Chinese LED Lights

[skyrne_isk]

Folks, I am trying to make a decision between these two:

Two of these SD Intelligent LED Aquarium Lights:
http://www.ledaquagrow.com/en-view-cp403.html

or

Four of these D120s:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-15W-4R-4G-4B-with-Lens/317880_587678783.html

All on a 60 x 30 x 24 (l x w x d).

To me, it appears that the SD has a little better spread, more robust and programmable dimming, built-in timers, a remote control (and fewer wires since it is only 2 units). But it appears to be less light overall and if I read correctly, runs the LEDs at 3 watts each (at their capacity) where the D120 only runs the 3W LEDs at 2W each (below their capacity and thus prolonging life). So if money is close to a wash (and it is) does anyone from this or the previous thread have any opinion on which is the better option? Also, for the SD light, there is an option to upgrade to CREEs from BLs for an extra $70 - but you only can use 10K, 460nm, and 453nm. With BLs, you can use 10K, 14K, 18K, 460nm, 453nm, and 420nm. Are CREEs going to put out more light and is the more light worth the fewer spectrum choices? My intuition is that the additional spectrum control would not be worth forgoing for a better LED....

 

[lastresort]

I built a 2:1 w:rb fixture for my 120g and I really like the look but both white and rb are seperately dimmable.I built a smaller 1:1 ratio fixture for my 56g. Its nice but needs more white.I picked up some 650-660nm and some 420-425nm to add to the 120g fixture along with a dim4 to handle the on and off times along with the dimming in and out.I hope to have the reds and purples along with the dim4 installed sometime this week.

 

[clownfool]

Moderator, Is this the kind of linking that is not allowed? I don't want this thread to die.











Folks, I am trying to make a decision between these two:

Two of these SD Intelligent LED Aquarium Lights:
http://www.ledaquagrow.com/en-view-cp403.html

or

Four of these D120s:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...587678783.html

 

[BrianD]

Everyone:

As Debi tried to patiently explain, we have done everything to try to keep this thread open. However, there has been a constant stream of posts from people with commercial interests whose "advice" is geared to promote certain businesses. That is a tremendous disservice to those users who are seeking honest advice.

I understand the concern some have about limiting the mentioning of vendors/etc. However, when many of those recommendations aren't from actual experience, but are instead from people trying to profit from the advice, the information can do more harm than good.

We ask that you help police this thread, and report any posts that are attempting to promote a business. Remember, even sponsors aren't allowed to do that. Advice that is given with the expectation of profiting from it is never allowed on RC.

 

[skyrne_isk]

Moderator, Is this the kind of linking that is not allowed? I don't want this thread to die.

If you read Debi's post, it was pretty clear that it was collective purchasing and shilling that was going on. My post is none of that - just not sure which to buy and the SD light I have not seen talked about anywhere - else I would not have posted at all.


On with the thread.

 

[clownfool]

Everyone:

As Debi tried to patiently explain, we have done everything to try to keep this thread open. However, there has been a constant stream of posts from people with commercial interests whose "advice" is geared to promote certain businesses. That is a tremendous disservice to those users who are seeking honest advice.

I understand the concern some have about limiting the mentioning of vendors/etc. However, when many of those recommendations aren't from actual experience, but are instead from people trying to profit from the advice, the information can do more harm than good.

We ask that you help police this thread, and report any posts that are attempting to promote a business. Remember, even sponsors aren't allowed to do that. Advice that is given with the expectation of profiting from it is never allowed on RC.

I totally agree with everything you said. It might be helpful if you could could post or explain what the basic rules of what is allowed and not allowed without posting the whole forum rules.


Is it not allowed to post links that go to a LED sellers website/ or auction page?

 

[clownfool]

If you read Debi's post, it was pretty clear that it was collective purchasing and shilling that was going on. My post is none of that - just not sure which to buy and the SD light I have not seen talked about anywhere - else I would not have posted at all.


On with the thread.

I was not trying to offend you or anything, I just didn't know exactly what she was talking about.

 

[skyrne_isk]

I was not trying to offend you or anything, I just didn't know exactly what she was talking about.

No worries. From the user agreement:

" ....are deemed to be commercial in nature are a violation of this user agreement and will be removed. As it pertains to the User Agreement, Reef Central defines "œcommercial post" as knowing and willful posts made by private individuals or businesses, directly or indirectly seeking commerce. Additionally, posts made by individuals or businesses in regard to other commercial activities, in anticipation of direct or indirect economic benefit or relief from the subject activity, will generally be regarded as "œcommercial.""


"Recognizing that it is impossible to construct a definition which will satisfy every situation or circumstance, Reef Central reserves the right to determine whether or not a post violates the "œintent" of the "œcommercial post" policy or definition. Violation of this policy will be grounds for removal from our community."

As I read it, members were trying to get together and order in quantity to get a discount or were posting "questions" that were really advertising. Since many of these companies do not have good links to their home pages or even English sites at all, I am not sure how we can otherwise reference which lights we are speaking of without using some of these merchant sites.

