Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)
- Thread starter nineball
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nineball
Active member
I think that we would all agree that women in this hobby are grossly underrepresented, so if a night out in the Bentley increases the participation in the forum then its a good thing. If someone has to take the initiative then it might as well be me.
As far as tank tours go you can count on an invitation as an established member of this esteemed community. Mr. Wilson will be there to provide autographed copies of his book. It will be titled "So You Think You Can Fish Canada".
Thanks for your continuing support!
Peter
venom550pm
Member
Buy a book, get an autograph, then a tour! Sounds like a nice trip to Oakville to me
Are you gonna set up the corale like they do at theme parks? :lmao:
nineball
Active member
nineball
Active member
Aquarist007
New member
IMO people get caught up on the calcium thing for corals. They want levels close to 500 ppm or better.
Randy has mentioned previously that any over 420 calcium is a waste and this is what he keeps his tanks at.
Alot can be said about keeping the parameters all in acceptable ranges for each
calcium 390-420 ppm
alkalinity 8-11 dkH
magnesium 1300-1400 ppm
I have also found that the tanks that get the weekly maintenance and monitoring seem to do the best
I use h2oceanic salt mix for heavy sps tanks and this really keeps those parameters in line.
I also think most people don't realize that corals feed on the following
detrius and fish poop
bacteria
zooplankton
produce their own through photosynthesis
nineball
Active member
Buy a book, get an autograph, then a tour! Sounds like a nice trip to Oakville to me
I think I will be able to answer that after we decide the four styles.
so far we have Style (Grand Master)
Spirit Mountain (Chingchai)
Canyon (?)
(?) (?)
(?) (?)
We need to complete the list soon.
Peter
Mr. Wilson makes some good points however in my experience having certain levels go too low can be a recipe for RTN (rapid tissue necrosis) as well. As he mentions, shoot for NSW levels and you can't go wrong. It's really about getting the proper balance and maintaining it and this can be achieved quite easliy by dosing. I have actually never used a calcium reactor but have been dosing Randy's 2 part for years. I use Dow flake (ca), Dow - mag flake (mag chloride) & I buy my mag sulfate (epsom salts) & sodium bicarbonate (Arm&Hammer) at Costco.
:fish1:
My system is only 700 gal so you may find with your larger system that a combination of dosing in conjunction with a ca reactor works best. Lots to think about.
I gave up on my Ca reactor due to the constant fluctuation of the drip rate resulting in instability of alkalinity, it was anything BUT "set and forget", I changed to dosing with BRS dosers and 40g containers which last 6 months between fills, much better, alk is steady and I don't touch it
Rybren
Well-known member
There's a great 7-part article on what corals eat by Eric Borneman in Reef Keeping. It starts here...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php
Well worth the read.
BTW, I'm a 50+, grey-haired, balding guy. If I change my name from Jerry to Jerrie and wear a dress, can I get a tank tour and ride in the Bently? I'd even be willing to shave the moustache. :lol2:
SaraB
Coral Killer
LOL, these posts made my morning!!! Thank's Peter, we can all play in the DSB sandbox together ... after the ride in the Bentley of course :lol2:
I'm about a 1/3 of the way through the thread now and I'm blown away by the precise planning and execution so far! Can't wait to finish this up and get caught up over the weekend!
nineball
Active member
In one sense these two approaches to maintaining water quality both share the same fundamental which appears to be universally accepted and that is aiming for NSW levels. I know that seems obvious to many in this thread but my objective observation is that there are very very few points of agreement in this domain. So when I discover a principle that is true today and by all accounts will be true tomorrow that is very significant to me. I am trying to understand and build a solid foundation that would form the basis of a framework for understanding in this hobby that goes beyond relying on accidental or anecdotal observations.
I know it sounds silly, but if we can all agree that NSW levels ought to be the target solution for overall water quality pursuits then there is something to begin building a set of principles on. No matter how obvious or simple this may sound to most of you, this is a milestone for me. This is a universal truth I can rely on. NSW values in an aquarium are a requisite for success.
I will return occasionally to this theme when something like this happens just to add more discipline to the science part of our hobby.
I assume, based on previous comments in this thread that NSW levels are somewhat easier to attain in a larger water volume simply because one misstep in a smaller tank has immediate consequences whereas larger tanks have more room for correction..........true?
There is another observation that I have about water quality based on conversations in this and other threads on the forum and that is that there are two general approaches to measuring water quality for aquariums.
The most common and I suspect most favoured is a manual testing that relies on some form of human interpretation based on colour and a type of litmus test. I gather that quality and freshness of the testing materials also affect the observation and outcome.
The second approach gaining some measure of acceptance is a mechanical or technological probe that measures and interprets the analysis reducing the requirement for human interpretation of the results. I also have observed that much of this equipment is subject to error if it is not properly calibrated and maintained. I also have observed that the calibration process of these instruments involves a reliance on the old fashioned tried and true method of the litmus test.
