LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
A group of geese
Common Misconceptions In the Hobby
- Thread starter Peter Eichler
- Start date
A group of geese
Aquarist007
New member
continuing with the recap
THESE ARE DISCUSSED ON PAGES 1 THROUGH 5
Peter adds
15.) Higher Kelvin bulbs such as those in the 14k-20k range will cause corals to "color up".
All the scientific research done in this area suggests that Kelvin has no effect on the bright coloration of corals. When it comes to lighting, intesity is the deciding factor on what color you corals are/will be. If you observe your corals getting more colorful after switching to a higher Kelvin bulb it's a result of the change in intesity and the perception of color that comes along with the higher Kelvin and greater blue spectrum.
Conclusion: This one is pretty harmless, but it's one of those beliefs that is perpetuated over and over again on this forum. There are other factors that will help determine coral coloration but all research suggests that the Kelvin of the light source is not one of them.
16.) The phytoplankton I put in my tank feeds my corals.
Very few corals are know to consume phytoplankton and some research suggests that most corals are unable to digest phytoplanton even if they can ingest it.
Conclusion: Phytoplanton has direct benefits to filter feeding organisms as well as pods. The addition of phytoplanton may indirectly benefit your corals but if you goal is to feed your corals directly it's best to look elsewhere.
Manothesea writes:
Here is one that I beleive to be a myth. Please correct me if you think im wrong.
MYTH: Using bagged "live"sand and bottled "live" bacteria cultures will shorten new tank cycles. When I first got into salt water many years ago, i couldnt understand how these could possibly be alive after months on a store shelf. It never made any sense to me but no one was complaining. Most RC member giving advice even suggested its use. Now I see things much more clearly. Store bagged sand is dead sand.
I now use fresh from the ocean live sand. A new tank will not even have a cycle using fresh sand. Fresh sand does not smell horribly like dead sand in a bag does after some tank time. Fresh sand will not have an algae bloom stage. The cycle and the algae bloom comes from dumping a 15 lb bag of dead crap into your tank. For those who do not have fresh sand access, I highly recommend finding some one who can overnight ship fresh live sand to you. Another great alternative is to use dry sand and seed it with cups of live sand taken from your fiends tanks. The use of real fresh live sand will greatly reduce the cycle and the algae bloom if not eliminate them. This holds true whether the fresh sand is from the ocean, an overnight delivery from the ocean direct or from your friends donations. I have seen acros put into new tanks after the second day with no ill affects using fresh sand and cured live rock.
Mbbuna responds to a myth Capn suggests
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
oops just got corrected on another misconception --thanks peter--
Feeding clams cyclopeeze is not recommended due to the size of it--one should stick to phyo.
Also lighting is not as great a concern with adult clams as the young since they can rely on established filter feeding more then the young
you have to love this thread
________________________________________
Tridacnid clams rely on photosynthesis (both young and old) not filter feeding. only Gigas has been shown to increase its filter feeding capacity with age, and even at that not by much. clams have the ability to uptake nutrients right through there flesh to feed there zoox, no need to filter particulate when the raw nutrients are easily available. will they filter? sure. do they rely on it? not in the least.
on the same topic
clams under 3" (or 4" or what ever you might read) can not sustain themselves through photosynthesis alone because there mantles aren't developed enough to house enough zoox to feed them, and or there mantles aren't large enough to house enough zoox to support them. false
within a few days of a clam going through it veliger larval stage there mantles are fully developed and full of zoox. the size of there mantles stays the same proportionately to the size of the clam through out its life. these tiny clam are completely capable of sustaining themselves through photosynthesis alone.
one more
squamosa, derasa and gigas "prefer" the sand. false
all the tridacna clams are most commonly found up on the reef. the only tridacnid clams that are commonly found in the sand are Hippopus species. some tridacna clams can be found on the sand but only in very sheltered areas where the sand doesnt move.v
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
oops just got corrected on another misconception --thanks peter--
Feeding clams cyclopeeze is not recommended due to the size of it--one should stick to phyo.
Also lighting is not as great a concern with adult clams as the young since they can rely on established filter feeding more then the young
you have to love this thread
________________________________________
Tridacnid clams rely on photosynthesis (both young and old) not filter feeding. only Gigas has been shown to increase its filter feeding capacity with age, and even at that not by much. clams have the ability to uptake nutrients right through there flesh to feed there zoox, no need to filter particulate when the raw nutrients are easily available. will they filter? sure. do they rely on it? not in the least.
on the same topic
clams under 3" (or 4" or what ever you might read) can not sustain themselves through photosynthesis alone because there mantles aren't developed enough to house enough zoox to feed them, and or there mantles aren't large enough to house enough zoox to support them. false
within a few days of a clam going through it veliger larval stage there mantles are fully developed and full of zoox. the size of there mantles stays the same proportionately to the size of the clam through out its life. these tiny clam are completely capable of sustaining themselves through photosynthesis alone.
one more
squamosa, derasa and gigas "prefer" the sand. false
all the tridacna clams are most commonly found up on the reef. the only tridacnid clams that are commonly found in the sand are Hippopus species. some tridacna clams can be found on the sand but only in very sheltered areas where the sand doesnt move.
Sk8r adds another myth
I'd add another misconception: that kalk is hard to do. It scared me off for a while, and then I realized it was simpler than what I was doing.
Related misconception: kalk is dangerous---easy to overdose. Not actually as dangerous as fresh water itself, imho. I've accidentally shot a limited amount of kalk slurry into my tank---but far more than I'd have counted safe--- and had no ill effect.
I'd say over all it's much safer than the numerous ways a newbie can screw up buffer/calcium dosing by hand.
Davidryder
Ok, after reading what I missed since yesterday, I have one:
Misconception: cause and effect relationships created by casual observation by the average/experienced hobbyist is hardly fact and IMO hardly - if at all - usable as evidence.
Example: I started dosing garlic and ich went away; garlic is a cure to ich (simply an example, nothing i stand by)
Anyone see the problem? There are so many variables unaccounted for that are simply not observed and/or recorded by the average hobbyist. A lot of these corrected "misconceptions" seem to be a product of these cause & effect relationships so definitively established by the author. I'm not specifically criticizing anyone but IME this type of information comes and goes over time and hardly holds any ground in the long run.
