bubble magus-BK knockoff

those skimmer not new at all , and they are also build very well compare the all chinese skimmer IMO they are the best build .
also in some of them they run the aqua B pump and create very nice skimmate.

reef-free make a very build well product here you can see some sample of this skimmer :

246391-5-embed.jpg


246393-7-embed.jpg


and here you can see how this skimmer skim there is a lot of picture also here that me and Lubu post before on this skimmer :

1198719793961905686.jpg
 
Do you have a patent on your design and if not, why is that? ETSS does
This a a free market and if the Chinese can produce the same design that you do for 1/10 of the cost-then the better for them and the end user.....
Click to expand...

Free Market ? Thats not the Point... when RE created a new Design and Performance for a new Skimmerline, is that mental property of Royal Exclusiv. Patent laws do not have value in China..
Free Market and Globalisation : .. okay, or it is not okay, when China Manufacturers Copied/stolen, all German Design and Inventions.

regards... Klaus
 
I understand why people get upset about ko's, especially companies like RE. Unfortunately people like myself can't afford and wouldn't ever spend that kind of money on a skimmer anyhow. If skimmers would have been less inexpensive like they are today we wouldn't have seen a 100% turnover ration in the last 10yrs. But manufacturers keep the prices up and the only one it hurts in the end is themselves.
 
Michael: thanks for posting those pics again. Yes, they are not new as I said and they have all sorts of pump/skimmer combinations it seems.

Luke: 10" body diameter, 30" tall, 6" neck. I keep messing with it. Added a 3rd pump. Now trying them in flow-through. It is a mean skimmer. I really want one of those controllers for it!!!
 
I starting to really dislike China...

-Would you drive a Porsche gt2 knockoff? just because it was 20k instead of 200k?

I don't think so.
 
cant dislike china for making money the only way they know how ha ha

but on another note, its pretty cool to see these knock offs, i would like to get one of these babies and put my own pumps to it instead of the ones they have on it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11786144#post11786144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ConcreteReefer
I starting to really dislike China...
Click to expand...

Can't blame China.. They only make it because we buy it. No one over there would ever waste their money making KO's if no one was buying them. Ask yourself if you are willing to pay 2K, or whatever the real thing costs, for a bubbleking. Because there is a HUGE demand for cheap alternatives, this is a profitable no brainer for them. I people stop buying them, they will stop making them.
 
If i can add my 2 cents you are comparing apples to oranges here. The real BK skimmers are not even in the same league. Everything form construction to the materials used is totally different. The price is high for two reasons number one it is imported the euro is up on the dollar and thats that!!! also number 2 it is a hand made skimmer even the pump volute is all assembled by hand. Take the ELOS model for example can you get the tank for 1000 dollars less? Of course you can but you are also not getting a tank of the same build and quality not to mention the material are not even of the same caliber. In my experience for the most part you always get what you pay for. A lot of people will buy stuff like the knock off t and by the time they are done modifying it they have spent the same amount if not more to get the same if not sub par performance. , my time is also very valuable too.


So bottom line im not knocking any product of backing anyone up for that matter. im just trying to have people get over the notion that they are getting something for a killer deal.... you always get what you pay for
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11786523#post11786523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CamBarr
A lot of people will buy stuff like the knock off t and by the time they are done modifying it they have spent the same amount if not more to get the same if not sub par performance.
Click to expand...

Thats a bit of a stretch. I dont see a MSX or this Bubble Magnus having over a $1000 in mods when done. Even after modding youll still be left with a grand hangin out!

When you charge $1500-$2000 for something that probably cost $300-$400 at most to make, your just asking for someone to make a cheap KO. It happens to just about every thing thats out there for consumers. Cars, Electronics, Jewlery, Sports Equipment, just about anything you can think of has a cheap alternative to it.
 
The most it will cost to mod a msx is $5 for a few years, and thats just to replace the mesh and zip ties. An octo nw 200 fully modded costs about 5-10 bux. Thats a far off assumption.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11786940#post11786940 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cardgenius
Thats a bit of a stretch. I dont see a MSX or this Bubble Magnus having over a $1000 in mods when done. Even after modding youll still be left with a grand hangin out!

When you charge $1500-$2000 for something that probably cost $300-$400 at most to make, your just asking for someone to make a cheap KO. It happens to just about every thing thats out there for consumers. Cars, Electronics, Jewlery, Sports Equipment, just about anything you can think of has a cheap alternative to it.
Click to expand...

