Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method

[thebicyclecafe]

Depends on the concentration on the bottle. But at most household concentrations you can use the same amounts. Let's use 6%. Bleach is roughly 1.09 grams/mL. 95% of sodium hypochlorite is available chlorine, so here goes. If you have 1mL of 6% sodium hypochlorite, you have 1.09 g/mL x 6% x 95% = 0.062g available chlorine, or 62mg. Thus, if you add it to 1L of water you are functionally at the quoted 60mg/L. So, 1ml/L, which is the typical concentration for disinfection of culture medium. Ammonia binders... if there is ammonia in the water you want to bind it, regardless of chlorine. The fact that chlorine will bond with it to form chloramine doesn't change anything since once dechlroinated it just releases the bond and you have free ammonia. I have not read or heard of an ammonia binder reacting with sodium thiosulfate negatively. In fact Seachem's prime is both. I would however dechlorinate with straight sodium thiosulfate first since you could mix it to a known concentration. The water will most likely have ammonia in it since the tank would have little means of biological filtration. Although... one could theoretically soak 4 sponge filters for a few weeks in an established sump and place one into the QT when each transfer is made.

Anyone volunteer to do the conversion for this to household bleach per gallon? I'm not interested in re-using the water, but I would be interested in adding bleach to the tank after the fish is removed, keep the tank running with bleach-water for 24h, drain, rinse and dry for 24h, followed by re-setup.

For me, part of the benefit of 100% water change every three days is keeping the ammonia down in an uncycled tank. How does ammonia/ammonia binders fit in to this discussion as far as the water re-use is concerned? Does either one react with bleach of sodium thiosulfate negatively? Like I said I'm not interested in re-using the water, but something else to tink about for those who are.

 

[thebicyclecafe]

Is common knowledge in the drinking water industry. For example:

http://www.cdc.gov/safewater/chlorination-byproducts.html

However, to answer your question, and you still want to go this route (which I personally wouldn't do), 60 mg/L of chlorine for 24 hours is documented as successful for disinfection of all Cryptocaryon irritans life stages.

Thanks. There is a section mentioning that if organic matter can be filtered out, it may reduce the possibility of THMs forming. If I do ever go this route it is helpful to know to filter first. I am thinking down to 25 microns.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Depends on the concentration on the bottle. But at most household concentrations you can use the same amounts. Let's use 6%. Bleach is roughly 1.09 grams/mL. 95% of sodium hypochlorite is available chlorine, so here goes. If you have 1mL of 6% sodium hypochlorite, you have 1.09 g/mL x 6% x 95% = 0.062g available chlorine, or 62mg. Thus, if you add it to 1L of water you are functionally at the quoted 60mg/L. So, 1ml/L, which is the typical concentration for disinfection of culture medium. Ammonia binders... if there is ammonia in the water you want to bind it, regardless of chlorine. The fact that chlorine will bond with it to form chloramine doesn't change anything since once dechlroinated it just releases the bond and you have free ammonia. I have not read or heard of an ammonia binder reacting with sodium thiosulfate negatively. In fact Seachem's prime is both. I would however dechlorinate with straight sodium thiosulfate first since you could mix it to a known concentration. The water will most likely have ammonia in it since the tank would have little means of biological filtration. Although... one could theoretically soak 4 sponge filters for a few weeks in an established sump and place one into the QT when each transfer is made.

I wonder if you have treated the tank with prime to control ammonia while the fish was in it, and you add bleach once the fish is removed, is it possible the prime you had previously dosed will render the bleach ineffective and you will not get proper sterilization?

 

[tmz]

Anyone done TTM on a leopard wrasse? I can put a dish of sand in each tank, but I usually transfer in the morning before lights are on - I'm thinking I will have to dig him out of the sand for transfer, but is there an easier or less stressful way?


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I did leopard a few years ago. I've also done several other burying wrasses I I turn the lights on and provide some food . The wrasses come out ; I remove the dish of sand ;then draw the water down to about 2 inches before capture. I never dug one out of the sand ;seems like it would be difficult to do without stressing it or transferring some sand with the slime web some use at night.

 

[joecc]

Sorry if this has been covered already, but should I use a new air-stone and new tubing with each transfer or will fully submerging and rinsing the previously used ones is bleach solution be sufficient for avoiding cross contamination? I assume the tubing at least, should be fine

 

[zeebies]

Sorry if this has been covered already, but should I use a new air-stone and new tubing with each transfer or will fully submerging and rinsing the previously used ones is bleach solution be sufficient for avoiding cross contamination? I assume the tubing at least, should be fine

Always best to do new. Cheap insurance. Peace of mind.

 

[Soluent1]

Ttm

Ttm

I have a 150 gallon tank that I was stocking with fish. It was fully cycled. I added some clown gobies and, shortly thereafter, noticed ick on one of them. I took out all fish. I borrowed four 10 gallon tanks from my friendly lfs and started doing doing the tank transfers. After 12 days, I placed them in a 30 gallon tank I set up for quarantine. I saw that the small yellow clown goby had either ick or something else. Skin had white on it with raised flakes. I assume it is not one of the diseases that takes fish very rapidly, e.g. Brook. I immediately started TTM again, drained the quarantine, let it dry for a few days, and added salt water again.