Peter again but he’s wrong on the count
17ish.) You should test for nitrites regularly since they are toxic to saltwater aquarium inhabitants.
Nitrites will only cause apparent stress in most saltwater fish and invertebrates at VERY high levels. Some marine fish and invertebrates have shown to be tolerant of nitrite well in excess of 1000ppm.
Conclusion: After the initial nitrogen cycle is complete there is little to no reason to ever test for nitrites again in a marine aquarium.
THESE ARE DISCUSSED ON PAGES 1 THROUGH 5
Peter adds
15.) Higher Kelvin bulbs such as those in the 14k-20k range will cause corals to "color up".
All the scientific research done in this area suggests that Kelvin has no effect on the bright coloration of corals. When it comes to lighting, intesity is the deciding factor on what color you corals are/will be. If you observe your corals getting more colorful after switching to a higher Kelvin bulb it's a result of the change in intesity and the perception of color that comes along with the higher Kelvin and greater blue spectrum.
Conclusion: This one is pretty harmless, but it's one of those beliefs that is perpetuated over and over again on this forum. There are other factors that will help determine coral coloration but all research suggests that the Kelvin of the light source is not one of them.
16.) The phytoplankton I put in my tank feeds my corals.
Very few corals are know to consume phytoplankton and some research suggests that most corals are unable to digest phytoplanton even if they can ingest it.
Conclusion: Phytoplanton has direct benefits to filter feeding organisms as well as pods. The addition of phytoplanton may indirectly benefit your corals but if you goal is to feed your corals directly it's best to look elsewhere.
Manothesea writes:
Here is one that I beleive to be a myth. Please correct me if you think im wrong.
MYTH: Using bagged "live"sand and bottled "live" bacteria cultures will shorten new tank cycles. When I first got into salt water many years ago, i couldnt understand how these could possibly be alive after months on a store shelf. It never made any sense to me but no one was complaining. Most RC member giving advice even suggested its use. Now I see things much more clearly. Store bagged sand is dead sand.
I now use fresh from the ocean live sand. A new tank will not even have a cycle using fresh sand. Fresh sand does not smell horribly like dead sand in a bag does after some tank time. Fresh sand will not have an algae bloom stage. The cycle and the algae bloom comes from dumping a 15 lb bag of dead crap into your tank. For those who do not have fresh sand access, I highly recommend finding some one who can overnight ship fresh live sand to you. Another great alternative is to use dry sand and seed it with cups of live sand taken from your fiends tanks. The use of real fresh live sand will greatly reduce the cycle and the algae bloom if not eliminate them. This holds true whether the fresh sand is from the ocean, an overnight delivery from the ocean direct or from your friends donations. I have seen acros put into new tanks after the second day with no ill affects using fresh sand and cured live rock.
Mbbuna responds to a myth Capn suggests
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
oops just got corrected on another misconception --thanks peter--
Feeding clams cyclopeeze is not recommended due to the size of it--one should stick to phyo.
Also lighting is not as great a concern with adult clams as the young since they can rely on established filter feeding more then the young
you have to love this thread
________________________________________
Tridacnid clams rely on photosynthesis (both young and old) not filter feeding. only Gigas has been shown to increase its filter feeding capacity with age, and even at that not by much. clams have the ability to uptake nutrients right through there flesh to feed there zoox, no need to filter particulate when the raw nutrients are easily available. will they filter? sure. do they rely on it? not in the least.
on the same topic
clams under 3" (or 4" or what ever you might read) can not sustain themselves through photosynthesis alone because there mantles aren't developed enough to house enough zoox to feed them, and or there mantles aren't large enough to house enough zoox to support them. false
within a few days of a clam going through it veliger larval stage there mantles are fully developed and full of zoox. the size of there mantles stays the same proportionately to the size of the clam through out its life. these tiny clam are completely capable of sustaining themselves through photosynthesis alone.
one more
squamosa, derasa and gigas "prefer" the sand. false
all the tridacna clams are most commonly found up on the reef. the only tridacnid clams that are commonly found in the sand are Hippopus species. some tridacna clams can be found on the sand but only in very sheltered areas where the sand doesnt move.v
quote:
________________________________________
Originally posted by capn_hylinur
oops just got corrected on another misconception --thanks peter--
Feeding clams cyclopeeze is not recommended due to the size of it--one should stick to phyo.
Also lighting is not as great a concern with adult clams as the young since they can rely on established filter feeding more then the young
you have to love this thread
________________________________________
Tridacnid clams rely on photosynthesis (both young and old) not filter feeding. only Gigas has been shown to increase its filter feeding capacity with age, and even at that not by much. clams have the ability to uptake nutrients right through there flesh to feed there zoox, no need to filter particulate when the raw nutrients are easily available. will they filter? sure. do they rely on it? not in the least.
on the same topic
clams under 3" (or 4" or what ever you might read) can not sustain themselves through photosynthesis alone because there mantles aren't developed enough to house enough zoox to feed them, and or there mantles aren't large enough to house enough zoox to support them. false
within a few days of a clam going through it veliger larval stage there mantles are fully developed and full of zoox. the size of there mantles stays the same proportionately to the size of the clam through out its life. these tiny clam are completely capable of sustaining themselves through photosynthesis alone.
one more
squamosa, derasa and gigas "prefer" the sand. false
all the tridacna clams are most commonly found up on the reef. the only tridacnid clams that are commonly found in the sand are Hippopus species. some tridacna clams can be found on the sand but only in very sheltered areas where the sand doesnt move.
Sk8r adds another myth
I'd add another misconception: that kalk is hard to do. It scared me off for a while, and then I realized it was simpler than what I was doing.
Related misconception: kalk is dangerous---easy to overdose. Not actually as dangerous as fresh water itself, imho. I've accidentally shot a limited amount of kalk slurry into my tank---but far more than I'd have counted safe--- and had no ill effect.
I'd say over all it's much safer than the numerous ways a newbie can screw up buffer/calcium dosing by hand.
Davidryder
Ok, after reading what I missed since yesterday, I have one:
Misconception: cause and effect relationships created by casual observation by the average/experienced hobbyist is hardly fact and IMO hardly - if at all - usable as evidence.
