Behind the scenes of a large wholesaler

[Gill_bucket]

I love how specific is "around Indonesia and micronesia" LOL

 

[billsreef]

I'm trying to find a nice way of saying that's an outright lie, but... that's an outright lie. Dynamite creates a shockwave that kills fish almost instantly, it's why they use it for fishing, and collectors do not and will never use it. It's like saying someone harvests strawberries with a lawnmower. Collectors get paid for the live fish they bring back, so why you'd feel a need to make something like that up is beyond me.

Yup. Dynamite fishing is solely used by food fisherman that aren't concerned with the fish being alive. Collectors for the ornamental trade wouldn't be able to get anything marketable via dynamite fishing. Heck, even a M-80 kills anything close enough to be effected by the concussion.

 

[aday2remmbr]

believe what you wish, i was just trying to tell a story. you say that dynamite kills fish instantly but they used it, and it worked. i dont know if it was ordinary dynamite it would stun the fish for several minutes then they would snap out of it. and trust me, im just as old as you guys.

 

[SkullV]

believe what you wish, i was just trying to tell a story. you say that dynamite kills fish instantly but they used it, and it worked. i dont know if it was ordinary dynamite it would stun the fish for several minutes then they would snap out of it. and trust me, im just as old as you guys.

Hahaha this guy again! He is currently telling a tall tale in the anemone forum as well. Also found it prudent to lie about his local LFS' prices in a sale thread of mine. Even after calling the LFS and speaking with an employee he insisted he was telling the truth. I feel the same way as the rest of you about his age, no reason for an adult to lie in order to validate themselves.

I wish some of the fish on my wishlist were being bred in captivity. Aquaculture is the only.hope our hobby has for survival.

 

[dustinc]

We're also the ones that are sitting still while oil companies enjoy some of the highest profits in history and consumer gas prices rise to astronomical levels. It's not the Phillipines that refused to even consider cutting billions of dollars of taxpayer incentives currently given to American oil companies...that would our US Senate (well, the Republicans anyway) that did that.

This post is very far off base. Oil companies make less profit per item than most every other type of company in the world. They rely on quantity which we give them. Do a little research before you talk about their profits. I'm not saying they didn't make a ton of money, but the reason they did was quantity, not price gouging. And no I don't work for any oil company, I just know business acumen.

 

[GreshamH]

I'm trying to find a nice way of saying that's an outright lie, but... that's an outright lie. Dynamite creates a shockwave that kills fish almost instantly, it's why they use it for fishing, and collectors do not and will never use it. It's like saying someone harvests strawberries with a lawnmower. Collectors get paid for the live fish they bring back, so why you'd feel a need to make something like that up is beyond me.

Also, "pet" and "co" do not own collection stations, and as a result don't have specific collectors. The only plausible part to your story is that, at some point in time in your life, you were on a boat.

I know numerous wholesalers that supply PETCO and PETSMART. Neither of those companies does anything other then buy fish stateside. They have no interest in the field what so ever.

I have major CN experience over the past umpteen years and in all research I have done, it all point so localized uses. CN is not cheap. They do not dump it over a large area. CN is used to keep the collectors in debt as well.

Dynamite is food dish only. Ever been underwater when even a Blackcat goes off?

Lovely fiction, too bad we're all very privy to the non fiction version :lol:

 

[bamf25]

This post is very far off base. Oil companies make less profit per item than most every other type of company in the world. They rely on quantity which we give them. Do a little research before you talk about their profits. I'm not saying they didn't make a ton of money, but the reason they did was quantity, not price gouging. And no I don't work for any oil company, I just know business acumen.

To add to this, the governement (state and federal combined) make more tax money per gallon sold then the company selling the gas.

As fot the origianl post. Knowing there is any lose makes me sad. I lose a fish and I feel guilty about it for days, and beat myself up. The % really does not matter to me.

 

[Paco]

What is the difference between an ornamental fish and a food fish?

100% of food fish end up dead -- who is crying for the pollack?

Just trying to be realistic here. Yeah, we shouldn't waste fish but I eat way, way more fish in a year than I am responsible for killing via my participation in the aquarium hobby.

 

[billsreef]

What is the difference between an ornamental fish and a food fish?

One is generally considered a pet, along with all the emotional attachments that come with that status. The other is simply considered dinner

From a simple extractive fisheries concept, the only difference is method of fishing and handling of the catch afterwards. In either event, both types of fish have been removed from the environment.

 

[Paco]

One is generally considered a pet, along with all the emotional attachments that come with that status. The other is simply considered dinner

This is exactly my point. Maybe we should step off our holier-than-thou platforms and not get so bent out of shape. Again, I don't want to see fish die unnecessarily but I think any attempt to remove something from its native environment and to ship it around the world will result in some die-off. And they're just fish. Yeah, I like 'em. I don't like it when they die but I don't feel guilty for days or beat myself up.

Last night at dinner I was taking a fish-oil capsule and one of my kids asked about it. I said it was from fish livers and asked how would he like to have a job squeezing fish-oil out of fish livers.

"No way!"

So I asked him how he thought the fish felt about it :crazy1:.

 

[organism]

This is exactly my point. Maybe we should step off our holier-than-thou platforms and not get so bent out of shape. Again, I don't want to see fish die unnecessarily but I think any attempt to remove something from its native environment and to ship it around the world will result in some die-off. And they're just fish.

