Converting my 180 to FO SW

[CL8869]

Hey guys, new to this forum. Been doing FW fish keeping for about ten years now. I am changing my stuff around and will be converting my 180 gallon to SW and just rearranging my 150 to keep my FW setup still rocking. I want to do a FO tank, not interested in corals or reefs. Here is what I have planned.

BRS 4 Stage Value Plus Water Saver 150GPD RO/DI unit will be here friday.
Instant Ocean salt is incoming as well.
I have powerheads and heaters and large buckets to store the water and add the salt and pump to the tank.

I am trying to figure out substrate right now. The dude at the LFS told me to get the Caribsea Arag-Alive sand? It seems overly pricy if it does not work as he said it would. Do you guys know if this stuff actually works and cuts the cycle to almost nothing or is it a hoax? IF you did not use that stuff, what is the cheaper alternative to just a white substrate? Which brands/etc are good to use?

Filtration. For right now I will be using three large Aquatop canister filters, however I am going to be removing two of those and am going to be turning my spare 29G tank into a sump system.

I use LED lighting, so that is taken care of. And my heaters are Ehiem Jagers which are both on a temp controller.

The tank is not drilled for overflows and I don't have intentions of doing that, just going to use a HOB type overflow. I have used those in the past and liked them.

As far as cycling goes, does using the live sand and the "bacteria in the bottle" like BioSpira actually work? Could I add that crap and some fish and let her rip with maybe half the livestock I have planned then add more as it fully settles?

Now comes some of the harder stuff... I am totally in the dark on stocking the tank. Here is what I want, and then from there I need suggestions on what else to go with.

Must haves if they can work:

Coral Beauty Angelfish
Flame Angelfish (If possible)
Snowflake Eel
Yellow Hawaian Tang
Pinkface Wrasse
Maroon Clowns (How many can I have?)
Stars and Stripes puffer (unless it will get too big, what other puffers are good? )

Would like to have a blue tang also, but hear that they fight other tangs?

So that is where I am at. Basically my issues are substrate choice and livestock options are killing me.

Thanks in advance!

 

[anbosu]

I have heard the bacteria in the bottle can work, although I have never used it. Dry sand and live sand work basically the same.

You don't mention live rock, but for the dwarf angels you will want some mature live rock for the angels to graze on if possible. You should be able to do both of those in a 180.

2 maroon clowns would be the max. I would suggest a dogface puffer instead of the S&S, it stays a much better size for a 180.

 

[CL8869]

Ok great. So the live wet Arag-alive sand is a waste?

What if I dont want live rock?

 

[anbosu]

At best the advantage is minimal.

You don't have to have live rock, but it usually makes life a little easier. If you have really good mechanical filtration you don't typically need it. I wouldn't try it without a high performing skimmer.

 

[golferbud101691]

Dr tims one and only is the best bacteria in a bottle product I've found. I used it and dry sand. I had the tank cycled in 14 days with fish food.

 

[CL8869]

Awesome, thanks!

Any input on the stocking options?

 

[rjjr1963]

I used Dr. Tims and six weeks later my tank still isn't cycled.

What will be your primary bacterial filter if you don't use live rock?

 

[frey]

I would just do bare bottom (easier to keep the tank clean) and spend that cash on a few pieces of live rock which will much more benefit your fish. If you desire a substrate I would steer clear of crushed coral or shells. Almost all experiences I have had with crushed coral or shells is that the tank has uncontrollable algae issues after a while and its really hard to keep clean. For the fish if you are going to keep 2 dwarf angels make sure you add them at the same time. Also I would only keep 2 maroon clowns, they tend to be the most aggressive of all clowns. I would add the clowns, tang and puffer last at they will be most likely the dominate fish in the tank. Also for the bacteria I wouldn't waist the money. Nature does it for you. Set the tank up, get salinity and heat correct, put in live rock, substrate, a few bits of fish food and then let it cycle. When ammonia is 0 start with 2 or 3 fish and let them do their thing for about 4 weeks. After that if no issues should be able to start adding the rest.

 

[CL8869]

Going to be running two large canister filters and a 29G sump system. I don't want live rock, and I do want a substrate.

Thanks!

 

[CL8869]

Ok so maybe I do want live rock. Been doing a lot of reading and that seems to be the way to go. BUT I can't afford to do 180 lbs of it, nor do I want that much of it. What if I bought say 20 pounds of it? Would that be OK? Do I HAVE to have that much of it in there?