Just because something costs $400 to produce does not mean that other costs are not associated with getting the product to your door. I work in new product development and my target product cost is about half of what the retail cost is. My salary or that of marketing does not factor into the unit cost but that is precicely what R&D is and it does not come free. How much do you think Klaus has invested in CNC machines? I am not sure how many he has but the starting cost of the ones I have seen pictures of is 100K. Precision and accuracy come at a cost and I wish I had the luxury of desiging to CNC tolerances. Fact is to get quality manufacturing out of China it costs about what it does anywhere else. I work with many suppliers from China on a regular basis and the only way to get cheap parts is to go with a guy that is basically working out of his garage with very little experience. Not only that but often times our lowest bid is from somebody that has zero experience in making that particular product. If you go to the more well known suppliers for quality parts it will cost you. It is no suprise that recently the Chinese government has issued a statement that tooling knowhow in China is far behind the rest of the world and if you want something tooled in China then it is best that you bring your own tooling expert.

My favorite story was from a marketing guy whose compay got bought out by a large Chinese conglomerate. One of the Chinese engineers that designed a product came to visit and it just so happened that the product that the Chinese engineer worked on was copied from a product that the marketing guy launched about a year earlier. When the marketing guy asked the engineer to demonstrate the product he could not figure out how to turn it on. Seriously, could not figure out how to turn it on. How do you design something without knowing how it works? Easy you get a pair of calipers and copy dimensions blindly and hope it works. The second something goes wrong you have no way of problem solving it because you have no idea what the thought process is that went into the design.

What you loose when you go with a knockoff is the assurance that the original quality specifications probably are not met. When I am given something new to design I have performance and lifetime requirements that have to be proven out on a good sample size. I can go through hundreds of units doing full product testing. Do you think the KO manufacturers go through due dilligence before putting something on the market? No, as long as it looks close it is good enough for them.

Some people do not care about any of this as long as it is cheap and that is fine, but you cannot say it is Klaus's fault for trying to put out a quality product that when it gets copied it's somehow his fault for trying to bring innovation and quality to the market. I have bought many a watch knockoff in China and they are all broken sitting in a drawer collecting dust. While many people will say spending 2k+ plus on a quality timepiece would be insane. If it lasts a lifetime you would probably come out on top if you bought the expensive watch to begin with rather than replace knockoffs for a lifetime. In this hobby I would rather spend my money on quality products that try to evolve the technology of the hobby rather than reward the people that copy the innovations of others.
 
"spending 2k+ plus on a quality timepiece would be insane. If it lasts a lifetime"

We are talking about plastic and good quality pumps ....they will both last. Don't get mad of at the chinese for producing KO's ... German companies are starting to have alot more stuff made in China as well to save money , and as Coralvue knows the hard way If you have them produce something for you, it does not mean they will not take that product and rebrand it , and sell direct themselves.

Are BK's good skimmers, no doubt, will I ever pay the kind of money they go for , heck no...
 
If I owned a patent (or even just prior art) on something that I spent my time and effort to design, I think I would be quite ****ed about the Chinese flagrantly copying, producing, and selling it. There is a reason for patent law. It is not something that stands in the way of a "free market." Even if you take an entirely libertarian view of how markets and governments should interact, you still come to the fact that there must be laws that protect people's property. Design is property to the designers, just as music is property to the musicians, just as the written word is property to the writers. If I can design and sell a replica of someone else's product, why can't I simply copy word for word someone else's book? I'm sure I could sell a copied book for much less than the writer/publisher wants because I didn't have to invest much money or time into the production of said book. Or perhaps I could just order a copy of the book from some copy shop in China...

What you guys are doing is just coming up with weak rationalizations so that you feel ok with buying this stuff. I agree that BK's are expensive; I certainly can't afford one. But, RE has the right to ask whatever they want for them. There are, after all, legitimate alternatives that are much less costly that are sold by people that actually put time and effort into designing.
 
geoxman your pm is full. I have access to a transformer that will work no problem so if you are serious, shoot me an email and we can figure it out.

I suggest one of the models with the unknown pump -- why use an Aquabee or Eheim when we know what those are? I like the looks of the double version -- basically 2 of the skimmers side-by-side.

This'll be fun.
 
aninjaatemyshoe,

This is neither the place nor time to debate whether it's right or wrong for certain practices.... lets get back on topic :)
 
Buying something is not just about the price and the product you receive.

It is about the design that went into it, the quality of materials used, how good the product work's and finally the most important, is the customer service standing behind the products that they make!!!

example BK, TUNZE !!!
 
Doesn't that look like more of an ati ko? And i'd agree with mavgi, there's plenty of ko's over here that work well......like the msx
 
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