Calcium reactor vs dosing pump.
- Thread starter zchauvin
- Start date
Ron Reefman
Active member
IMHO, flip a coin.
I think the calcium reactor has more downside if it screws up than dosing. But they both have positives and negatives.
I think the calcium reactor has more downside if it screws up than dosing. But they both have positives and negatives.
Bpb
New member
Larger tanks you may save a few bucks a year after several years recuperating the cost of the initial setup on a CARX. I think the benefits of running one aren't necessarily in the money end but on the ongoing maintenance end. Once it's set up and tuned, there is annual maintenance of a quick vinegar/acid bath and pump scrub, media replacing, and CO2 tank refills. Unless you're dosing out of massive containers, you'll be spending more of your time buying and mixing 2 part than you would be working on your calcium reactor. I like the idea of dissolving coral skeletons rather than dosing salts. To each their own. Plenty of spectacular tanks can be found with either method.
The horror stories of calcium reactors are almost always related to regulator failure from cheap parts, leaks from poor craftsmanship, or clogged effluents from ineffecient feed pumping. All can be fixed by getting a nicer regulator, good reactor, and a masterflex pump. But...It'll cost you. I think you should make the decision based on which methodology you prefer on a fundamental level and what kind of time you have to perform maintenance.
You can get DIRT CHEAP dosing pumps and DIY chemicals from the hardware store in some instances, but I wouldn't really trust the reliability of cheap components having had them fail on me in the past. Some get by just fine. One or two failures was enough for me to invest in better gear.
I'm a long time 2-part user, and have owned a working calcium reactor for...7 hours now though (not even tuned yet, still in the test and adjust phase), so take my advice with a grain of salt.
The horror stories of calcium reactors are almost always related to regulator failure from cheap parts, leaks from poor craftsmanship, or clogged effluents from ineffecient feed pumping. All can be fixed by getting a nicer regulator, good reactor, and a masterflex pump. But...It'll cost you. I think you should make the decision based on which methodology you prefer on a fundamental level and what kind of time you have to perform maintenance.
You can get DIRT CHEAP dosing pumps and DIY chemicals from the hardware store in some instances, but I wouldn't really trust the reliability of cheap components having had them fail on me in the past. Some get by just fine. One or two failures was enough for me to invest in better gear.
I'm a long time 2-part user, and have owned a working calcium reactor for...7 hours now though (not even tuned yet, still in the test and adjust phase), so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I like set it and forget it, so I went with calcium reactor. My setup is had a lot of up front cost, but it literally requires 2-3 minutes of work per week to keep it running optimally on my SPS heavy 120. Additionally all of the parts have high resale value so I have no doubt I could recoup 70-80%+ of the cost if I were breaking down my tank (which I'm not!).
Equipment: Geo 120 reactor ($330) + Masterflex brushless pump ($200 on ebay - though I did a lot of work to get this and it was a steal) + aquarium plants electronic co2 regulator ($300).
I also have a pH probe in the geo (~$80) but I don't need it since the pH essentially never moves with the electronic co2 regulator and this is just a sanity check that everything is working properly.
My maintenance schedule:
Every 3 days I test the alkalinity with my Hanna tester, which takes about a minute. If the Alk has gone down two tests in a row I'll slightly adjust the bubble knob on my co2 regulator upwards. If it has gone up two tests in a row I'll slightly adjust the bubble knob downwards (which hasn't happened).
I honestly can't believe how well the system works. My alkalinity has not gone above 9 or below 8.5 in the past 3 months, with my only adjustments being two slight increases in the bubble count as my tanks appetite for alk+calcium went up with growth. I test calcium maybe once every 2-3 weeks and it has never moved from ~450.
I've dosed on smaller tanks and I have nothing against dosing. But if you are lazy (like me) and still want growth and consistency, you can't beat the CA reactor + masterflex pump + high quality co2 regulator.
Equipment: Geo 120 reactor ($330) + Masterflex brushless pump ($200 on ebay - though I did a lot of work to get this and it was a steal) + aquarium plants electronic co2 regulator ($300).
I also have a pH probe in the geo (~$80) but I don't need it since the pH essentially never moves with the electronic co2 regulator and this is just a sanity check that everything is working properly.
My maintenance schedule:
Every 3 days I test the alkalinity with my Hanna tester, which takes about a minute. If the Alk has gone down two tests in a row I'll slightly adjust the bubble knob on my co2 regulator upwards. If it has gone up two tests in a row I'll slightly adjust the bubble knob downwards (which hasn't happened).
I honestly can't believe how well the system works. My alkalinity has not gone above 9 or below 8.5 in the past 3 months, with my only adjustments being two slight increases in the bubble count as my tanks appetite for alk+calcium went up with growth. I test calcium maybe once every 2-3 weeks and it has never moved from ~450.
I've dosed on smaller tanks and I have nothing against dosing. But if you are lazy (like me) and still want growth and consistency, you can't beat the CA reactor + masterflex pump + high quality co2 regulator.