Example: I started dosing garlic and ich went away; garlic is a cure to ich (simply an example, nothing i stand by)
Anyone see the problem? There are so many variables unaccounted for that are simply not observed and/or recorded by the average hobbyist. A lot of these corrected "misconceptions" seem to be a product of these cause & effect relationships so definitively established by the author. I'm not specifically criticizing anyone but IME this type of information comes and goes over time and hardly holds any ground in the long run.
Peter again but he’s wrong on the count
17ish.) You should test for nitrites regularly since they are toxic to saltwater aquarium inhabitants.
Nitrites will only cause apparent stress in most saltwater fish and invertebrates at VERY high levels. Some marine fish and invertebrates have shown to be tolerant of nitrite well in excess of 1000ppm.
Conclusion: After the initial nitrogen cycle is complete there is little to no reason to ever test for nitrites again in a marine aquarium.
Last edited:
Aquarist007
New member
these misconceptions are discussed on pages 5 through 10
Great wisdom from Paul
This sounds like fun.
I disagree with everything.
No not really but a few things drive me crazy about this hobby.
I think the most posted thing is what type of animals do I need to get rid of my hair algae problem?
The answer is that no animal will eliminate a hair algae problem.
If it wants to grow, it will grow faster than those few snails will eat it.
People will say that their 1/2" hermit crab or a lettuce nudibranch ate a tank full of it. Not gonna happen. Also there is no such thing as a "Lettuce Nudi" they are slugs and they don't eat hair algae.
Sea hares are another thing. They may eat a little hair algae but they will not clear a tank of the stuff. The hair algae is gone because it died as it does all the time for no apparent reason. Thats why we have so many "cures"
You also can't "cure" it because it is not a disease and it has some benefits.
Greenbean mentioned people saying about cleaner shrimp and fish eliminating ich.
Also not gonna happen. Your ich disappeared for the same reason that hair algae disappeared. It died on it's own as it sometimes does. (personal experience of fifty years +) It also wasen't the garlic, eat it yourself, it's great with linguini and clams.
As to temp changes. I have no chiller, my tank goes to a little over 90 degrees in the summer as it is now. When the lights go off it goes down to the mid eightees. Some of my fish lived to 18 years but only because I diden't let them see the thermometer
UV sterilizers, another pet peeve of mine. They will not cure ich, no way, no how. There is no sign in your tank telling all of those paracites to go into the light. Some may but most of them will just laugh at the thing from the substrait or from their favorite place inside the gills of your favorite fish. They are good at clearing water if you have a diatom bloom or some other one celled nusience problem. They will keep a goldfish pond very clear.
Someone mentioned that a "clean up crew" only lives for a few years. I don't know I think I have some hermit crabs for ten years. I am not really a big fan of clean up crews for the purpose of "cleaning up" but I like them as I like all interesting animals.
There is another one about if you use copper in your tank you can never keep inverts. Wrong.
Never is a long time and although I am older than most of you guys I am not older than "never" and in the beginning of this hobby I kept copper in my tank continousely. Many of those rocks are still in my reef and I diden't notice any residual copper problems. It was a few years after I used copper that I introduced inverts though but I can't say you can "never" use a tank after it has been dosed.
Undergravel filters, my favorite topic. If you use them the correct way, which is in reverse very slowly, they will work forever.
My tank was set up when Nixon was President. That is almost forever.
"Old Tank Syndrome" I don't think that kicks in until at least 37 years. My tank is having problems lately so I think it may be "Old Tank Syndrome"
Rocks get full of detritus after a few years and don't work for nitrification. I say to that......Ha.
I'm done.
Peter
Misconception: Amino Acids are known to be a beneficial supplement to reef aquariums.
The little research that has been done in this area suggests that dosing amino acids might only be beneficial in an aquarium almost devoid of other nitrogen sources, which is not that case with nearly every reef aquarium in existence. Also, it is believed that many corals synthesize their own amino acids, so providing it for them seems a little redundant. It has not even been shown that all corals are capable of absorbing amino acids from the water column, and those that do only do so at very low rates. Lastly it's quite possible, considering the slow uptake of amino acids by corals, that a protein skimmer and tiny organisms would eliminate a large percentage of any dosed amino acids.
Every time you feed your tank you're essentially dosing with amino acids, you're just doing so in a way that we know many of our corals can utilize.
Conclusion: This one could apply to a lot of additives that have at one time been popular. Things such as Iodine, Molybdenum, Strontium, Iron, Mixed Trace Elements, and a wide variety of mystery all encompassing supplements. When it comes down to it amino acids nor any of the afformentioned supplements are needed in order to have a spectacular reef aquarium. The chances of them making a tiny bit of difference is certainly possible. However, the risk of that difference being against you rather than in your favor seems to suggest it's best to keep things simple and rely on good old waterchanges and food.
Davidryder
Oh oh oh I have one:
Misconception: You need the reef central search function to find info on a thread that has already been posted 1,001 times.
There is a very easy way to search reef central. At google.com if you type in "algae problems site:reefcentral.com" it will return results from RC only. Even searching for "algae problems saltwater" will give you all the information you ever needed.
Conclusion: while it is convenient to use "the search function doesn't work" cop-out, it is a flat out misconception.
__________________
Richconoly
Heres another myth:
Freshly hatchd brine shrimp Nauplii should be enriched/gutloaded with phyto and selcon.
They dont even develope a mouth until the instar II stage, which doesnt occur until 36 hours after feeding.
Miwoodar
myth - You can learn everything you need to know on a website.
RC is fantastic. The web in general is fantastic. However, thread chatter is not a complete body of information. It's good to supplement with books and articles from well respected authors. Sprung, Delbeek, Tullock, Riddle, Borneman, Theil, Adey, Paletta, Fenner, Calfo, Moe, where to stop?
I know people who have been reefing for a very long time that wouldn't even recognize a single name on this list. Reading the authors who started the discussions that we continue to chat about on a daily basis would not only help our personal pursuits as reefers but also the entire reefing community on the whole.
Pledosophy
Time for my own "misconceptions"
Number 30 ish or so
Margarita snails are good for clean up crew.
Actually they are a temperate animla that slowly cooks in our systems. They are harvested from tropical regions, however the are found at lower dpeths most often and can live for over a hundred years in a cooler climate. IMO they have no buisness in a reef system. JMO
31 or so
Base rock will become liverock in a few months
I say myth busted.
