Clipperton Angelfish? Legal or Illegal?

[Blue Ring Sting]

Hi All

I was doing some reading now and had a few questions about the Clipperton Angelfish. I have read about the whole Steve Robinson thing a few years back, but has there been any progress in being able to collect them.

I have read that you can collect them if you get authorisation from the French Government? Has anyone heard of them becoming legally collected?

Also does anyone know what happened to the 52 illegally collected?

 

[jaa1456]

The 52 illegally caught ones were all destroyed as far as I know of. A few might have made it to public aquariums, but none I know of

 

[Blue Ring Sting]

That is unbelievable. They are a protected and apparently endangered species and you go and destroy them.

 

[reefer91]

That is unbelievable. They are a protected and apparently endangered species and you go and destroy them.

Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face :debi:

 

[Jordani]

A few were collected around 6 years ago with all the proper permits.

 

[jnc914]

Interesting read, the original Clipperton Angel thread and story behind the illegal collection and ultimately the unfortunate deaths of some very nice specimens:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1633563&highlight=clipperton+angels


The story was originally reported by a popular marine/saltwater blog. RC censors prevent me from typing the full name or link, but it has RB in the name

 

[jazzman7838]

The 52 illegally caught ones were all destroyed as far as I know of. A few might have made it to public aquariums, but none I know of

There is so much rampant misinformation and speculation about this case it is ridiculous. None of the 52 were destroyed. All of them died within about 72 hours of landing due to very poor holding and shipping conditions. The only person responsible for killing all those fish was the guy that went and poached them from Clipperton and then tried to smuggle them into the US: Steve Robinson.

 

[Vili_Shark]

I heard that some of them made it to public aquarium and died there.

I'm not sure, that was the rumor going back then.

 

[jazzman7838]

I heard that some of them made it to public aquarium and died there.

I'm not sure, that was the rumor going back then.

Yes, they died at a public aquarium, but they were as good as dead before they even landed in the US. They were handled/shipped poorly by Steve and associates and their internal organs showed obvious evidence of it. Most of us in the trade have all opened a shipment where, due to delays in transit or poor handling, nothing can be done to save any of the fish and this was another good example of it.

 

[Vili_Shark]

Yes, they died at a public aquarium, but they were as good as dead before they even landed in the US. They were handled/shipped poorly by Steve and associates and their internal organs showed obvious evidence of it. Most of us in the trade have all opened a shipment where, due to delays in transit or poor handling, nothing can be done to save any of the fish and this was another good example of it.

Well, none out of 52???
makes me smile, and if it wasn't sad I'd laugh.

 

[jaa1456]

There is so much rampant misinformation and speculation about this case it is ridiculous. None of the 52 were destroyed. All of them died within about 72 hours of landing due to very poor holding and shipping conditions. The only person responsible for killing all those fish was the guy that went and poached them from Clipperton and then tried to smuggle them into the US: Steve Robinson.

I would go and find out the right info if I were you. Yes most of them were destroyed. Maybe in an edited or newer publication of the incident it might say otherwise, due to the rarity of the fish. The original publication of the story had the fish as being destroyed. I will try to find the article. It had several reasons for destroying the fish.

 

[jnc914]

Over the last 2 years, I have tried to find out what happened to these fish after seizure. I have read many articles, posts on other websites, and even posts from Steve (Cortez marine) himself after the incident. Nowhere have I read that the fish were "destroyed". Per public legal documents filed with the DOJ, it was originally reported was that 52 Clipperton Angels were collected and then seized. Based on blogs and posts from Glassbox Design and Jake Adams, it was also reported that out of the 52, 12 were DOA. The remaining 40 were in poor to moderately poor condition. USFWS were looking for public aquariums to send the remaining fish. I have found no other documentation reporting if any of them survived, what public aquariums they may have been sent to, or where they are currently located.

I imagine that if any actually survived, we would have heard about them by now. With all the angelfish obsessed RC members on the forum, they would have reported something about them by now.