I always used aged (24 hours) fresh saltwater. Tanks and pvc elbows were dried with paper towels and left dry for at least 24 hours, usually 48. New air tubing and air stones were used with every transfer. I am now using five gallon buckets, as I think they are easier to handle and dry. I have a leopard wrasse and have placed a new bowl of new sand in each transfer. He is by himself in a bucket. I remove the bowl before the leopard settles in for the night and do the transfers in the evening as that is most reliable for me to be around. All my fish are three inches or less.

I am not unfamiliar with sterile technique and can't think of where I went wrong the first time. I transferred at exactly the same time each day. I am breathless with anticipation to see if the yellow clown still appears diseased. I think I will not immediately transfer it into the quarantine tank after TTM. I will put into some glass container to take a good look at it before placing it in quarantine tank with the others.

Any thoughts at where I may have gone wrong?

Since I am starting up essentially a new quarantine tank, any suggestions?
It has a biowheel filtration in it (I know not the best, but it is what I have) and a skimmer. Additionally, I will put a mp10 in it and some starter bacteria. Some bioballs maybe....old school, I know. Comments, criticisms?

Will post picture of clown goby if still appeare diseased. If I can figure out how.

To complicate matters, 75 days fallow would be Valentine's Day. Well, I saw a magnifica anemone that looked healthy and I bit. This puts me at about March10th. This particular lfs has been around for at least 30 years and is as trustworthy as any in the area. The tank is anemone and clown fish only and has been so for some time. Clearly, there is no copper. I intend to ask if it shares water with any other tank. Assuming it doesn't, would this be considered low risk for ich. Most of the clowns here come from a local breeder that has a rather large one-way setup.

Also, how do I quarantine a mandarin? How do I feed it?

I know this is a lot of questions and I do appreciate any answers.

 

[pfan151]

I have a 150 gallon tank that I was stocking with fish. It was fully cycled. I added some clown gobies and, shortly thereafter, noticed ick on one of them. I took out all fish. I borrowed four 10 gallon tanks from my friendly lfs and started doing doing the tank transfers. After 12 days, I placed them in a 30 gallon tank I set up for quarantine. I saw that the small yellow clown goby had either ick or something else. Skin had white on it with raised flakes. I assume it is not one of the diseases that takes fish very rapidly, e.g. Brook. I immediately started TTM again, drained the quarantine, let it dry for a few days, and added salt water again.

I always used aged (24 hours) fresh saltwater. Tanks and pvc elbows were dried with paper towels and left dry for at least 24 hours, usually 48. New air tubing and air stones were used with every transfer. I am now using five gallon buckets, as I think they are easier to handle and dry. I have a leopard wrasse and have placed a new bowl of new sand in each transfer. He is by himself in a bucket. I remove the bowl before the leopard settles in for the night and do the transfers in the evening as that is most reliable for me to be around. All my fish are three inches or less.

I am not unfamiliar with sterile technique and can't think of where I went wrong the first time. I transferred at exactly the same time each day. I am breathless with anticipation to see if the yellow clown still appears diseased. I think I will not immediately transfer it into the quarantine tank after TTM. I will put into some glass container to take a good look at it before placing it in quarantine tank with the others.

Any thoughts at where I may have gone wrong?

Since I am starting up essentially a new quarantine tank, any suggestions?
It has a biowheel filtration in it (I know not the best, but it is what I have) and a skimmer. Additionally, I will put a mp10 in it and some starter bacteria. Some bioballs maybe....old school, I know. Comments, criticisms?

Will post picture of clown goby if still appeare diseased. If I can figure out how.

To complicate matters, 75 days fallow would be Valentine's Day. Well, I saw a magnifica anemone that looked healthy and I bit. This puts me at about March10th. This particular lfs has been around for at least 30 years and is as trustworthy as any in the area. The tank is anemone and clown fish only and has been so for some time. Clearly, there is no copper. I intend to ask if it shares water with any other tank. Assuming it doesn't, would this be considered low risk for ich. Most of the clowns here come from a local breeder that has a rather large one-way setup.

Also, how do I quarantine a mandarin? How do I feed it?

I know this is a lot of questions and I do appreciate any answers.

I wouldn't worry about adding the anemone as long as you don't add the rock it is currently on with it.

 

[Soluent1]

I wouldn't worry about adding the anemone as long as you don't add the rock it is currently on with it.

I didn't! Thanks for the response.

 

[Soluent1]

Bump.

 

[UncleSalt]

Okay - I have my own questions here!

Just ordered a new Regal Angel from LiveAquaria so I want to make sure I do this right. My DT appears to be pristine, so I don't want to risk anything.

He's going into a 5G bucket...

Do I use 100% CLEAN water with no biomedia/bacteria/anything?

I do want to add a few drops of Prime in there right?

I transfer every 4th morning, and then do Prazi after. Correct?