The anaerobic bacteria that is housed within tradition live rock will take years and even decades to grow in base rock. The anaerobes don't like oxygen and are not often found floating in the water column so they have no way of entering the rock which is quickly covered by the aerobic bacteria. I never believed this myself, even after I read the study, until i cracked open a piece of base rock that was in my tank for a bit over 5 years to find it void of anearobic bacteria as compared to a piece of rock that was imported with a coral attached which had a large population of the bacteria.
JME
Taxifolia is a great species of macro to be used by aquaqrists for nutrient export
The species is so invasive it has been banned in many states and many countries since it has been shown to grow so fast it completely decimates ecosystems. Large harbors have ahd to be closed for clean up due to someone's improper disposal of the "algae".
IT can live in fresh water, it can be completely dried, a mm can grow to 3" in a day in the ocean. It is best left alone.
Thejrk
well I'd say we look at the effects of Alk, magnesium, and carbon dioxide on PH as a whole
Like any other balancing act where multiple "puzzle peices" fit together to create the big picture it's easy for everyone to have their own experience in what worked and didnt when controlling PH. With so many factors involved even something as simple as top off water can all of a sudden change things if the amount is considerable.
We know the goal is to avoid large swings in PH while small swings vs. stable is yet to be proven either way. we know there's a target range and consistent elevation or drop beyond that range for long periods of time seems to be detrimental but even this could use some more study.
So why not stop and restart at the beginning? We know what seawater averages, and we know many of the fluctuations at many reef areas. if we use these levels as our constraints and figure out exactly how all of the aspects involved affect PH as a whole (light, co2, alk, etc) we might be better off in making real recommendations on how to keep it in check? and what levels are really our target.
The most interesting one I find funny is that most people assume PH levels, temp, etc. and make recommendations of such without even so much as asking what kind of environment is in the tank. Not all of our corals come from the same waters, and the introduction of aquacultured corals brings a whole new angle to the base of what we can get away with as some have simply adapted.
A lot of study still in order I suppose!
Fishdoc11
Ok a couple of RC miconceptions:
1) Just because someone has thousands of posts don't assume they know what they are talking about.
2) Just because someone only has a few posts don't assume they don't know what they are talking about.
quote:
________________________________________
If you did a study of aquarium hobbyists I think you would find that successfull hobbyists consist more of blue collar ---electricians, plumbers, craftsmen, science teachers------rather then people with Phd's.
________________________________________
Reefers are actually the most diverse bunch I've ever been around. I see more engineers than anything locally but I have friends that are concrete layers, drillers, MD's, Phd's, water treatment plant supervisors everything. People with short hair, long hair, green hair, covered with tattoos, big, small...everthing. That's one thig that is so neat about it to me
Chris
Sk8r
May I add one Misconception? That acclimation is all about 'time.' Acclimate for an hour, etc., [during which time ph can be a real problem.]
Suggestion: set up your qt tank as close to what comes in from your favorite dealer as possible. Same salinity. Same ph. If the temp is moderately warmer it's not such a big deal as if it's colder.
Test the water of the incoming fish. If it matches in salinity, ph, and temp, put the poor critter into qt. Period. Other params are nice, but I've never lost a specimen where salinity and ph both matched and I got the critter into more water, dark, and quiet.
Just a suggestion.
Great wisdom from Paul
This sounds like fun.
I disagree with everything.
No not really but a few things drive me crazy about this hobby.
I think the most posted thing is what type of animals do I need to get rid of my hair algae problem?
The answer is that no animal will eliminate a hair algae problem.
If it wants to grow, it will grow faster than those few snails will eat it.
People will say that their 1/2" hermit crab or a lettuce nudibranch ate a tank full of it. Not gonna happen. Also there is no such thing as a "Lettuce Nudi" they are slugs and they don't eat hair algae.
Sea hares are another thing. They may eat a little hair algae but they will not clear a tank of the stuff. The hair algae is gone because it died as it does all the time for no apparent reason. Thats why we have so many "cures"
You also can't "cure" it because it is not a disease and it has some benefits.
Greenbean mentioned people saying about cleaner shrimp and fish eliminating ich.
Also not gonna happen. Your ich disappeared for the same reason that hair algae disappeared. It died on it's own as it sometimes does. (personal experience of fifty years +) It also wasen't the garlic, eat it yourself, it's great with linguini and clams.
As to temp changes. I have no chiller, my tank goes to a little over 90 degrees in the summer as it is now. When the lights go off it goes down to the mid eightees. Some of my fish lived to 18 years but only because I diden't let them see the thermometer
UV sterilizers, another pet peeve of mine. They will not cure ich, no way, no how. There is no sign in your tank telling all of those paracites to go into the light. Some may but most of them will just laugh at the thing from the substrait or from their favorite place inside the gills of your favorite fish. They are good at clearing water if you have a diatom bloom or some other one celled nusience problem. They will keep a goldfish pond very clear.
Someone mentioned that a "clean up crew" only lives for a few years. I don't know I think I have some hermit crabs for ten years. I am not really a big fan of clean up crews for the purpose of "cleaning up" but I like them as I like all interesting animals.
There is another one about if you use copper in your tank you can never keep inverts. Wrong.
Never is a long time and although I am older than most of you guys I am not older than "never" and in the beginning of this hobby I kept copper in my tank continousely. Many of those rocks are still in my reef and I diden't notice any residual copper problems. It was a few years after I used copper that I introduced inverts though but I can't say you can "never" use a tank after it has been dosed.
Undergravel filters, my favorite topic. If you use them the correct way, which is in reverse very slowly, they will work forever.
My tank was set up when Nixon was President. That is almost forever.
"Old Tank Syndrome" I don't think that kicks in until at least 37 years. My tank is having problems lately so I think it may be "Old Tank Syndrome"
Rocks get full of detritus after a few years and don't work for nitrification. I say to that......Ha.
I'm done.
Peter
Misconception: Amino Acids are known to be a beneficial supplement to reef aquariums.
The little research that has been done in this area suggests that dosing amino acids might only be beneficial in an aquarium almost devoid of other nitrogen sources, which is not that case with nearly every reef aquarium in existence. Also, it is believed that many corals synthesize their own amino acids, so providing it for them seems a little redundant. It has not even been shown that all corals are capable of absorbing amino acids from the water column, and those that do only do so at very low rates. Lastly it's quite possible, considering the slow uptake of amino acids by corals, that a protein skimmer and tiny organisms would eliminate a large percentage of any dosed amino acids.
