Common Misconceptions In the Hobby

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11404775#post11404775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tydtran
Explain to me how the "coral reefs are dying" is a misconception.

Mind you this is only what I've read and so I don't know that they aren't dying, but they have died off before and so will probably die again. The ocean's reefs are so unfathomably vast that to say that it is all dying or going to die for ever would be like saying all the mammals are dying, or all of the plants are dying and will never exist again in any form. The reef will be there as long as any other part of natural life will be there, for as long as there is a place to be. It may become extinct in the sense that we know of it today, but it would be a misconception to think that it will all just disappear.
 
I disagree.
The history of life on earth is the history of extinction. Many species have disappeared never to be seen again. Think about the dinosaurs for example. The question is this: are coral reefs facing a potentially catastrophic, extinction level event or are they simply in a cyclical downturn from which they will eventually recover. I agree with you that this is an open question. My bias is towards the first possibility but I acknowledge that is insufficient data to really answer the question. However, I think calling it a misconception is a mistake because it minimizes the problem and leads to inaction. If we all believed it and did nothing, one day we may have the definitive data in hand and then it may just be too late to do anything.
 
my misconception is that my wife will someday say....

"Honey I want a 300 gallon in-wall aquarium with a lavish fish room just behind it"

In reality my wife will someday say....

"Honey I know you want a 300 gallon in-wall aquarium and that fish room thingy, but let's take the money and redo the kitchen... or no sex for you"
 
Though at first it may be easy to jump on Tu Ku and start attacking there is a valid point raised here in my opinion.

What do we measure as the baseline and "natural" level of biodiversity, extent of reefs etc. ?

Definitely these ecosystems have changed in the past and will continue to do so regardless of human activity.

However, modern reefs are facing more stressors which are changing more rapidly than in the past (most of the past). It's the rapidity of the envrionmental changes which probably face the biggest threat to these system.

Destroying all life is a tricky task and so certainly much will survive rapid change yet the effects of the change will be complex and widespread.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11406297#post11406297 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau
Though at first it may be easy to jump on Tu Ku and start attacking there is a valid point raised here in my opinion.

What do we measure as the baseline and "natural" level of biodiversity, extent of reefs etc. ?

Definitely these ecosystems have changed in the past and will continue to do so regardless of human activity.

However, modern reefs are facing more stressors which are changing more rapidly than in the past (most of the past). It's the rapidity of the envrionmental changes which probably face the biggest threat to these system.

Destroying all life is a tricky task and so certainly much will survive rapid change yet the effects of the change will be complex and widespread.

I think everyone on this length thread is discussing--not attacking
Attacking brings a negative and personal perspective to things. Nothing said on all 20 some pages has been personal or negative.
Personally I am glad Tu Ku has joined in:smokin: even though his entrance was so subtle:lol:

I disagree that there is not enough expertise on this thread to dispell some common misconceptions. One needs to look at the experince of alot of the contributors, the success they have had, and their occupations. There are marine biologists, and near to be biologists among us. There are authors , there are divers and there are those that possess high degrees of scientific skills.
If you believe in the process and importance of science period, let alone in this hobby then you have to give the advice and statments by these people a high level of trust.
I would hope that someone new to this thread would read it from the beginning and get a more global feel of this thread.
 
but let's take the money and redo the kitchen... or no sex for you"

Amazing, she must know my wife.

As for the reefs I have been lucky enough to dive on many of them for the last 40 years and I was very impressed, or depressed in some areas in the South Pacific where I saw and photographed many acres of dead tongue corals. I don't think Isaw any living ones. In the Caribbean it is more near shore reefs which are obviousely dying from run off of the Islands.
Besides that, most of the reefs that I have seen seem fairly healthy.
Of course, my tank looks pretty good even though I recently had a tankwide "global warming" and some massive pollution spills . I have not yet had a fuel spill or runoff from the wall but I am sure one is coming in the future. :lol:
 
I've been to reefs in the Pacific that were in great shape. I've been to reefs in the Pacific and Caribbean that were in terrible shape. I've also been to reefs in both oceans that looked great, but were really in terrible shape. This summer I even got to work on a reef in the Caribbean that was in bad shape but was actually recovering. So certainly the current health of reefs runs the full spectrum and not all are currently dying. However, the recent trend towards reef death has been pretty strong.