 

[cmac23]

They wasn't talking about your post. They were talking about other post

 

[skyrne_isk]

Folks, I am trying to make a decision between these two:

Two of these SD Intelligent LED Aquarium Lights:
http://www.ledaquagrow.com/en-view-cp403.html

or

Four of these D120s:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...-15W-4R-4G-4B-with-Lens/317880_587678783.html

All on a 60 x 30 x 24 (l x w x d).

To me, it appears that the SD has a little better spread, more robust and programmable dimming, built-in timers, a remote control (and fewer wires since it is only 2 units). But it appears to be less light overall and if I read correctly, runs the LEDs at 3 watts each (at their capacity) where the D120 only runs the 3W LEDs at 2W each (below their capacity and thus prolonging life). So if money is close to a wash (and it is) does anyone from this or the previous thread have any opinion on which is the better option? Also, for the SD light, there is an option to upgrade to CREEs from BLs for an extra $70 - but you only can use 10K, 460nm, and 453nm. With BLs, you can use 10K, 14K, 18K, 460nm, 453nm, and 420nm. Are CREEs going to put out more light and is the more light worth the fewer spectrum choices? My intuition is that the additional spectrum control would not be worth forgoing for a better LED....

Another question (or two):

The first light (the SD) having fewer lights, does not appear to use any active cooling - only the aluminum heat sink. The D120 uses two fans and has manual knobs to control the blue and white channels. How much of a risk is it to rely on an active cooling system?

From what I understand, the SD has a remote that more or less allows to independently control the different color LEDs - of which each color of LED is on their own channel. So it isn't just a "blue" and "white" channel, but 10K, 14K, 18K, 460nm, and 453nm channels that can each be turned up or down. I guess the biggest question is about whether or not 96 3W LEDs can replace two 12K 400W metal halides.......really not sure and don't to gamble and find out the hard way.

 

[livingseas]

How can we discuss led lights and different products without linking or mentioning the manufacturers?
I wouldnt have found the manufacturer I just bought from without advice from others here. While I
Get the no shilling thing... I think its been very limited unless bhazard is chinese

 

[mlott132]

Well I was hoping to be able to post some pics and review the new grid dimmer layout that twilight is building. Unfortunately, my lights are stuck in customs. I called FedEx this morning and apparently the customs documents were illegible. Supposedly they have received new docs and my lights should be at my door on Wednesday.

I hope that we can all do our part to keep this thread open as there is a ton of useful information in this and the one that was closed. I have learned a great deal about LEDs from both and I am sure that others feel the same.

 

[cmac23]

You can link sites, you just can't promote group buys or try to sell a product

 

[clownfool]

Does anyone know of any articles or about all the different Kelvins of Leds there are and how one may go about picking which leds to use together.
I'm totally new to this and all the numbers and brands of leds is confusing to me, but I will follow this thread.


please help

 

[bhazard451]

Here is a quick summary of info for these lights, and leds in general:

LED types:
Asian Bridgelux/Epistar leds: typically 60-100lm/watt
Cree XT-E/XPG/XPE leds: typically 110-140+lm/watt

You can use less Cree leds and get the same amount of light as a Bridgelux fixture with more leds. Crees are more expensive however. Be careful of listings that say "Cree" but really aren't. Look for specific Cree models like XPG/XPE and bin numbers in the listings. None of them seem to use the newer XT-E's yet.

Color Ratios:
1:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 10-12k look
2:1/3:2 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 14k Phoenix look
3:1 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 20k Radium look (not tested, unsure of the look)

Led Colors to use:
Cool White (7500k-14000k)
Neutral White (~4500-6500k)
Warm White (~3500k)
Royal Blue (450nm)
Blue (470-480nm)
Violet (420nm)
Cyan (around 490nm). Can use Green if not available
Green (~520nm)

Led coloring is subjective. I have run standard cool white/royal blue and was unhappy with the look. Adding a few Violet and Red to it makes things look much more visually appealing. Cool Blue, Cyan, or Green can also be added for aesthetics, and for other photosynthesis peaks in the case of cool blue/cyan.

Optics:

Optics will focus light into a specified angle, compared to a less focused, wider spread light from a led with no optics.

60 degree optics or lower = more focused, more PAR at a lower depth. Use for deeper than 31"
90 degree optics = still focused but with a wider angle. Good for up to 30"
No optics (120 degrees or more) = wide angle, less focused. Good for a canopy

Companies:
Email them for requests. You can customize the lights how you want via most of the companies. Here are a few, but there are many more:

Evergrow-
Gehl-
Greensun- Luoke
E.Shine Systems
Twilight Group
Houyi
Damai

Reefbreeders- (US company, Evergrow reseller + more)
Pharos Led (Fathom LED, US Distributor)
Apollo Reef Led (US Company, works with Apex)

Warranty:
The US companies will provide a warranty. The chinese ones do also, but YMMV depending on the company. If you ever have to ship the unit back, the cost is astronomical if they choose not to cover it.