Every time you feed your tank you're essentially dosing with amino acids, you're just doing so in a way that we know many of our corals can utilize.
Conclusion: This one could apply to a lot of additives that have at one time been popular. Things such as Iodine, Molybdenum, Strontium, Iron, Mixed Trace Elements, and a wide variety of mystery all encompassing supplements. When it comes down to it amino acids nor any of the afformentioned supplements are needed in order to have a spectacular reef aquarium. The chances of them making a tiny bit of difference is certainly possible. However, the risk of that difference being against you rather than in your favor seems to suggest it's best to keep things simple and rely on good old waterchanges and food.
Davidryder
Oh oh oh I have one:
Misconception: You need the reef central search function to find info on a thread that has already been posted 1,001 times.
There is a very easy way to search reef central. At google.com if you type in "algae problems site:reefcentral.com" it will return results from RC only. Even searching for "algae problems saltwater" will give you all the information you ever needed.
Conclusion: while it is convenient to use "the search function doesn't work" cop-out, it is a flat out misconception.
__________________
Richconoly
Heres another myth:
Freshly hatchd brine shrimp Nauplii should be enriched/gutloaded with phyto and selcon.
They dont even develope a mouth until the instar II stage, which doesnt occur until 36 hours after feeding.
Miwoodar
myth - You can learn everything you need to know on a website.
RC is fantastic. The web in general is fantastic. However, thread chatter is not a complete body of information. It's good to supplement with books and articles from well respected authors. Sprung, Delbeek, Tullock, Riddle, Borneman, Theil, Adey, Paletta, Fenner, Calfo, Moe, where to stop?
I know people who have been reefing for a very long time that wouldn't even recognize a single name on this list. Reading the authors who started the discussions that we continue to chat about on a daily basis would not only help our personal pursuits as reefers but also the entire reefing community on the whole.
Pledosophy
Time for my own "misconceptions"
Number 30 ish or so
Margarita snails are good for clean up crew.
Actually they are a temperate animla that slowly cooks in our systems. They are harvested from tropical regions, however the are found at lower dpeths most often and can live for over a hundred years in a cooler climate. IMO they have no buisness in a reef system. JMO
31 or so
Base rock will become liverock in a few months
I say myth busted.
The anaerobic bacteria that is housed within tradition live rock will take years and even decades to grow in base rock. The anaerobes don't like oxygen and are not often found floating in the water column so they have no way of entering the rock which is quickly covered by the aerobic bacteria. I never believed this myself, even after I read the study, until i cracked open a piece of base rock that was in my tank for a bit over 5 years to find it void of anearobic bacteria as compared to a piece of rock that was imported with a coral attached which had a large population of the bacteria.
JME
Taxifolia is a great species of macro to be used by aquaqrists for nutrient export
The species is so invasive it has been banned in many states and many countries since it has been shown to grow so fast it completely decimates ecosystems. Large harbors have ahd to be closed for clean up due to someone's improper disposal of the "algae".
IT can live in fresh water, it can be completely dried, a mm can grow to 3" in a day in the ocean. It is best left alone.
Thejrk
well I'd say we look at the effects of Alk, magnesium, and carbon dioxide on PH as a whole
Like any other balancing act where multiple "puzzle peices" fit together to create the big picture it's easy for everyone to have their own experience in what worked and didnt when controlling PH. With so many factors involved even something as simple as top off water can all of a sudden change things if the amount is considerable.
We know the goal is to avoid large swings in PH while small swings vs. stable is yet to be proven either way. we know there's a target range and consistent elevation or drop beyond that range for long periods of time seems to be detrimental but even this could use some more study.
So why not stop and restart at the beginning? We know what seawater averages, and we know many of the fluctuations at many reef areas. if we use these levels as our constraints and figure out exactly how all of the aspects involved affect PH as a whole (light, co2, alk, etc) we might be better off in making real recommendations on how to keep it in check? and what levels are really our target.
The most interesting one I find funny is that most people assume PH levels, temp, etc. and make recommendations of such without even so much as asking what kind of environment is in the tank. Not all of our corals come from the same waters, and the introduction of aquacultured corals brings a whole new angle to the base of what we can get away with as some have simply adapted.
A lot of study still in order I suppose!
Fishdoc11
Ok a couple of RC miconceptions:
1) Just because someone has thousands of posts don't assume they know what they are talking about.
2) Just because someone only has a few posts don't assume they don't know what they are talking about.
quote:
________________________________________
If you did a study of aquarium hobbyists I think you would find that successfull hobbyists consist more of blue collar ---electricians, plumbers, craftsmen, science teachers------rather then people with Phd's.
________________________________________
Reefers are actually the most diverse bunch I've ever been around. I see more engineers than anything locally but I have friends that are concrete layers, drillers, MD's, Phd's, water treatment plant supervisors everything. People with short hair, long hair, green hair, covered with tattoos, big, small...everthing. That's one thig that is so neat about it to me
Chris
Sk8r
May I add one Misconception? That acclimation is all about 'time.' Acclimate for an hour, etc., [during which time ph can be a real problem.]
Suggestion: set up your qt tank as close to what comes in from your favorite dealer as possible. Same salinity. Same ph. If the temp is moderately warmer it's not such a big deal as if it's colder.
Test the water of the incoming fish. If it matches in salinity, ph, and temp, put the poor critter into qt. Period. Other params are nice, but I've never lost a specimen where salinity and ph both matched and I got the critter into more water, dark, and quiet.
Just a suggestion.
Aquarist007
New member
THESE MISCONCEPTIONS ARE DISCUSSED ON PAGES 11-
Fishdoc
Ok another misconception:
Aquarists have to rinse everything in RO/DI water and not tap water.
I actually know a very good LFS that does this. I commend them for their effort but IMO it's totally unnecessary.
More misconceptions:
1) SPS have to be kept under metal halide lighting.
Not true... flourescent lighting, especially with the emergence of T5's, is a very good alternative. Especially if you want to save on heat and the power bill.
2) SPS can't be kept under VHO lighting.
Not true. While VHO's are no longer considered "state of the art" they are definately a usable lightning source that can produce good growth rates and excellent color of out of a good # of SPS species including lots of different types of Acropora.
3) You have to have a calcium reactor to keep SPS.