Over the last 30 years in the Jamaica there's been an 80% decline in coral cover. In most areas of the Caribbean studied coral diversity and cover has dropped, though not quite as dramatically. The dominant herbivores have become functionally extinct in many areas. Within a 10 year period 95-97% of the dominant species of coral there died off and nearly 20 years later still aren't showing significant recovery. For several reasons it's unlikely they ever will. That type of change has never happened before at least in the last 3,000 years that we can look at. The study of reef ecology in the Pacific is a lot younger, so it's harder to measure the trends there, but from what people have looked at there seem to be dramatic declines going on there too.

Ultimately the thing that spell disaster for all coral reefs is CO2. It's a 1-2 punch for reefs. Of course everyone has heard about how it contributes to warming, which increases bleaching. This isn't just theory either. Over the last 50 years there has been a measurable increase in average ocean temps in the tropics. Mass bleaching events used to be a decadal event but within the last 15 years or so have started creeping closer and closer to the biannual scale, which is just about the limit corals can take. Taken alone, this is something corals could probably adapt to fairly quickly and there is evidence that they've started. However, probably the bigger threat from CO2 is the effect of driving the ocean's pH down. As CO2 dissolves in the water it forms carbonic acid and lowers the pH and the saturation point of Ca in the water, which makes it less energetically favorable for corals and other animals that form aragonite to form their shells. Again, this has already had a measurable effect. This threat is a lot harder to adapt to, especially when the corals are already sapped for energy due to bleaching and other threats.

If the current trend of increasing CO2 continues, within the next 50 years there will be nowhere in the ocean that's favorable for reef formation. That's often reported as "reefs will be gone within 50 years" which isn't the case. Increasing temps are pushing corals toward the poles, while pH and Ca are pushing them toward the equator. When the two boundaries meet corals will still be around and still growing. However that's when they'll enter what's called a "fall behind" state. That means that they aren't growing fast enough to keep up with disturbances that knock them back. Essentially what will happen is that as colonies die off they won't be replaced by new coral like they have been in the recent past, but they'll be replaced by something like algae or seagrass. This is already the trend in many places. This happened before several million years ago and resulted in a few million years with no reefs at all. The good news here is that we still have about 10 years or so to make a change before we reach the point of no return.

When you talk about changes to the reef in the geologic past it's important to keep in mind a few things. Corals haven't always been the dominant reef forming organisms. For a while it was sponges, then clams, then corals. When one group couldn't keep up, another group rose to dominance, so it's not a fair assumption that corals will adapt and keep on trucking. They have done it in the past, (like 125,000 years ago) and have even dealt with changes occurring at the rate they're occurring now. The big difference though was that then they didn't have so many stressors working synergisticly.

What do I think the near future hold for reefs? Based on what we know of the past and current trends it looks like within my career I'll be documenting the end of coral reefs as we know them. Corals will fizzle out and lose to green algae as the dominant reef organisms. Because the algae don't significantly contribute to the reef structure the reefs themselves will eventually erode and subside and we'll enter another gap of a few million years with no reef forming organisms. Corals as a group will still survive, but they won't be reef formers.
 
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a very good article--thanks Greenbean---- very troublesome but at the same time a bit of optimism.

What do you see the role of our hobby in all of this--will it contribute to the preservation of the worlds coral species.
 
This certainly takes us into the realm of informed opinion again rather than hard fact, but if the current trends in the hobby continue I don't believe it will provide any real conservation value. In a best case scenario I think it's simply a way to preserve corals to show our grandchildren what we messed up for them.