Ron Reefman
Active member
50lb bag of Dowflake for Ca... $18 (lasts 18-24 months)
50lb bag of Mag Flake for Mg chloride... $18 (lasts 36 months)
25lb bag of Epsom salt for Mg sulfate... $21 (lasts 18-24 months)
25lb bag of soda ash for alk... $25 (lasts 12+ months)
I mix up 5 gallon jugs to Randy's specs to feed the dosing pumps and it lasts 6 to 8 weeks for a 400g system that is heavy sps & lps. I've been doing this for 6 years now and have had no issues with chemistry.
Hal
New member
Yeah, but each dosing pump runs about $100, so how is that cheaper than a calcium reactor? Not arguing, just asking.
And where do you get your Epsom salt? I haven't seen that size/price.
Ches
Member
I have 2 tanks and run a doser one and a CaRX on the other. IMO, I prefer the doser because you can adjust whatever is lacking without affecting the other. But the CaRX will save you money over the doser due to not having to buy the supplements. I use TLF reborn in the CaRX and ESV Ca, Mag, Alk for the doser. Thinking about switching to all Aquaforest eventually.
zchauvin
New member
So it seems to me so far that a calcium reactor would probably be better. I like to be hands on with my tank but I also want to be able to enjoy it and not constantly have to worry. If I went the doser pump route I would go with the Apex DOS and they are not cheap. With that said I'm thinking that a one time purchase for larger calcium reactor and then occasional calcium media replacement will probably be better and with less issues.
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James77
Team RC
A good calcium reactor will run you 300-400 bucks, plus a CO2 tank, regulator, and pumps to run it. My last setup which included a peristaltic feed pump(a must IMO) was about $1300 or so IIRC.
Dosing will give you just as good results as a calcium reactor. There is less to wrong with a couple of quality dosers on a timer. You can buy the mixes in bulk, and you can mix large quantities, like in 5 gallon jugs, to make it as little a PITA as possible. The cost savings over the long term, after the inital investment, are going to be negligible.
My new tank....likely a 180 heavy SPS will be using dosers, FWIW
jbvdhp
Active member
How often do you check salinity? I have the creep every gallon or so.
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Ron Reefman
Active member
I use one of these:
http://www.reefdosingpumps.com/sentry.html
They do auctions on ebay from time to time and I only paid $95 for it. I dose Ca and alk with it. I dose 240ml of each every day. This doser spreads out the dose evenly over the entire 24 hours, one drip at a time!
If your chemistry is good, using Randy's recipe you end up dosing equal amounts anyway. I dose Mg (the mix of Mag Flake & Epsom salt) by hand every 2 or 3 weeks when I add top off water.
I get the Epsom Salt from San Francisco Salt Co. Price has gone up some since I last bought from them 18 months ago. 20lbs for under $30 and free delivery.
Ron Reefman
Active member
I test my water every 2 to 3 weeks on average. To be honest, my SG stays between 1.025 and 1.027 all the time. I don't have any salt creep issues. Where are you having salt creep problems? Every couple of months I may have to add a bit of Ca or alk to some top off water to get things right where I want them.
BTW, my SG goes up and down some because I use water out of the tank to fill deli cups to 5g buckets when people buy corals from me. I haven't seen that rate of fluctuation cause any issues.
jbvdhp
Active member
This is true. People don't realize the cost of the media and CO2 ends up being like $25-40+/year. Baking soda is cheap and I get 50# buckets of anhydrous CaCl (Dow mini pellets) for $50, which seems like it's still expensive compared to what others use.
Having said this, I'm still debating between sticking with 2 part or getting a Geo reactor.
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I might suggest that you get your advice from folks with large SPS tanks. Some of the posters in here have mixed reefs and they might not have been where you are going. What can happen with 3-part is that you get to where you cannot evaporate enough water to replace all of the elements with the mix. CaRx will also replace other elements as it melts natural media - the elements that the now-dead coral uptook to create it's skeleton.
You will find with most hard-core SPSers with large tanks that nearly all of them are using CaRx. Most also have to add a bit of soda or dowflake every month or so since they don't exactly get used in proportion all of the time. I would not have a true SPS tank without a CaRx, but would a mixed reef with 3-part any time.
Lastly, if you are trying to be cheap with a large SPS tank, then pick another hobby. This is not a dig rather some very helpful advice if you are advanced enough to understand it.
You will find with most hard-core SPSers with large tanks that nearly all of them are using CaRx. Most also have to add a bit of soda or dowflake every month or so since they don't exactly get used in proportion all of the time. I would not have a true SPS tank without a CaRx, but would a mixed reef with 3-part any time.
Lastly, if you are trying to be cheap with a large SPS tank, then pick another hobby. This is not a dig rather some very helpful advice if you are advanced enough to understand it.
My tank is not exclusively SPS, but it is predominantly so, and I think this is the key comment. There's an elegance to the CaRX that no amount of ice melt can match - cannot think of a better way to provide the minerals corals need, in the right proportions, than dissolving dead skeletons.
For me, it's never been about saving money, rather getting these animals to grow and thrive. Bought my MTC ProCal about 17 years ago and it's still going strong (made a few mods though). I've had much more personal success since using one than before using one. Managing the low pH effluent water is also pretty simple.
I do still have the ability to dose 2-pqrt and run kalk for occasional adjustments.
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