firebirdude
User and Abuser
I got no response. Despite checking the box for "I would like a response to this report."
Check this out guys/gals.
- Thread starter mscarpena
- Start date
greenbean36191
Premium Member
I wouldn't expect one. As has been pointed out many times already, FWC has no legal authority over how natural products are collected in other countries or over their importation into the US- even if they're imported into Florida. As far as FWC is concerned, the only potential issue here is whether these people have a valid saltwater products retail license, which they almost certainly do. The state has no recourse to shut them down or do anything else to them regardless of whether the collection is responsible or not.
If you think these products are being imported illegally (which I see no reason to believe), contact the USFWS.
If you believe they're being harvested illegally or irresponsibly, contact the country of origin.
KeiferTheReefer
New member
Last edited by a moderator:
firebirdude
User and Abuser
Although I agree with your comment, pretty sure it was just teasing/joking.
And greenebean, I really didn't expect one. I realize all the corals are imported dead and this is technically legal. As I stated in my other post, I was just hoping to stir up some more trouble for them. Hopefully FWC would find some small thread undone. Maybe I would just [profanity]the company off more. Who knows.
And greenebean, I really didn't expect one. I realize all the corals are imported dead and this is technically legal. As I stated in my other post, I was just hoping to stir up some more trouble for them. Hopefully FWC would find some small thread undone. Maybe I would just [profanity]the company off more. Who knows.
Last edited by a moderator:
firebirdude
User and Abuser
.... ahem... that can be arranged
mallorieGgator
New member
Does anyone want to arrange a picket? We should assemble outside of the place. I'm all for a little drive to clearwater.
mallorieGgator
New member
Not sure if you guys have seen these articles or not:
http://asiancorrespondent.com/52131/us-firm-shell-horizons-in-illegal-trade-philippine-corals/
http://blogwatch.tv/commentary/shell-horizons-florida-inc-and-coral-trade/
http://asiancorrespondent.com/52131/us-firm-shell-horizons-in-illegal-trade-philippine-corals/
http://blogwatch.tv/commentary/shell-horizons-florida-inc-and-coral-trade/
greenbean36191
Premium Member
It should be noted that while PD1219 does ban exporting coral from the Philippines, their government has allowed exports and issued CITES export permits for corals almost continually since the ban was supposed to go into effect. In cases where shipments have been rejected, the Filipino government has even gone so far as to contact the importing country and insist that the corals are legal and that they be accepted.
firebirdude
User and Abuser
I'm down.
firebirdude
User and Abuser
In fact, I recognize your username from the Gainesville Reef Club website. (Welcome btw) We'll car pool.
We should get the tampa section involved.
Edit: Allow me lol
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18654660#post18654660
We should get the tampa section involved.
Edit: Allow me lol
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18654660#post18654660
Last edited:
mallorieGgator
New member
I think the Philippine government is getting paid off nicely to allow this to happen.
mscarpena
New member
Thats a great Idea. Id be in, but its kind of a long drive.
Brwestern
New member
Not all of us are bad.
acropora1981
New member
wow...
I myself have some skeletons, but its because I worked at LFS for about 10 yrs doing the coral shipments, and of course not every peice survives... But this is just rediculous...the tabling acro shots make me very sad...looks like an entire reef ripped out...sad.
freetareef
New member
ugh... that makes me sick...
Blinkgyrl2987
New member
Greenbean has it right. If you think these corals are being imported illegally contact the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS).
If it means anything me and some friends contacted them 3 years ago about some illegal live coral imports being brought into the country. The USFWS is just now getting back to us 3 years later and is extremely interested in what we know and the evidence we have. They have been calling every couple of days to get facts/pictures/data we've collected about these illegal matters. I just read this entire thread and I too am in disgust. But you guys can make a difference if you contact USFWS!!!
In this specific instance aren't some of these corals on the IUCN Red List of threated and endangered species? Are the people harvesting these corals in the Phillipines braking their own countries regulations by taking them? And is that somehow okay? or is there a loophole allowing them to get by and do this? I'm confused about that.