I apologize if my terminology is somewhat loose as much of this is new to me and I'd rather make a mistake trying to figure this out than be reluctant because I might look like the fool that I really am.
Because of my background, I have a natural inclination to lean on technology to take as much of my inexperience out of the equation as possible. It's not that I have drunk the CSI Miami koolaid either. I know it's not that simple. It does seem to me however that measuring water quality ought to be something that has matured and that this hobby can take advantage of. So where is it? Is it simply a matter of expense?
Peter
nineball
Active member
No Jerry, in fact if you did all that you'd have to look at the tank from outside, not be allowed in the elevator accompanied and probably be picked up in a '59 Volkswagon running on reserve!!!!
Thanks for the link, between you and Mr. Wilson I'm getting very little sleep these days.
Peter
nineball
Active member
Thank you Sara, as noted you will certainly be a welcome member of our growing tribe even if we seem somewhat unbalanced at times.
Peter
Rybren
Well-known member
Damn! Guess I'll bring the dress back to Zellers.
nineball
Active member
Dress from Zellers?????is that all this means to you Jerry.......Zellers???
Peter
p.s. we gotta be careful here Jerry, there's a bunch of school kids following this thread.........
Hello Peter,
Your interpretation on testing water parameters and dosing additives seems to be accurate in my opinion (not that it means much :hmm5.
In regards to Shawn's provided suggestions for the water testing equipment and additives I have to agree. I personally am a bit more relaxed when it comes to alot of the additive type portions though. I have always been of the school of thought that calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are the essentials and with doing regular water changes with a high grade salt (which reef crystals is) and adding frozen and fresh foods for the fish in the aquarium it will provide adequate levels in the aquarium.
I note that iodine is coming into popularity again and if you have a test kit for it then by all means supplement it. I just have always been personally concerned about people "that add seventeen different additives twice a week" because there local fish store ironically carries seventeen additives that are "essential" to keep an aquarium.
I personally have used both calcium reactors and 2 part additives with differing degrees of sucess. If you had of asked me which I would of choosen five years ago between 2 part or calcium reactor I would say hands down a calcium reactor. However through trials and tribulations of attempting to keep one of these units stable long term I haven't been very fortunate. This may be due in part to the fact that I didn't utilize a ph probe within the reactor itself. I just found that like Elliot had pointed out I was always fighting with my alkalinity to maintain it below 11. I also had an underlying suspicion that since my reactor was only a single chamber unit there was co2 coming into the system and that was the reason I had a somewhat suppressed ph 7.8 - 8 on average and had to deal with an unusual amount of hair algae.
I am now a true believer in 2 part dosing....its kind of humourous as that is what I began using when I first started this hobby but I always thought for some reason that the "grass would be greener" with the reactor and do some incredible things for the system that I never honestly noted.
I believe that aquariums like Greggs that use 2 part dosing not to mention the fact that he manually dosed it for many years before using a dosing pump shows that there are many ways to have incredible results in this hobby.
There is even an comment in The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 where Charles Delbeek and Julian Sprung comment that you can certainly maintain adequate calcium and alkalinity levels be making up a small concentrated kalkwasser mix
and pouring it slowly into the aquarium several times a day.
Since you already have the calcium reactor in place I think you should just use it and see how it functions for you and your system.
I really enjoy John Tullocks theory about this hobby as he stated something along the lines of "we need to focus more on biology and less on technology" for keeping reef aquariums.
Patrick
Your interpretation on testing water parameters and dosing additives seems to be accurate in my opinion (not that it means much :hmm5
.In regards to Shawn's provided suggestions for the water testing equipment and additives I have to agree. I personally am a bit more relaxed when it comes to alot of the additive type portions though. I have always been of the school of thought that calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are the essentials and with doing regular water changes with a high grade salt (which reef crystals is) and adding frozen and fresh foods for the fish in the aquarium it will provide adequate levels in the aquarium.
I note that iodine is coming into popularity again and if you have a test kit for it then by all means supplement it. I just have always been personally concerned about people "that add seventeen different additives twice a week" because there local fish store ironically carries seventeen additives that are "essential" to keep an aquarium.
I personally have used both calcium reactors and 2 part additives with differing degrees of sucess. If you had of asked me which I would of choosen five years ago between 2 part or calcium reactor I would say hands down a calcium reactor. However through trials and tribulations of attempting to keep one of these units stable long term I haven't been very fortunate. This may be due in part to the fact that I didn't utilize a ph probe within the reactor itself. I just found that like Elliot had pointed out I was always fighting with my alkalinity to maintain it below 11. I also had an underlying suspicion that since my reactor was only a single chamber unit there was co2 coming into the system and that was the reason I had a somewhat suppressed ph 7.8 - 8 on average and had to deal with an unusual amount of hair algae.