Again not true. 2 part solutions will work even on very large tanks. With the introduction of Randy's homemade recipe it also no longer costs an arm and a leg to do this. The cost is in fact comparable to a Ca reactor if not cheaper for many. I have also seen several nice mainly stony tanks supplimented with kalk alone. While this doesn't work for very heavily stocked tanks it can work well in ones that aren't.
RICHCONOLY
Myth:
T5s will save you on electricity and heat
Heat:
T5s produce the exact same amount of heat per watt as metal halide, but are significantly more difficult to remove the heat. This is for multiple reasons
1. Larger surface area means smaller temperature gradient. Its tougher to evacuate heat because they're not as far from room temperature
2. "Air restriction" : T5 fixtures are much larger than MH fixtures, and make getting proper air flow between the tank and fixture much more difficult. This in effect traps the heat in.
The whole perception of MH producing more heat is based on surface area. T5 bulbs have approximately 1w/inch. MH have 50+ w/inch.
Think of it this way: Which produces more heat? My 900 degree soldering iron, or you 150 degree hair dryer? Its your hair dryer.
Electricity:
Wattage is wattage. There are certain tank sizes that T5 works better for on a wattage basis (4x54w on a 55, vs 2x175w). There are certain tanks that it works worse for (18-24x39w on a 6x3x2 tank, vs 2x250/2x400w in lumenarcs)
Peter
Here's a misconception for you...
The most knowledgeable aquarists will have the best looking aquariums.
I've come to find that the "experts" will often have pretty basic setups, sometimes even to the point of being neglected. JUst because someone has the knowledge does not mean they do a good job with maintenance or even have the ability to set up a good aquascape. I do feel there is a certain art to reef aquariums and not everyone is good at creating a good aquascape. Sometimes it's just a matter of money, reefing is not a cheap hobby and all the knowledge in the world won't buy a large aquarium full of live rock and spectacular corals.
Capn
Another misconception:
Bigger and more powerful protein skimmers are what is needed to be successful. I have been told that you can't have a big enoughskimmer. Yet common sense tells me that there must be adverse affects to skimming to much. So what is the "skim er scoop " on protein skimmers?
Richconley
Another misconception: Corals eat phytoplankton.
They dont. Its too small. They eat the things that eat phytoplankton. (Zooplankton).
Any skimmer worth its salt is going to pull out DTs extremely quickly. Its really easy to skim out.
As to skimmer sizing, I wish. The ratings are all junk. Plus, its not just skimmer that decides nutrient load. Flow matters. Sponges help, refuges help, etc.
I'm kind of the oppinion that you buy a skimmer thats a little too big, and then just keep adding fish until your corals stop lightening up.
Zedar
Swing arm hydrometers are junk. You need a refractometer to measure SG. WRONG!!
I've owned a swing arm for years. On occasion i've suspected it to be inaccurate (because I've been told that they aren't reliable) so on those occasions I've compared it to a refractometer.
In every instance the swing arm was dead on.
Soak them in DI water to keep them clean, make sure theres no bubbles on the arm when you take a reading, and they will last a lifetime.
if I could ask a question in practicalities here:
This is what I was under the assumption(and many other reefers)
set up a refugium--use chaeto, deep sand bed rock rubble, cut the flow down to about 1/10 the main flow, feed it slowly back to the main tank via the sump but past any skimming
this will increase the amount and diversity of zooplankton and bacteria in the main tank--provide food for mandarine gobies ect that will only eat it.
if you want to address a nitrate level--then same situation only increase the flow drammatically so as to pass more water in contact with the cheato
This flow rate is at expense of the zooplankon population in the refug
finally feed phyto once a week to the zooplankon cause they eat it--not the main tank--esp lps and softies--they consume the zooplankton.
What is misconception about the above statements ?
Fishdoc
Ok another misconception:
Aquarists have to rinse everything in RO/DI water and not tap water.
I actually know a very good LFS that does this. I commend them for their effort but IMO it's totally unnecessary.
More misconceptions:
1) SPS have to be kept under metal halide lighting.
Not true... flourescent lighting, especially with the emergence of T5's, is a very good alternative. Especially if you want to save on heat and the power bill.
2) SPS can't be kept under VHO lighting.
Not true. While VHO's are no longer considered "state of the art" they are definately a usable lightning source that can produce good growth rates and excellent color of out of a good # of SPS species including lots of different types of Acropora.
3) You have to have a calcium reactor to keep SPS.
Again not true. 2 part solutions will work even on very large tanks. With the introduction of Randy's homemade recipe it also no longer costs an arm and a leg to do this. The cost is in fact comparable to a Ca reactor if not cheaper for many. I have also seen several nice mainly stony tanks supplimented with kalk alone. While this doesn't work for very heavily stocked tanks it can work well in ones that aren't.
RICHCONOLY
Myth:
T5s will save you on electricity and heat
Heat:
T5s produce the exact same amount of heat per watt as metal halide, but are significantly more difficult to remove the heat. This is for multiple reasons
1. Larger surface area means smaller temperature gradient. Its tougher to evacuate heat because they're not as far from room temperature
2. "Air restriction" : T5 fixtures are much larger than MH fixtures, and make getting proper air flow between the tank and fixture much more difficult. This in effect traps the heat in.
The whole perception of MH producing more heat is based on surface area. T5 bulbs have approximately 1w/inch. MH have 50+ w/inch.
Think of it this way: Which produces more heat? My 900 degree soldering iron, or you 150 degree hair dryer? Its your hair dryer.
Electricity:
Wattage is wattage. There are certain tank sizes that T5 works better for on a wattage basis (4x54w on a 55, vs 2x175w). There are certain tanks that it works worse for (18-24x39w on a 6x3x2 tank, vs 2x250/2x400w in lumenarcs)
Peter
Here's a misconception for you...
The most knowledgeable aquarists will have the best looking aquariums.
I've come to find that the "experts" will often have pretty basic setups, sometimes even to the point of being neglected. JUst because someone has the knowledge does not mean they do a good job with maintenance or even have the ability to set up a good aquascape. I do feel there is a certain art to reef aquariums and not everyone is good at creating a good aquascape. Sometimes it's just a matter of money, reefing is not a cheap hobby and all the knowledge in the world won't buy a large aquarium full of live rock and spectacular corals.