 

[clownfool]

Here is a quick summary of info for these lights, and leds in general:

LED types:
Asian Bridgelux/Epistar leds: typically 60-100lm/watt
Cree XT-E/XPG/XPE leds: typically 110-140+lm/watt

You can use less Cree leds and get the same amount of light as a Bridgelux fixture with more leds. Crees are more expensive however. Be careful of listings that say "Cree" but really aren't. Look for specific Cree models like XPG/XPE and bin numbers in the listings. None of them seem to use the newer XT-E's yet.

Color Ratios:
1:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 10-12k look
2:1/3:2 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 14k Phoenix look
3:1 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 20k Radium look (not tested, unsure of the look)

Led Colors to use:
Cool White (7500k-14000k)
Neutral White (~4500-6500k)
Warm White (~3500k)
Royal Blue (450nm)
Blue (470-480nm)
Violet (420nm)
Cyan (around 490nm). Can use Green if not available
Green (~520nm)

Led coloring is subjective. I have run standard cool white/royal blue and was unhappy with the look. Adding a few Violet and Red to it makes things look much more visually appealing. Cool Blue, Cyan, or Green can also be added for aesthetics, and for other photosynthesis peaks in the case of cool blue/cyan.

Optics:

Optics will focus light into a specified angle, compared to a less focused, wider spread light from a led with no optics.

60 degree optics or lower = more focused, more PAR at a lower depth. Use for deeper than 31"
90 degree optics = still focused but with a wider angle. Good for up to 30"
No optics (120 degrees or more) = wide angle, less focused. Good for a canopy

Companies:
Email them for requests. You can customize the lights how you want via most of the companies. Here are a few, but there are many more:

Evergrow-
Gehl-
Greensun- Luoke
E.Shine Systems
Twilight Group
Houyi
Damai

Reefbreeders- (US company, Evergrow reseller + more)
Pharos Led (Fathom LED, US Distributor)
Apollo Reef Led (US Company, works with Apex)

Warranty:
The US companies will provide a warranty. The chinese ones do also, but YMMV depending on the company. If you ever have to ship the unit back, the cost is astronomical if they choose not to cover it.

How would you go about finding REAL Cree Leds from fake if I buy Chinese?

 

[bhazard451]

Just to clear things up a little if anyone was wondering, I am in no way affiliated with any of these companies, nor do I get paid for any of this. I try lights out over my tanks from many companies, and test things like color ratios out for not only my benefit, but for anyone else that is interested as well. I sell the ones I don't like or need, and I keep the ones I love. I even made my first DIY Cree light out of the guts of a chinese light, and I love the thing. It puts most fixtures on the market to shame in pure power/output.

My personal favorites of the companies are no secret. I enjoyed my purchases with Evergrow, Reefbreeders, and Apollo the most. I even won a gift card from Hello Lights a few weeks ago that I'll probably use towards a Maxspect Razor too, as that light interests me. If I have nothing but good things to say about a company, I'm positive about them. If an experience isn't as positive, I make that known too.

I've used Odyssea products in the past because of the price, but I was always afraid my house would catch on fire due to its "quality". I can honestly say these lights are built much, much better.

Some of the companies want and use your feedback to make the lights better, which is really cool too. To see some suggestions from criticism of my first light actually go into a newer model was a really cool feeling... like someone is actually listening to what I want. If a company gives me an excellent customer experience, I will express my happiness with them. If it seems like shilling I apologize. Like I said, I pay for all of these, and am only interested in good service, price and quality, regardless of where it comes from.

Leds in general for reefs are interesting to me, and I'm a big value seeker in everything I buy. I would much rather pay $160-299 for a good light or to make one, over paying $500+ for something that looks nice, but may not even give better performance. There is a big possibility that the $500 light will also be obsolete within a year the way things are now. Led fixtures from 2010 are no match compared to some 2012 fixtures. This thread should be used to test, compare, and to provide info on all the led the choices available... not just chinese. I also really enjoy seeing and hearing about other people's experiences too, as it is just as helpful to me.

 

[clownfool]

Sometimes I see Cree led light fixtures in like 3 leds all together in one cluster and it's like 4 rows of those clusters. Why don't they just spread them (LEDS) out evenly?

 

[bhazard451]

How would you go about finding REAL Cree Leds from fake if I buy Chinese?

You won't be able to truly tell unfortunately. The best you can do is request the specific BINs they use, and match it up to a Cree datasheet. If it doesn't match up or they wont say, I'd be cautious.

None of them use the newer gen Cree XT-E leds yet anyway that I have in my DIY fixture and think are awesome. Despite Cree XPG/XPE being about 30% more efficient than bridgelux, they are still almost 2 years old and not worth the premium price to me, as the bridgelux fixtures just use more leds (55) over the Cree ones (40) to compensate.

 

[clownfool]

You won't be able to truly tell unfortunately. The best you can do is request the specific BINs they use, and match it up to a Cree datasheet. If it doesn't match up or they wont say, I'd be cautious.

None of them use the newer gen Cree XT-E leds yet anyway that I have in my DIY fixture and think are awesome. Despite Cree XPG/XPE being about 30% more efficient than bridgelux, they are still almost 2 years old and not worth the premium price to me, as the bridgelux fixtures just use more leds (55) over the Cree ones (40) to compensate.

I agree. Lots of people use bridgelux and they work fine.