 

[the808state]

Hmmm. I heard a combination of both stories from the sources. Most were DOA once everything was settled (by settled I mean they were illegal and not allowed to be sold - which was i believe almost 3 days after confiscated) Almost all illegally imported animals are found a home in public aquariums etc if possible (IF possible) sometimes it is not possible. The remaining clippertons that were alive (BARELY alive) went to Steinhart aquarium where they were way to far gone due to being held for 3+ days while they determined what to do.

I heard this from a few different participants in this. I by no means know if this is 100% accurate, but i'm almost 100%

either way, if it not the USFW's or the public aquaria's fault they did not make it. It was a clear forgery of paperwork to smuggle - and the original collector is the only one to blame.

 

[jazzman7838]

I would go and find out the right info if I were you. Yes most of them were destroyed. Maybe in an edited or newer publication of the incident it might say otherwise, due to the rarity of the fish. The original publication of the story had the fish as being destroyed. I will try to find the article. It had several reasons for destroying the fish.

If somebody told you they were destroyed they were misinformed or lying. Why on Earth would the USFWS or a public aquarium destroy even a single one of these fish? Both of them know the rarity and special nature of this species. That's why the USFWS agent recognized them and seized them in the first place, despite Steve lying that they were "Holacanthus passer", and then that they were "Blue Passers", and then, okay, so they are Clippertons, but he caught them in Mexico and a storm must have blown them over. :rolleye1:

I've seen the biopsies--the fresh abcesses, the scarred over abcesses, from several of the fish. They were handled poorly and handled poorly for a long time. They were dead before they even hit the ground in the US.

 

[SDguy]

I don't understand why people post information that they are not 100% certain about, yet say it like they where there/did it. Please just stop... or better yet, just say how you think you know it. I'm so sick of this forum being filled with posts that are so confidently sure of their content, only to be disproved.

So please, just stop already!

 

[jazzman7838]

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Psionicdragon]

why don't you guys give Steve Robinson a call and ask him directly....he does own a lfs...

 

[Vili_Shark]

My thoughts exactly.

If these are your thoughts, at the same time in your previous post you are saying the 52 fish were dead before they arrived USA?.

 

[Vili_Shark]

Hmmm. I heard a combination of both stories from the sources. Most were DOA once everything was settled (by settled I mean they were illegal and not allowed to be sold - which was i believe almost 3 days after confiscated) Almost all illegally imported animals are found a home in public aquariums etc if possible (IF possible) sometimes it is not possible. The remaining clippertons that were alive (BARELY alive) went to Steinhart aquarium where they were way to far gone due to being held for 3+ days while they determined what to do.

I heard this from a few different participants in this. I by no means know if this is 100% accurate, but i'm almost 100%

either way, if it not the USFW's or the public aquaria's fault they did not make it. It was a clear forgery of paperwork to smuggle - and the original collector is the only one to blame.

This is starting to remind me a sloppy importer report to his supplier.

DOA = dead on arrival.

3 days is not DOA.

While USFWL were investigating for 3 days, they could have found a home for these fish.
This is ridiculous !

You're saying it is not their fault?
Steve tried to smuggle the fish, there is no other way to look at it, so of course he is the reason the fish are there from the first place.

But if the USFWL agents wanted these fish a live, they would, first ship them to a public aquarium then investigate.

3 days, which fish would have make it ???? do you know any? does the USFWL agent who suppose to know a thing or 2 about those creatures with gills thought the fish will make it for 3 days?

But that USFWL, their horror stories are known world wide.

 

[jnc914]

This is starting to remind me a sloppy importer report to his supplier.

DOA = dead on arrival.

3 days is not DOA.

While USFWL were investigating for 3 days, they could have found a home for these fish.
This is ridiculous !

You're saying it is not their fault?
Steve tried to smuggle the fish, there is no other way to look at it, so of course he is the reason the fish are there from the first place.

But if the USFWL agents wanted these fish a live, they would, first ship them to a public aquarium then investigate.
3 days, which fish would have make it ???? do you know any? does the USFWL agent who suppose to know a thing or 2 about those creatures with gills thought the fish will make it for 3 days?
But that USFWL, their horror stories are known world wide.

That is a great point. I was not aware that the fish sat for 3 days while USFWS twiddled their thumbs and drug their feet...If true, that is really despicable.