Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method

[EddieJ]

Please confirm for me here as my Regal has arrived!

Day 1 (March 1): fish entered tank A at 4pm

Day 2 Add Prime

Day 3

Day 4 (March 4): transfer fish to tank B at 630am (I leave for work at 7am)

Day 5 Add Prime + Prazipro

Day 6

Day 7 (March 8): transfer fish to tank A at 630am

Day 8 Add Prime

Day 9

Day 10 (March 12): transfer fish to tank B at 630am

Day 11 Add Prime + Prazipro

Day 12 (March 14): transfer fish to QT at 5pm

Sounds like a solid plan... what salinity was the water the fish was shipped ?


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[UncleSalt]

Sounds like a solid plan... what salinity was the water the fish was shipped ?


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Water was shipped to me at 1.023

 

[UncleSalt]

Just to confirm, I can use Prime with Prazipro?

 

[EddieJ]

Just to confirm, I can use Prime with Prazipro?

Somehow a neuron in my brain recalled that you can't, but after researching it I believe you can. Must have mixed that info up with copper, which can't be used with Prime. Myself I do Prazi in the QT tank which they will stay for two weeks after the TTM. I just read an article detailing how biofilm can totally reduce the effectiveness of Prazi, and that if you keep an established QT, that each time you dose Prazi the bacteria will eliminate the Prazi even within a few hours. So it really sound like Prazi during the TTM with fresh water/tank is the way to go.


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[tmz]

Okay - I have my own questions here!

Just ordered a new Regal Angel from LiveAquaria so I want to make sure I do this right. My DT appears to be pristine, so I don't want to risk anything.

He's going into a 5G bucket...

A bit small: I usually use two ten gallon tanks for the process.

Do I use 100% CLEAN water with no biomedia/bacteria/anything?

Newly mixed salt water allowed to mix for a few hours preferably overnight . Using old water brings in organics without the bacteria to reduce any ammonia that forms from them since the bacteria live on surface.

Cycled media from a non infested tank is fine

I do want to add a few drops of Prime in there right?

Might not need it ; I almost never do; not bad as a precauiton though. it takes a bit of time for ammonia to form and you may not see any in 72 hours.

I transfer every 4th morning, and then do Prazi after. Correct?

Transfer every 72 hours; this interval over 4 transfers syncs wtih the parasite's life cycle to ensure none are transferred in the fish. Longer or shorter intervals are less effective.

 

[pfan151]

Why would intervals shorter than 72 hours be less effective?

 

[tmz]

It increases the probability of transferring a parasite in the trophont stage which typically stay in the fish for 3 to seven days and forming tomonts (cysts ) when they leave which typically " hatch" (releasing theronts to reinfect the fish) within 3 to 28 days with some taking as long as 72 days.

The proven method is three day intervals . If you wish you could chart out the expected times for each of the 3 life stages and lay it out against the transfer intervals . Just search crpto caryon irratans ;you'll find plenty pf research and information.

The objective of it all is to leave all the crytocaryon irritans in all phases behind via the tank transfer method.

 

[pfan151]

It increases the probability of transferring a parasite in the trophont stage which typically stay in the fish for 3 to seven days and forming tomonts (cysts ) when they leave which typically " hatch" (releasing theronts to reinfect the fish) within 3 to 28 days with some taking as long as 72 days.

The proven method is three day intervals . If you wish you could chart out the expected times for each of the 3 life stages and lay it out against the transfer intervals . Just search crpto caryon irratans ;you'll find plenty pf research and information.

The objective of it all is to leave all the crytocaryon irritans in all phases behind via the tank transfer method.

I understand about the 3 up to 72 days to hatch, but in not sure how transfering every 48 hrs could make it more likely for them to be reinfected. Even if the parasite dropped off the fish the second it was placed in a new tank the fish would be out of there before the 72 hour mark.

 

[EddieJ]

I understand about the 3 up to 72 days to hatch, but in not sure how transfering every 48 hrs could make it more likely for them to be reinfected. Even if the parasite dropped off the fish the second it was placed in a new tank the fish would be out of there before the 72 hour mark.

I would think transfers every 2 days works to, just make sure it's still 12 days (which means 6 transfers). The main key is NEVER more than 72 hours between transfers. But you need to make sure Everything is DRY for at least 24 hours, more is better.,so every two days makes that a little tighter.