For several reason, the animals in the hobby are essentially dead ends for conservation. They aren't suitable for restoring reefs. One big reason is the possibility of introduced pathogen prevents animals from being suitable for reintroduction once they've entered the trade and especially after they've been kept in mixed tanks.

Another big reason is the lack of diversity. You really can't understate the importance of diversity in preserving ecosystems. Species diversity is important in preserving ecosystem function, but the trouble is that we really don't have a grasp on what the minimum level of diversity is to preserve that functionality. In the hobby we only see a tiny fraction of the diversity of the reefs and of that tiny fraction, the majority can't be propagated long-term in captivity. If we were to lose our supply of wild specimens in the near future the species diversity in the hobby would drop drastically. It's extremely unlikely that we would be able to re-establish a functioning ecosystem with even the current level of diversity available in the hobby, much less a reduced level.

Another diversity problem is the lack of genetic diversity. One big thing that has to be considered in long-term conservation plans is genetic diversity, which is important for adapting to changes. It's going to be especially important in the near future. As a general rule you need to start with at least 50 genetically distinct, reproductive individuals to preserve enough genetic diversity to give a species long term chances of survival. There are probably few species in the hobby that we can say that for since there's so much asexual propagation done and so much inbreeding with captive fish. There may be thousands of a given species, but most can be traced back to only a few original individuals.

The really big question for reintroduction though is if conditions get so bad that wild corals die off where do we reintroduce the captive ones?

There's also been a huge push within the hobby over the past decade or so to reduce the impact on wild reefs by propagating corals at home. The problem is that this approach doesn't address the economics behind collecting. It removes our demand from the reefs but doesn't replace it with anything that produces equal value for the collectors. There are plenty of more distructive industries like coral mining that are ready to fill that void. We need to replace current collecting practices with equally valuable industries that use the reef more responsibly.

Also, besides our direct impacts we're huge contributors to environmental change. We use huge amounts of electricity to run our tanks. Even though some people like myself can say that all of our electricity comes from nuclear or hydro, we still keep animals and rock that's been flown thousands of miles on one of the most polluting forms of transportation we have.

Ultimately if the hobby wants to have any conservation value we need to make a few big changes:
1) Close the lifecycle of the animals we keep. That means sexual reproduction from large starting populations to preserve diversity.
2) Reduce our indirect impact by more efficient equipment, better power sources, and cleaner shipping methods.
3) Promote in situ aquaculture. We need to get away from the idea that if we stop demanding goods from the reef people will stop collecting them. Instead we need to provide a market for animals that are produced sustainably while still giving the collectors jobs.
 
Great points, Greenbean.

I'd like to reinforce the point you made about how corals [geologically speaking] are not the only reef-building organism. My reading on the subject really suprised me, as I never expected clams+such to be a primary reef-building [and most abundant] creature at various periods of Earth's history... yet there are many of millions of years where `reefs' meant huge agglomerations of shellfish and the like. [not stony corals]

Sure, maybe there will be `reefs' in a few generations ... but to any of us [esp divers] ---- giant mounds of shellfish are not what I would ever label reef. [nor algae beds]
As far as I'm concerned, corals are `reefs' ... even though anyone who knows oceanic geology/history would certainly correct my misguided impression. [Heck, reef-building organisms created/used calcite at one period, not the CaCO3 that we know + love]


I also fear the long-term ramifications of CO2 % changes is by far the most concerning issue with any global system changes that are occuring. If the pH drops, calcification will halt and a vast array of ocean-creatures will be affected.

That, personally, is very concerning as despite how humans may do, the loss of a wide range of ocean life is not an ok outcome IMO.
 
How about starfish/urchins/sponges will die if exposed to air?

Not sure if this is true or not, but...

I have a few different types of sponge that came in on my live rock. They have been out of water numerous times in tank moves, re-aquascaping, and general reorganizing. Doesnt seem to have affected these sponges at all.