I am getting the parts together this week to turn my spare 29 into a proper sump, and have been reading that canisters are not really good with salt tanks.. So would a 29g sump system doing say 6-800 GPH, a couple power heads inside the tank for water flow, and a very small amount of live rock work out? And I was looking around and it looks like Aragonite sand would be good for what I am doing, not the live stuff just the normal cheaper non live stuff.

Am I on the right track here?

Would 20lbs of live rock cycle a 180 if I toss in a piece of shrimp or something?

 

[rjjr1963]

Ok so maybe I do want live rock. Been doing a lot of reading and that seems to be the way to go. BUT I can't afford to do 180 lbs of it, nor do I want that much of it. What if I bought say 20 pounds of it? Would that be OK? Do I HAVE to have that much of it in there?

I am getting the parts together this week to turn my spare 29 into a proper sump, and have been reading that canisters are not really good with salt tanks.. So would a 29g sump system doing say 6-800 GPH, a couple power heads inside the tank for water flow, and a very small amount of live rock work out? And I was looking around and it looks like Aragonite sand would be good for what I am doing, not the live stuff just the normal cheaper non live stuff.

Am I on the right track here?

Would 20lbs of live rock cycle a 180 if I toss in a piece of shrimp or something?

20# isn't that much. It also depends on what type of rock you get. Pukani is very light and porous so you don't need as much. I'm starting my 180 with about 100# of Pukani. Your tank will cycle with 20# but you might only be able to add a few small fish. You may be able to add more fish over time but you're going to be limited by the amount of bacteria in the tank.

You might check out a product called marinepure. It's a very porous rock like material that you can put in your sump to host bacteria.

The flow through the sump is fine but you're going to need 6,000 or 7,000 gph of flow in the tank from the powerheads.

Good luck.

 

[CL8869]

Ok cool, I will look into that rock.

I do have two 3200 GPH power heads on the way to move water around.

What about 20# of live rock then a bunch of base rock for that to be seeded by the live rock?

 

[rjjr1963]

Ok cool, I will look into that rock.

I do have two 3200 GPH power heads on the way to move water around.

What about 20# of live rock then a bunch of base rock for that to be seeded by the live rock?

Yes, that would work too. Will the live rock you're getting actually be live and wet?

 

[Martini5788]

Converting my 180 to FO SW

Ok cool, I will look into that rock.

I do have two 3200 GPH power heads on the way to move water around.

What about 20# of live rock then a bunch of base rock for that to be seeded by the live rock?

Yes that will work. If you want to limit the liverock in the display tank for aesthetic reasons, that's fine, but you will need to have some biomedia to supplement. Liverock is the main filtration in sw tanks and it also provides hiding places and territory for the fish which is important. I have fw tanks as well and one of the main differences in the fish behavior is that saltwater fish HIDE at night, in the rocks, fw fish just kind of float there, or atleast mine do. If I were you, I would do this:
1. 20 lbs liverock, 80-100 lbs of dry rock, dry sand( Rinse the ever loving crap out of it until there is no silt left. Must be aragonite, not pool filter or play sand that we use in fw tanks)
1. 20 lbs of liverock, 50 lbs of dry rock, marine pure block 8x8x4, dry sand

Also, I would rethink a 29 for a sump for a 180, it may not provide enough space leftover in case of a power outage for the water to overflow into the sump and then you could have a flood. Which sucks. Really bad. Had it happen to me when a tank exploded. Also on a weekly basis when I leave the rodi on and forget about it and then flood the kitchen I have used biospira and dr tims and the dr tims did absolutely nothing. Pointless and more expensive. Get biospira

 

[rjjr1963]

Every inch of water in a 180 is about 7 gallons. Keep your returns very close to the top of the water so they don't siphon much water back into the sump.

 

[CL8869]

OK I did a LOT of reading late last night, and honestly... I don't really like the look of live rock and I don't think any of the work involved in using it is for me. At least not right now at this time.

However, I did not know about them hiding at night. I was planning on having decor in the tank, it was not going to just be the fish. But now that I know that I will make more of an aquascape that has hiding spots they can fit into etc. Similar to how my African Cichlids behave with territory and whatnot.