 

[pfan151]

Transfer every 72 hrs or earlier. I do every 48hrs so I don't have to worry about ammonia. You can use either fresh mixed salt water (I do) or your display water. Some may be against display tank water but I figure if ich is in the display the fish will ultimately be going into then you're out of luck anyway. I use fresh clams to get the regals eating and they foul the water up pretty quickly. That is why I like 48hr transfers.

 

[UncleSalt]

Transfer every 72 hrs or earlier. I do every 48hrs so I don't have to worry about ammonia. You can use either fresh mixed salt water (I do) or your display water. Some may be against display tank water but I figure if ich is in the display the fish will ultimately be going into then you're out of luck anyway. I use fresh clams to get the regals eating and they foul the water up pretty quickly. That is why I like 48hr transfers.

so again - freshly made salt water (mixed 24 hours) with absolutely no good bacteria in it - is how it's supposed to be done correct? I don't want to kill the little guy!

Also, with Prazipro, do it after Transfer 2 and 4.....do I just leave PP in the bucket the whole time until the next transfer?

 

[pfan151]

Yea, no bacteria in the water. You are changing the water before ammonia can build up. Some add prime on the second day if going the full 72 hours between transfers


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[EddieJ]

so again - freshly made salt water (mixed 24 hours) with absolutely no good bacteria in it - is how it's supposed to be done correct? I don't want to kill the little guy!

Also, with Prazipro, do it after Transfer 2 and 4.....do I just leave PP in the bucket the whole time until the next transfer?

I prefer a couple of 10 gallon tanks, they are cheap , over a 5 gallon bucket as you can see the fish much better .. fresh saltwater mixed 12 hours and have an air stone going in it. start at like 26-28 PPT for your salinity.. So much better for fish when they arrive. Remember fish are relived, not stressed when you put them in lower salinity. Temperature match the tanks for the transfers. Remember you can't use prime with prazipro.. check the salinity of the water in the bag when the fish arrives , and make sure yours is lower..float by till temp matches and Release him into tank..

 

[UncleSalt]

Yea, no bacteria in the water. You are changing the water before ammonia can build up. Some add prime on the second day if going the full 72 hours between transfers


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I prefer a couple of 10 gallon tanks, they are cheap , over a 5 gallon bucket as you can see the fish much better .. fresh saltwater mixed 12 hours and have an air stone going in it. start at like 26-28 PPT for your salinity.. So much better for fish when they arrive. Remember fish are relived, not stressed when you put them in lower salinity. Temperature match the tanks for the transfers. Remember you can't use prime with prazipro.. check the salinity of the water in the bag when the fish arrives , and make sure yours is lower..float by till temp matches and Release him into tank..

Awesome! Thank you both! I have a 20g long i'll likely use - as well as a 29tall, may just use both of those to be safe.

 

[EddieJ]

Awesome! Thank you both! I have a 20g long i'll likely use - as well as a 29tall, may just use both of those to be safe.

More volume = less change for ammonia build up as well. The way I do it is I do the 4 tank transfers, then 2 weeks in the final QT tank. This way I can do prazi when they hit the final QT tank, so I dose prazi and then large water change after 48 hours.. wait the 5-6 days and dose Prazi again. So if you have your fish in the QT process for 30 days or so, that gives it time in case there are other diseases / parasites that will show their ugly face. Also, I slowly raise the salinity over the 2 weeks in the final QT to match display.


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[ncaldwell]

I've done a purple tang, achilles tang, and currently a marine betta using 5 gallon buckets with some pipe in the bottom. All separately of course but I've had no problems with ammonia build up waiting the 72 hours. Much easier than dealing with larger aquariums. Especially considering you have to clean them out every couple days. Remember the more difficult something is the less likely you are to do it on time. But after doing 10 fish the achilles is still clear of ich so I figure if the achilles is good then this really does work well

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[EddieJ]

I've done a purple tang, achilles tang, and currently a marine betta using 5 gallon buckets with some pipe in the bottom. All separately of course but I've had no problems with ammonia build up waiting the 72 hours. Much easier than dealing with larger aquariums. Especially considering you have to clean them out every couple days. Remember the more difficult something is the less likely you are to do it on time. But after doing 10 fish the achilles is still clear of ich so I figure if the achilles is good then this really does work well

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Cleaning is really easy, I just spray everything down with a 10 percent bleach solution, rinse , drain and let dry for 24 hours.. throw away airstone and tubing.. the 24 hour dry (completely dry) is the magic bullet.. that kills all.. very simple .. I definitely agree make it as easy as possible..


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[UncleSalt]

Please confirm for me here as my Regal has arrived!

Day 1 (March 1): fish entered tank A at 4pm
Day 2 Add Prime
Day 3
Day 4 (March 4): transfer fish to tank B at 630am (I leave for work at 7am)
Day 5 Add Prime + Prazipro
Day 6
Day 7 (March 8): transfer fish to tank A at 630am
Day 8 Add Prime
Day 9
Day 10 (March 12): transfer fish to tank B at 630am
Day 11 Add Prime + Prazipro
Day 12 (March 14): transfer fish to QT at 5pm