I have four urchins which have also been exposed to air more than a few times.... moving them if they are in the way, swapping them between tanks, etc. I also sometimes forget about them when doing a water change and leave them high and dry for a few minutes. Sometimes they spawn after this, which indicates to me they might not like it... but it doesnt kill them.

And lastly... I bought a marble linkia starfish about 3 weeks ago. In a water change a week ago, I didnt notice he was on the back of a powerhead and he was out of water for about 20 minutes. Halfway through when I noticed him I poured some tank water on him to keep him wet. He has been acting normally in the week since then, but I know it can take a while for problems to show up in starfish, so I am reserving judgment on this one for now. Also, it seems common for there to be starfish in the touch tanks of public aquariums, which surely results in some air exposure of the stars there.

Does anyone have further information or experiences with any of this?
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12106543#post12106543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
How about starfish/urchins/sponges will die if exposed to water?

Not sure if this is true or not, but...

I have a few different types of sponge that came in on my live rock. They have been out of water numerous times in tank moves, re-aquascaping, and general reorganizing. Doesnt seem to have affected these sponges at all.

I have four urchins which have also been exposed to water more than a few times.... moving them if they are in the way, swapping them between tanks, etc. I also sometimes forget about them when doing a water change and leave them high and dry for a few minutes. Sometimes they spawn after this, which indicates to me they might not like it... but it doesnt kill them.

And lastly... I bought a marble linkia starfish about 3 weeks ago. In a water change a week ago, I didnt notice he was on the back of a powerhead and he was out of water for about 20 minutes. Halfway through when I noticed him I poured some tank water on him to keep him wet. He has been acting normally in the week since then, but I know it can take a while for problems to show up in starfish, so I am reserving judgment on this one for now. Also, it seems common for there to be starfish in the touch tanks of public aquariums, which surely results in some air exposure of the stars there.

Does anyone have further information or experiences with any of this?
you mean exposed to air?:confused:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12106576#post12106576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvilE
you mean exposed to air?:confused:

I don't see why not corals growing near the surface of the reefs are exposed to hot sun and air when the tides go out --its part of their daily life and they survive quite well
 
I will try and recap this thread a bit since it has been awhile

THESE ARE DISCUSSED ON PAGES 1-5

In the first post Peter listed the following misconceptions:
Common Misconceptions In the Hobby
A lot of things seem to come up on the forums that are a result of recycled information that has been passed down through the years. I want to start this thread in hopes that this information will start to be widely accepted and known and hopefully dispell some of those "old hat" ways of thinking in the hobby. Some of these have mostly gone by the wayside and some are till in full swing and commonly believed in the hobby. Please feel free to add some of your own, add to my explanations, or even dispute my contributions.

1.) You should keep your PH at or between 7.8 and 8.3.

While those are acceptable levels this simply doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I've seen claims that the PH on Indonesian reefs (where most of the corals we keep will be found) is on average between 8.4 and 8.5. With readings often being higher and rarely below 8.0.

Conclusion: There is nothing to worry about if you PH is reading above the famed 8.3 mark. In fact, consider youself one of the lucky ones. If you're reading below 8.0 seriously consider betweer gas exchange and dripping kalkwasser to keep your PH higher in the acceptable range which should probably be more along the lines of 8.1-8.8. Maintaining a higher PH in closed aquaria is probably a good idea because of the greater amount of waste and acids that we encounter.


2.) Maintaining a KH of 8 is a good idea because it's close to what natural seawater is.

This one kind of goes along with the above suggestions. 8 dKH is perfectly acceptable, but it doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle room in out "dirty" aquariums. I've observed stress in various organisms when KH starts to drop much below 8. On the flipside there was a time when people commonly maintained a dKH as high as 18 in this hobby without any apparent stress from tank inhabitants.