This 29 is just a bare tank right now, I am getting some glass cut and I will make the divider walls for it. I can make those walls as high or low as I want, so if I don't let them go up past about 20G worth of space and keep the return as high as possible and the overflow box as high as possible worst case scenario it would just fill up the 29G to the top right? When Petco/Petsmart do their $1 a gallon sale again I will be picking up a 55G and sticking that under the 180 to use as a sump system. But they only run that sale a couple times a year and I am not going to go spend 130 on that 55 when I can get them for 55 if I just wait a bit.

Plus then when I upgrade that sump to a 55 I can stick this 29 sump under my 150g Africans tank.

So if I am NOT doing live rock, what do you suggest? Just the sump system with a chamber completely filled with bio balls and the water pipe coming down into it with a filter sock as the first stage?

I apologize if you guys feel like you are going in circles with me, my mind is just a disaster right now. So much into this compared to fresh which is why I want to go simple as possible to start out and then if down the road I want some LR I can add it in.

 

[Martini5788]

OK I did a LOT of reading late last night, and honestly... I don't really like the look of live rock and I don't think any of the work involved in using it is for me. At least not right now at this time.

However, I did not know about them hiding at night. I was planning on having decor in the tank, it was not going to just be the fish. But now that I know that I will make more of an aquascape that has hiding spots they can fit into etc. Similar to how my African Cichlids behave with territory and whatnot.

This 29 is just a bare tank right now, I am getting some glass cut and I will make the divider walls for it. I can make those walls as high or low as I want, so if I don't let them go up past about 20G worth of space and keep the return as high as possible and the overflow box as high as possible worst case scenario it would just fill up the 29G to the top right? When Petco/Petsmart do their $1 a gallon sale again I will be picking up a 55G and sticking that under the 180 to use as a sump system. But they only run that sale a couple times a year and I am not going to go spend 130 on that 55 when I can get them for 55 if I just wait a bit.

Plus then when I upgrade that sump to a 55 I can stick this 29 sump under my 150g Africans tank.

So if I am NOT doing live rock, what do you suggest? Just the sump system with a chamber completely filled with bio balls and the water pipe coming down into it with a filter sock as the first stage?

I apologize if you guys feel like you are going in circles with me, my mind is just a disaster right now. So much into this compared to fresh which is why I want to go simple as possible to start out and then if down the road I want some LR I can add it in.

I'm gonna be honest with you, deciding NOT to go with liverock is probably the most complicated way to do it. If you absolutely refuse to do it, then get marine pure blocks(2-3) and, along with other biomedia. Filter sock and skimmer should be in the first chamber. Then I would do the blocks in the next one. Avoid bio balls, they collect crap and then you have to clean them all the time. Also, other fake decorations that you put it will collect algae and quickly, so be prepared for a lot of scrubbing. Do you have a picture of what exactly
You are wanting this to look like?
Worst case scenario with the sump is that it overflows soaking your floor and your surge protectors for all the equipment get wet, spark, and burn your house down.
In addition, I really think that you should spend a few months really doing a bunch of research on saltwater aquariums, because it is a totally different animal than freshwater systems and the way you are going about it could present some major issues( aggression, filtration,water quality problems). I would also not even bother with a 29 gallon sump. Just wait until the sale and in that time do some serious reading

 

[Martini5788]

What exactly do you mean the work involved with using liverock?

 

[frankv702]

You'll definitely want to have live rock for your fish to hide in. Salt water is super corrosive so you have to be careful with the type of fake decor you put in there or it might start leaching stuff you don't want into the water. If you want minimal live rock, you can look into the previously mentioned marinepure bio blocks. I just put an 8 x 8 x 4 block in my Refugium. I have about 200 lbs of rock in my 180 display and want to see if I can eventually take out about 30lbs once the block is seeded.

 

[CL8869]

Ok called Petco. Looks like that sale starts Sunday! If the person was actually in the know and it is legit, I will be picking up a 55 gallon on sunday to use as a sump.

Already ordered all the stuff needed to convert it, will get the glass cut Monday and will silicone it all in place.

Ordered one of those 8X8X4 Bio blocks also. Man that thing is awesome.

I know you are all apparently against this, but yeah I am not doing LR. I called and actual LR in the only local store to me is 7 bucks a pound and I just don't like the look of it honestly. But I will put decor in there for the fish to hide in, it just wont be painted cheap stuff.

Can I put old dead corals as decor? The LFS has that stuff in the tank, they are just there for show they aren't alive.

The fish list is totally debatable, I am not really SOLID on anything besides I need that Coral Beauty Angel, and the wife wants a Dogface Puffer. Anything from that point on is up in the air.