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[tmz]

I agree 12 days is the duration required.

Further, why do 6 transfers when 4 is sufficient? Each transfer carries some risk to the fish ,extra work , the possibility of adding a theront or tomont during transfers and less time for drying and settling newly mixed salt water and temperature if only two tanks are being used .

 

[pfan151]

Why do 6 transfers when 4 is sufficient? Each transfer carries some risk to the fish ,extra work and the possibililty of adding a theront or tomont and less time for drying if only two tanks are being used .However, if you want to work your own variation have at it.

I just do two days because most of the fish I have been doing TTM on are pretty delicate fish that will only eat frozen food or fresh clams (butterflies, regal angels). That makes the water pretty nasty pretty quick.


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[btb72]

Couple questions. I've never done ttm before and making sure I ha e everything in order. Can you do multiple fish in same 10g buckets. For wrasses that need to sleeep in sand use it but throw out after wards. Do most people do ttm and then qt to check for other diseases or qt before hand? Also if a net isn't advised how do you move the fish without taking water with it.

 

[tmz]

Couple questions. I've never done ttm before and making sure I ha e everything in order.

Can you do multiple fish in same 10g buckets.

Yes, if they are small, compatible in terms of aggression and have resting places like pieces of pvc pipe. Personally I prefer ten gallon tanks or sometimes 20 gallon tanks. I try not to buy too many fish at once.



For wrasses that need to sleeep in sand use it but throw out after wards.

Yes, a small bowl of sand does well;discard it and replace it with each transfer transfer .




Do most people do ttm and then qt to check for other diseases or qt before hand?

Yes,some skip that step but I usually put them in a cycled qt tank for an extra two weeks to 3 three weeks after the transfer treatment to observe for maldies other than ick .

Also if a net isn't advised how do you move the fish without taking water with it.

Some use their gloved hand gently ; I usually use a fine mesh net(brine shrimp net). It's easier if everything is taken out of the tank including most of the water before catching the fish.



This thread of mine includes a lot of details and may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...tion+and+preventative+treatment+tank+transfer

 

[btb72]

Thanks tom

 

[tmz]

You are welcome. Good luck.

 

[Heuristic]

What about introducing something like Chaeto to a tank? How do you make sure that it does not have ICH?

 

[tmz]

Not a likely source unless it was kept in an infested tank or system where a cyst might settle on it. To be certain you'd have to keep it in a separate fishless tank for 72 days.

 

[Heuristic]

Not a likely source unless it was kept in an infested tank or system where a cyst might settle on it. To be certain you'd have to keep it in a separate fishless tank for 72 days.

Why wouldn't a TTM method on Chaeto work the same way as fish? Would it carry too much water to the next tank to be effective?


Also, why wouldn't a long freshwater dip work with Chaeto?

 

[Breadman03]

Why wouldn't a TTM method on Chaeto work the same way as fish? Would it carry too much water to the next tank to be effective?





Also, why wouldn't a long freshwater dip work with Chaeto?

Transferring the fish is based on the shortest time it takes for the ich to drop off, encyst, then hatch and reinfect the fish, combined with the maximum time the parasite stays on the fish. That is why we transfer the fish after no more than 72 hours in a tank. That is the least amount of time for the parasite to drop off, then reinfect.

The 14 day minimum process is because we know that no parasites will remain in the fish from the beginning of the process, and we have transferred the fish before any new parasites could attach.

Ich can stay encysted on a surface for up to 72 days, so chaeto could have a parasite encysted on it for up to 72 days after it was removed from an infected system.

 

[Heuristic]

Transferring the fish is based on the shortest time it takes for the ich to drop off, encyst, then hatch and reinfect the fish, combined with the maximum time the parasite stays on the fish. That is why we transfer the fish after no more than 72 hours in a tank. That is the least amount of time for the parasite to drop off, then reinfect.

The 14 day minimum process is because we know that no parasites will remain in the fish from the beginning of the process, and we have transferred the fish before any new parasites could attach.

Ich can stay encysted on a surface for up to 72 days, so chaeto could have a parasite encysted on it for up to 72 days after it was removed from an infected system.

Couldn't you just Jack up the temperature to the point that the cyst dies while not killing the chaeto? I'm assuming the algae can take a much higher temp.

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