, high profit. If you walk into a hospital and think it is about being cared for, you are as sadly mistaken as the fish in that dead barrel.

This is the world we have built, and we have to decide to unbuild it.

Great post!