I am now a true believer in 2 part dosing....its kind of humourous as that is what I began using when I first started this hobby but I always thought for some reason that the "grass would be greener" with the reactor and do some incredible things for the system that I never honestly noted.
I believe that aquariums like Greggs that use 2 part dosing not to mention the fact that he manually dosed it for many years before using a dosing pump shows that there are many ways to have incredible results in this hobby.
There is even an comment in The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 where Charles Delbeek and Julian Sprung comment that you can certainly maintain adequate calcium and alkalinity levels be making up a small concentrated kalkwasser mix
and pouring it slowly into the aquarium several times a day.
Since you already have the calcium reactor in place I think you should just use it and see how it functions for you and your system.
I really enjoy John Tullocks theory about this hobby as he stated something along the lines of "we need to focus more on biology and less on technology" for keeping reef aquariums.
Patrick
Rybren
Well-known member
Well, I could have gone to a higher end store, but then I wouldn't have had any money left for frags.
Noted.
nineball
Active member
Hello Peter,
Your interpretation on testing water parameters and dosing additives seems to be accurate in my opinion (not that it means much :hmm5
In regards to Shawn's provided suggestions for the water testing equipment and additives I have to agree. I personally am a bit more relaxed when it comes to alot of the additive type portions though. I have always been of the school of thought that calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are the essentials and with doing regular water changes with a high grade salt (which reef crystals is) and adding frozen and fresh foods for the fish in the aquarium it will provide adequate levels in the aquarium.
I note that iodine is coming into popularity again and if you have a test kit for it then by all means supplement it. I just have always been personally concerned about people "that add seventeen different additives twice a week" because there local fish store ironically carries seventeen additives that are "essential" to keep an aquarium.
I personally have used both calcium reactors and 2 part additives with differing degrees of sucess. If you had of asked me which I would of choosen five years ago between 2 part or calcium reactor I would say hands down a calcium reactor. However through trials and tribulations of attempting to keep one of these units stable long term I haven't been very fortunate. This may be due in part to the fact that I didn't utilize a ph probe within the reactor itself. I just found that like Elliot had pointed out I was always fighting with my alkalinity to maintain it below 11. I also had an underlying suspicion that since my reactor was only a single chamber unit there was co2 coming into the system and that was the reason I had a somewhat suppressed ph 7.8 - 8 on average and had to deal with an unusual amount of hair algae.
I am now a true believer in 2 part dosing....its kind of humourous as that is what I began using when I first started this hobby but I always thought for some reason that the "grass would be greener" with the reactor and do some incredible things for the system that I never honestly noted.
I believe that aquariums like Greggs that use 2 part dosing not to mention the fact that he manually dosed it for many years before using a dosing pump shows that there are many ways to have incredible results in this hobby.
There is even an comment in The Reef Aquarium Volume 3 where Charles Delbeek and Julian Sprung comment that you can certainly maintain adequate calcium and alkalinity levels be making up a small concentrated kalkwasser mix
and pouring it slowly into the aquarium several times a day.
Since you already have the calcium reactor in place I think you should just use it and see how it functions for you and your system.
I really enjoy John Tullocks theory about this hobby as he stated something along the lines of "we need to focus more on biology and less on technology" for keeping reef aquariums.
Patrick
Patrick, thanks a ton for your input. I think your position is where the bulk of experience and wisdom sits in this hobby. I suspect it is also where I will end up. It is this kind of education that I find most useful that grows from real world experience and practice. Your tolerance and respect for my simple questions are a hallmark of my experience in this thread. Thank you for taking the time.
Peter
Hal
New member
Peter,
There's a third general approach to measuring water quality that can be used alone or in conjunction with the the two that you mention: observe the inhabitants of your tank. With experience you'll calibrate your eye to recognize what is "normal" and when things don't look quite right. For example, the xenia has stopped pulsing, or the polyps on your gorgonian aren't extending quite as far. In most instances this behaviour will correlate to some aspect of your tank's environment (basic water quality, shifted par from aging lights, changes in waterflow, external contaminants, etc.) Often the best thing that you can do for your tank is to sit and observe it for 20 minutes. After all, that is what you bought the tank for anyway.
On a somewhat related matter, I haven't seen it said here, so I'll say it: don't add any supplements that you don't test for.
There's a third general approach to measuring water quality that can be used alone or in conjunction with the the two that you mention: observe the inhabitants of your tank. With experience you'll calibrate your eye to recognize what is "normal" and when things don't look quite right. For example, the xenia has stopped pulsing, or the polyps on your gorgonian aren't extending quite as far. In most instances this behaviour will correlate to some aspect of your tank's environment (basic water quality, shifted par from aging lights, changes in waterflow, external contaminants, etc.) Often the best thing that you can do for your tank is to sit and observe it for 20 minutes. After all, that is what you bought the tank for anyway.
On a somewhat related matter, I haven't seen it said here, so I'll say it: don't add any supplements that you don't test for.
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