Conclusion: While I wouldn't suggest striving for 18 dKH aiming for a little higher than natural seawater is a good idea because of the volatility of closed systems. I typically suggest people aim for 10-12 dKH. If you're using something that automatically replaces buffers in your system this is less crucial.


3.) 75-77 degrees is a good temperature for a reef tank or tropical fish only tank.

The majority of our corals come from corals and fish come from waters that range in temperature anywhere from 76-90 degrees with average temps in the low 80's. There are certainly creatures that are an exception such as those from Japan, Australia, and deeper waters which are more usesd to temperatures a little lower.

Conclusion: The old magic 76 degree mark has little merit and I'm not sure how it ever came to be in the first place. Maintaining temperatures in the low 80's is probably most natural and will suit most fish/coral available in the industry. Thankfully this has become more accepted in recent years.


4.) It's very important to keep temperatures stable.

This one pops up a lot on the forums. As you may have gathered from the above commentary, the temperature on your average reef isn't really stable at all. Temperatures can shift greatly with a simple shift of the tides or currents. There are also shifts between day and night that are close to 5 degrees on average.

Conclusion: Stop worrying about your daily swing in temperature from your lights heating the water. There's no need to go buy expensive chillers or controllers to always maintain the same temperature. In addition to being pretty natural the temperature swing may be good for your aquarium inhabitants and make them less likely to succumb should you have a more major temperature swing. In closed aquaria I wouldn't suggest testing the limits of this, but if your swings are under 5 degrees from day to night I wouldn't worry much.


5.) Any detectable amount of nitrates is bad in a reef aquarium.

While elevated levels are certainly a concern (20 ppm+) and I do feel it's best to maintain very low levels I think the toxicity of nitrates is highly exaggerated in this hobby.

Conclusion: If you're having problems zeroing out you nitrate tests don't fret too much. However, keep an eye on your nitrates levels and make sure they don't build up to levels that can start causing problems.

6.) Zoanthids are prefer low to moderate levels and flow, and they like dirty water.

As a group Zoanthids are very diverse. They can be found on the reef in pristine water conditions with incredible bright light and heavy flow. They can also be found at greater depths with lower light levels and less flow. Areas with turbid virtually stagnant water; check. Areas with huge waves crashing into them frequently being exposed to air, check. Dirtier water that may even be from sewage rinoff; check. Tidal pools with hugely varying conditions; check.

Conclusion: What's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. That's of course with the asumption that the goose and gander are both zoanthids. What the heck is a gander anyhow?


7.) SPS corals require huge amounts of light and flow.

Much like Zoanthids, SPS corals are a very diverse group. They are found at a wide range of depths in a wide range of conditions.

Conclusion: Just because you have an SPS coral does not mean it will appreciate being blasted with light and thousands of gallons of water per hour. Do a little research on your specific coral to get a better grasp of what conditions it might do best in. A good rule of thumb is that more delicate looking specimens come from areas with lower lighting and flow that would be experienced on the upper reef. More robust looking growth forms would probably appreciate being blasted with light and flow.


8.) The colors of corals are a result of the zooxanthellae which grows in their tissue.

While this is true to a degree, zooxanthellae is typically a shade of brown (think autumn colors). The bright colors often seen in photosynthetic organisms are the result of various proteins. Some of these colors are genetic, some are freak occurences that are related to light intensity levels.

Conclusion: A coral being brown isn't necessarily a bad thing, at least it has plenty of it's zooxanthellae symbiant. However, if you have ome crazy blue coral it is absolutely not because you have some freaky blue zooxanthellae growing in it.

greenbean took the ball from there:

9.) Animal X is a filter feeder. It's great for your tank.

Filter feeding is just a way to say that an animal's food is suspended in the water column. Hobbyists hear the word "filter" and make the erroneous assumption that these animals will improve their water quality. Like all animals, filter feeders turn their food into waste, which gets peed or pooped out. They turn often harmless particulates into dissolved nutrients (ammonia being the chief one). With the exception of those with zooxanthellae to uptake it, you're always going to end up with more dissolved nitrogen coming out than went in (poorer water quality).