No, they're a resource, and the arguments over commercial fishing and the OP's wholesaler are fairly parallel: wasting and abusing resources. Pointing out abuse isn't getting on a high horse, it's demanding better treatment of a natural resource. Personally I don't eat commercial fish nor buy from crappy LFS/wholesalers, but even if I ate commercial fish, it still wouldn't make a valid excuse for destroying resources elsewhere.

Your logic taken further says that an arsonist burning down a forest is ok, because trees were killed in the making of your home.

 

[billsreef]

From the standpoint of a fisheries biologist, any type of fishing needs to be done in a sustainable manner. Both from the standpoint of numbers extracted of a given species and fishing methods. Not to mention any waste should be minimized.

 

[bamf25]

Many commerial fisherman at least within the US are coming to realize that maintaining the fisheries is not just good for the environment, but also their livelyhood. When, it comes to dollar figures fishing in a sustainable way means they have a job for themselves as well as possibly their children. The fishing regulations as what can be cought, when and how many is fairly stringent now, and if you are found in violation you get a heavy fine. So talking money, the fisherman has come to understand. I know similar regulations exists in most western/more modern countries. I am not sure there is any meaningful regulation in developing nations.

As for ornimental fish trade. Again, Hawaii and Florida are tightly regulated, as well as many of the Caribian Islands (Grand Cayman's fine is around $6000 US for damaging coral not even going into illegal harvesting). The harvesting problems again lies more with developing nations.

 

[Da Saltwater DJ]

These post are DEEP and very informational .

 

[asid61]

I have worked at the LFS for over 15 years and wanted to share an experience I had at the largest fish wholesaler in the Chicagoland area in order to inform people on how fish are shipped. My coworker and I had gone to the wholesaler to pick out stock for the store. This is a warehouse-sized facility and we had finished and were waiting for our stock to be bagged, boxed and billed. As we were waiting the workers started wheeling out all these 30-50 gallon garbage cans into the aisles of holding tanks (2-3 cans per aisle). Then stacks of boxes were wheeled in. The workers opened the boxes and started sorting through them. With great speed they threw the bags of dead fish in the garbage and the live ones in the tanks. Most of the bags contained so little water the fish were swimming on their sides (water is heavy and costs a lot to ship). We were shocked that they would toss powder blue tangs and emperor angels into tanks like they were little beach balls. But the really horrifying part was how many bags of fish were immediately thrown into the garbage. Well over half the fish (enough to stock a second warehouse) were DOA. By the end, the garbage cans were full with dead saltwater fish. This was clearly just part of their routine. We were not supposed to be in there when they got their shipment in and the owner was livid that we saw this. I am still horrified that I am part of the reason this happens.

That sickens me. My mom needs to see that post so that she doesn't say "don't buy online! Buy local!"

 

[albano]

That sickens me. My mom needs to see that post so that she doesn't say "don't buy online! Buy local!"

????? not sure how you interpreted that post...IMO...many online places get their fish thru the same importers as LFS use.

 

[Paco]

Personally I don't eat commercial fish nor buy from crappy LFS/wholesalers, but even if I ate commercial fish, it still wouldn't make a valid excuse for destroying resources elsewhere.

Your logic taken further says that an arsonist burning down a forest is ok, because trees were killed in the making of your home.

So you don't eat any fish or only the one you catch yourself? Not being adversarial just interested in your personal practice. Catching my own fish is prohibitively expensive for me so I choose to buy fish from the fish market or grocery store.

And your ending paragraph is not a valid analogy. One use is constructive, the other is intentionally destructive. I said I don't want to see fish wasted but they are just fish. Some will die. Really, the only way to be completely out of responsibility for any of the fish death is to leave the hobby.

 

[Paco]

Many commercial fisherman at least within the US are coming to realize that maintaining the fisheries is not just good for the environment, but also their livelihood. When, it comes to dollar figures fishing in a sustainable way means they have a job for themselves as well as possibly their children. The fishing regulations as what can be caught, when and how many is fairly stringent now, and if you are found in violation you get a heavy fine. So talking money, the fisherman has come to understand. I know similar regulations exists in most western/more modern countries. I am not sure there is any meaningful regulation in developing nations.

Here's a secret: it's no longer the Americans who are depleting world fish stocks.

 

[organism]

So you don't eat any fish or only the one you catch yourself? Not being adversarial just interested in your personal practice. Catching my own fish is prohibitively expensive for me so I choose to buy fish from the fish market or grocery store.

I usually catch all my fish and I know I'm fortunate to do so, but if I buy them at the store it's farmed only. The problem with all commercial fishing is bycatch, it varies from "tons" to "a lot". Farms have their own issues but collateral damage of tons of other living things isn't one of them. Ornamental collecting is the opposite with bycatch in that they don't kill for example 2 parrotfish for every clownfish they catch, so the industries are not comparable.

And your ending paragraph is not a valid analogy. One use is constructive, the other is intentionally destructive.

It is a valid analogy, most people just don't know how seafood gets on their plate. You should look up videos of bottom trawlers if you want to see how intentionally destructive commercial fishing is. You really wouldn't believe how many things die from commercial shrimp and fluke/flounder trawling, longlining, and gill nets, comparing it to an arsonist in a forest is actually putting it mildly.

Here's a secret: it's no longer the Americans who are depleting world fish stocks.

I disagree: the US imports 84% of its seafood, half of it from countries that harvest fish in ways you wouldn't even want to hear about.

 

[theronsta]

My LFS only buys from a supplier that prides itself in using a "short supply chain". Ideally the fish change hands much fewer times. A lot of people dont know that wild caught fish dont have their water changed and arent fed from the time they are caught to the time they get to the wholesaler.