I feel like something fishy is going on. Some of these countries do have regulations on coral poaching correct?
If it means anything me and some friends contacted them 3 years ago about some illegal live coral imports being brought into the country. The USFWS is just now getting back to us 3 years later and is extremely interested in what we know and the evidence we have. They have been calling every couple of days to get facts/pictures/data we've collected about these illegal matters. I just read this entire thread and I too am in disgust. But you guys can make a difference if you contact USFWS!!!
In this specific instance aren't some of these corals on the IUCN Red List of threated and endangered species? Are the people harvesting these corals in the Phillipines braking their own countries regulations by taking them? And is that somehow okay? or is there a loophole allowing them to get by and do this? I'm confused about that.
I feel like something fishy is going on. Some of these countries do have regulations on coral poaching correct?
Guys,
the Philippines is not like the United States, the Philippines is lawless, from the president down to the local councilman, each and everyone of them are thieves and are corrupt to the bone. The law there is like a spiders web, it only entangles the poor and the weak.
if nothing was done to the people who massacred 57 innocent civilians including media members, men, women and children mutilated, do you think they would care about an effing coral?
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-24/...s-andal-ampatuan-philippine-media?_s=PM:WORLD
there's another world completely different from the united states, whatever laws that we have here doesnt apply there. even US Citizens are beheaded in that country. http://articles.cnn.com/2001-10-11/...ayyaf-guillermo-sobero-hostages?_s=PM:asiapcf
theres a different world out there, different from the society we live in.
Blinkgyrl2987
New member
Rysher, your post really helped me... let me make sure I've got this.
So Shell Horizons is basically taking advantage of a countries resources (legally) because the country itself is lawless... essentially their is a restriction in place about the exporting of hard coral but they do not follow it. Am I reading this correctly?
Basically this is another loophole that we need to close but have no control over? sighs. this sucks!
On the other side of the spectrum I wish that all the people that claimed aqua-culture and mari-culture were doing so with the hopes of returning our grown out fragged corals back to the wild. How can we ever expect to return corals that we grow to the wild if the "wild" thats left out there to return them to is all dead and gone? Wow that was a mouth full. Sorry if that didnt make sense. I see the frag industry as being somewhat of a joke because of all the "exclusive" and "rares" selling for rediculous prices. Then I hear things like "they have good reasons and that its all in the name of conservation because killing an aquacultured coral is better than killing a wild collected one". REALLY??? It just makes me wonder... is fragging about cultivating and growing out corals so we don't have to take from the wild, and can put them back one day? OR is it more about selling more and more corals without a care in the world as long as their making money?
I'd like to see more conservation on the part of the companies selling frags (like efforts to put them back into the ocean) instead of them just selling them. Im all down for harvesting less from the reefs but how are these rare exclusives coming into their hands anyway?
So Shell Horizons is basically taking advantage of a countries resources (legally) because the country itself is lawless... essentially their is a restriction in place about the exporting of hard coral but they do not follow it. Am I reading this correctly?
Basically this is another loophole that we need to close but have no control over? sighs. this sucks!
On the other side of the spectrum I wish that all the people that claimed aqua-culture and mari-culture were doing so with the hopes of returning our grown out fragged corals back to the wild. How can we ever expect to return corals that we grow to the wild if the "wild" thats left out there to return them to is all dead and gone? Wow that was a mouth full. Sorry if that didnt make sense. I see the frag industry as being somewhat of a joke because of all the "exclusive" and "rares" selling for rediculous prices. Then I hear things like "they have good reasons and that its all in the name of conservation because killing an aquacultured coral is better than killing a wild collected one". REALLY??? It just makes me wonder... is fragging about cultivating and growing out corals so we don't have to take from the wild, and can put them back one day? OR is it more about selling more and more corals without a care in the world as long as their making money?
I'd like to see more conservation on the part of the companies selling frags (like efforts to put them back into the ocean) instead of them just selling them. Im all down for harvesting less from the reefs but how are these rare exclusives coming into their hands anyway?