Capn
Another misconception:
Bigger and more powerful protein skimmers are what is needed to be successful. I have been told that you can't have a big enoughskimmer. Yet common sense tells me that there must be adverse affects to skimming to much. So what is the "skim er scoop " on protein skimmers?
Richconley
Another misconception: Corals eat phytoplankton.
They dont. Its too small. They eat the things that eat phytoplankton. (Zooplankton).
Any skimmer worth its salt is going to pull out DTs extremely quickly. Its really easy to skim out.
As to skimmer sizing, I wish. The ratings are all junk. Plus, its not just skimmer that decides nutrient load. Flow matters. Sponges help, refuges help, etc.
I'm kind of the oppinion that you buy a skimmer thats a little too big, and then just keep adding fish until your corals stop lightening up.
Zedar
Swing arm hydrometers are junk. You need a refractometer to measure SG. WRONG!!
I've owned a swing arm for years. On occasion i've suspected it to be inaccurate (because I've been told that they aren't reliable) so on those occasions I've compared it to a refractometer.
In every instance the swing arm was dead on.
Soak them in DI water to keep them clean, make sure theres no bubbles on the arm when you take a reading, and they will last a lifetime.
if I could ask a question in practicalities here:
This is what I was under the assumption(and many other reefers)
set up a refugium--use chaeto, deep sand bed rock rubble, cut the flow down to about 1/10 the main flow, feed it slowly back to the main tank via the sump but past any skimming
this will increase the amount and diversity of zooplankton and bacteria in the main tank--provide food for mandarine gobies ect that will only eat it.
if you want to address a nitrate level--then same situation only increase the flow drammatically so as to pass more water in contact with the cheato
This flow rate is at expense of the zooplankon population in the refug
finally feed phyto once a week to the zooplankon cause they eat it--not the main tank--esp lps and softies--they consume the zooplankton.
What is misconception about the above statements ?
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12106861#post12106861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
A group of geese
It's something us aging baby boomers do when out in the mall
"take a gander at that" "I did but will you look at that--not wearing one for sure":lol: :lol:
BTW it is a gaggle of geese
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12108067#post12108067 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLKTANG
that's for adding your misconception :lol:
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Youre right, I was getting my G words mixed up, I was thinking gaggle.
Paul B
Premium Member
Capn, Wow you put a lot of ink into re posting what was already there so not to be a total waste of time I read it again. 
I am beginning to realize that this entire hobby is a misconception. There are really very few complete truths.
Virtually everything here can be accomplished differently and have either better or worse end results.
There is a lot of talk about maintenance and I feel bad because I do almost none. I do change some water a few times a year and of course feed the animals and clean the glass but thats about all of my daily or even monthly maintenance. I guess I do clean the skimmer tube occasionally too. Most of my "maintenance" is not really maintenance because the tank runs itself but I like to experiment. I love to take pumps, ozonators, heaters, and auto feeders apart to try to tweek them for a better output. Sometimes this works sometimes it makes junk. I also love to build things like brine shrimp hatchers, rocks, feeders, lights or anything else I get an urge to or break. My wife really goes nuts when I crush my vitamin and mineral pills to either feed or inject into something.
if something dies and I don't know why I will disect it. It will still be dead but I usually will learn something.
I don't know what this has to do with misconceptions but I was cleaning the floor in my fish closet and I am waiting for the floor to dry, the computer was just sitting there so what the hell.
:dance:
I am beginning to realize that this entire hobby is a misconception. There are really very few complete truths.
Virtually everything here can be accomplished differently and have either better or worse end results.
There is a lot of talk about maintenance and I feel bad because I do almost none. I do change some water a few times a year and of course feed the animals and clean the glass but thats about all of my daily or even monthly maintenance. I guess I do clean the skimmer tube occasionally too. Most of my "maintenance" is not really maintenance because the tank runs itself but I like to experiment. I love to take pumps, ozonators, heaters, and auto feeders apart to try to tweek them for a better output. Sometimes this works sometimes it makes junk. I also love to build things like brine shrimp hatchers, rocks, feeders, lights or anything else I get an urge to or break. My wife really goes nuts when I crush my vitamin and mineral pills to either feed or inject into something.
if something dies and I don't know why I will disect it. It will still be dead but I usually will learn something.
I don't know what this has to do with misconceptions but I was cleaning the floor in my fish closet and I am waiting for the floor to dry, the computer was just sitting there so what the hell.
:dance:
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12110909#post12110909 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Capn, Wow you put a lot of ink into re posting what was already there so not to be a total waste of time I read it again.
I am beginning to realize that this entire hobby is a misconception. There are really very few complete truths.
Virtually everything here can be accomplished differently and have either better or worse end results.
There is a lot of talk about maintenance and I feel bad because I do almost none. I do change some water a few times a year and of course feed the animals and clean the glass but thats about all of my daily or even monthly maintenance. I guess I do clean the skimmer tube occasionally too. Most of my "maintenance" is not really maintenance because the tank runs itself but I like to experiment. I love to take pumps, ozonators, heaters, and auto feeders apart to try to tweek them for a better output. Sometimes this works sometimes it makes junk. I also love to build things like brine shrimp hatchers, rocks, feeders, lights or anything else I get an urge to or break. My wife really goes nuts when I crush my vitamin and mineral pills to either feed or inject into something.
if something dies and I don't know why I will disect it. It will still be dead but I usually will learn something.
I don't know what this has to do with misconceptions but I was cleaning the floor in my fish closet and I am waiting for the floor to dry, the computer was just sitting there so what the hell.
:dance:
good day Paul--nice to participate on a thread with you again:smokin:
Acutally you are the best one to post on this site being the vetran you are. I sure you could tell us what your tank and filtration consists of that has made it one of the longest lasting tanks I have heard of.
We discussed alot here before, from refugiums to uv sterilizers and don't with to rehash that--this is one of the reasons I tried to summarize the thread misconcepts already discussed.
So, what does your tank consist of as far as filtration issues ect that has made it so long lasting.
What new stuff in your opionion is useless in that the basics would cover it?
Paul B
Premium Member
Capn, your statement about refugiums to uv sterilizers amused me as I don't use either.
As you know I am as old school as you could be and most of my
argubly out dated methods would raise a lot of eyebrows as to the longivity of a tank.
There are many types of tanks with SPS keeping at the top. I do not keep these any more as I like LPS better.