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I do believe in keeping the temperature stable. Your comparison of the temperature of an aquarium to that of the ocean isn't really a sound argument. Once things start to go south, we are not afforded the luxury of having a gadzillion gallons of water volume and thus a temperature rise in the ocean will not equal to a possible disaster that could happen in your reef if you let the temperature creeps past a certain point.
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Whether in the ocean or in captivity, stable temperatures don't afford you any wider a margin of error in the event of a problem. The physiological tolerance of the animals is still the same in captivity or the wild. All stability does is narrow that window of tolerance.

10.) My cleaner fish/shrimp cured or helped my fish get rid of ich.

There is no evidence that any cleaner species eats ich in any real number, either in the wild or captivity. It's never been found in the gut of cleaners in the wild and in lab tests cleaners have never been shown to make a significant difference on parasite loads. The ich parasite is under the skin of the host and without harming the host fish, the cleaner only has access to the parasite for about the 5 minutes that it takes for the parasite to burrow through. Because that 5 minutes occurs in the wee hours of the morning, cleaners will never naturally encounter the parasite during that time. In the lab, even when cleaners were induced to clean during the period when the parasite was burrowing in, they ate very few of them and made no significant difference in the parasite loads of the fish. The white spots associated with ich are only damaged skin due to the parasite underneath and guess what a large part of the diet of most cleaners is.... dead skin and fish mucus. Picking off the spots doesn't cure the fish.

11.) A UV sterilizer will kill everything good or bad in your tank and significantly reduce disease, food, or filtering capacity.

Even when UV sterilizers have near 100% kill rates of the organisms passing through, in recirculating systems they don't make a huge impact on the overall populations. They are limited by the fact that the breeding population in the system is always much larger than the number of individuals being killed. They can also only kill those organisms that are in the water column. There are numerous experiments confirming that the use of UV sterilizers on recirculating systems either has no significant impact on parasite populations or on infection rates.

I just keep thinking of more and more.

12.) Mariculture and aquaculture are different methods of farming corals.

Aquaculture is underwater agriculture. Mariculture is simply marine aquaculture. In the context of the hobby, since all of our animals are marine, they are synonyms. Neither one implies anything about the culture method used or where it's done. To tell where the culturing is done you use in situ (in the original location) or ex situ (away from the origin) or sometimes in vitro (in captivity). To talk about the actual method used you talk about the intensity level. Extensive culture is when you have almost no control over the growth. Leaving frags on the reef to grow is an example of extensive culture. Semi- intensive is when you have some control, such as growing corals in a greenhouse but using NSW and sunlight. Intensive is when you have control over almost everything, like in your home frag tank.

13.) Trading frags helps save the reefs.

Reducing the demand for wild corals may help some, but it won't make a very big dent in the amount of corals being taken from the reef. As large as it has gotten, the live coral trade is still small compared to other uses for the reef such as construction. Regardless of the demand from the hobby, there will always be more demand for corals than supply and the collectors will always need jobs. To truly reduce the amount of corals being taken, economic alternatives to harvesting from the reef have to be offered and simply cutting our demand doesn't do that. Eco-tourism and responsible aquaculture are two possibilities.

And again...

14.) Inverts are short lived, so expect to replace your cleaning crew regularly.

It's hard to generalize about the lifespan of inverts since they make up the vast majority of animals on the planet. Some, like octopi and most sea slugs only make it a year or two. Many popular members of cleanup crews can live decades to centuries though. Some of the animals we keep are even theoretically immortal, meaning they don't grow old. They only die when something kills them.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12106576#post12106576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvilE
you mean exposed to air?:confused:

Yes I am an idiot. I was in a rush because I typed out the whole post earlier and could have sworn I posted it and saw it on this thread, but it was gone again tonight so I had to repost.
 
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