My biggest problem is with DSBs. Yes I know I am in the vast minority. I don't really have a problem with DSBs as much as I have a problem with the lack of maintenance that can be accomplished if you have one. DSBs work very well, time will tell how long they will function. I personally believe that one of the most important things we can do to make a tank last forever is to clean it. I don't mean siphon out detritus which means almost nothing, I mean stir everything up, make a typhoon.
Of course with a DSB you can't do that but with all the other types of substrait you can. There is no better way to refresh a tank. In time all of the available nooks including the spaces under the corals will become impacted with detritus. Detritus consists of everything including dead bacteria, cast off shells of pods copepods and amphipods, urchin spines, bones of dead animals un eaten food etc. In time all of this stuff will impede water flow along with the circulation of oxygen. In the sea this does not happen. I have spent hundreds of hours underwater and when you lift a rock in the sea you do not get detritus. Typhoons take care of that. A tropical storm stirs up the sea bed much more than your canister filter could. I have seen brain corals as large as Volkswagons up side down after a storm. I have also seen Elk horn corals half the size of my house turned over and sea fans way up the side of a mountain. That takes care of the detritus.
My tank also gets this treatment and always has. I use a diatom filter every couple of months. On the outflow hose I put a small plastic funnel that reduces the hole to about 1/4". It becomes a powerful powerwasher. I direct it at the rock and you would be amazed at the amount of crud that comes out. Then I hit the gravel, all the way to the tank bottom as much as I can. I do this a few times and the filter takes it all out. Could you imagine what would be in my tank in almost 40 years if I never did this?
The next day I will see the numerous spaghetti worms climbing out all over the rock. The fish seem healthier and more vibrant.
That is the one thing that I feel is lacking in many tanks.
By the way I use a RUGF run very slow with a filter on the intake.
As for your original question, I think UV sterilizers are useless in a salt tank but I would use them in a goldfish pond.
Have a great day.
Paul
Aquarist007
New member
Thank you Paul
as my signature says---'experience is the best teacher'
I judge the long term success more then I do the methods used.
It is very easy today to advocate a method that seems to work great and start advocating it only to find out later that it wasn't the magic bullet of reef keeping that all the hype said it was.
That is why I appreciate discussions with reefers like yourself.
However some of your methods are what is still be advocated today and that is good to hear
I often advise people to once a week take a turkey baster to the live rock and substrate and lightly baste it. So this is not far off from what you did--I will now advocate the stirring up more of the substrate that you do.
An interesting question that comes up alot regarding cleaning the substrate between it and the glass-the part that can still receive adequate light to support bacteria in the substrate. I will have no problems cleaning mine good now--before I was so careful so as not to disturb the substrate
Do you advocate or have you rearranged your reef over the period of your tank so as to release alot of the accumulation under the live rock. Most people would not go that far in fear of disturbing the bacteria enough so it can't handle the existing bioload of fish we are carrying.
Do you run a protein skimmer?
as my signature says---'experience is the best teacher'
I judge the long term success more then I do the methods used.
It is very easy today to advocate a method that seems to work great and start advocating it only to find out later that it wasn't the magic bullet of reef keeping that all the hype said it was.
That is why I appreciate discussions with reefers like yourself.
However some of your methods are what is still be advocated today and that is good to hear
I often advise people to once a week take a turkey baster to the live rock and substrate and lightly baste it. So this is not far off from what you did--I will now advocate the stirring up more of the substrate that you do.
An interesting question that comes up alot regarding cleaning the substrate between it and the glass-the part that can still receive adequate light to support bacteria in the substrate. I will have no problems cleaning mine good now--before I was so careful so as not to disturb the substrate
Do you advocate or have you rearranged your reef over the period of your tank so as to release alot of the accumulation under the live rock. Most people would not go that far in fear of disturbing the bacteria enough so it can't handle the existing bioload of fish we are carrying.
Do you run a protein skimmer?
Paul B
Premium Member
Capn, I have no problem re arranging the rock and I have taken it all out a few times to re aquascape. If I had the time I would do it all the time but it is a pain especially if you have corals growing all over the place. I even removed the gravel twice to see what was growing under the UG plates. It was filled with tiny red tube worms.
I think it is the best thing for the tank but you can't do that if you have a DSB.
I always have used a skimmer. I have always built them myself. This is the one I am using.
The bucket under it is where the effluent from the skimmer goes or if the thing ever leaks. It has a homemade float switch in it which shuts down all the pumps if it fills.
I think it is the best thing for the tank but you can't do that if you have a DSB.
I always have used a skimmer. I have always built them myself. This is the one I am using.
The bucket under it is where the effluent from the skimmer goes or if the thing ever leaks. It has a homemade float switch in it which shuts down all the pumps if it fills.
Last edited:
Aquarist007
New member
awesome protein skimmer Paul. Do you not feel that running a skimmer of this magnitude allows you to do more upsetting of the reef rock and substrate without experiencing ammonia and nitrate spikes as the bacteria quickly tries to recycle their numbers?
Paul B
Premium Member
Capn a tank of this age does not experience any spikes of any type, of course I don't test for anything so I really can't be positive.
Stirring up a gravel substrait will not upset any bacteria. The bacteria are evenly dispersed throughout the gravel and since there is circulation in my gravel it makes no difference to the bacteria where they are unless they want a tan, then they go for the top layer.
:lol:
Again, you can't do this with a DSB.
Stirring up a gravel substrait will not upset any bacteria. The bacteria are evenly dispersed throughout the gravel and since there is circulation in my gravel it makes no difference to the bacteria where they are unless they want a tan, then they go for the top layer.
:lol:
Again, you can't do this with a DSB.
Aquarist007
New member
why not?--because there is little to no water circulation unless running that reverse underground filter
Aquarist007
New member
My sand bed varies between 3 and 5 inches. Is it safe to stir up the sand bed especially to scrape the area between the sandbed and glass---it gets pretty grungy if left for more then a week.
fred fishstone
Premium Member
Every couple of weeks I put a 100 micron filter bag on my drain line, and use a sea-squirt feeder (long skinny turkey baster) to stir up the shallow (about 1") sand bed. It really does seem to make the corals happy. Of course I have to blow off the rocks a few times after that, but then everything settles back to normal. I'm glad to hear that it may have a long-term benefit!
