Dinoflagellates.

[jason2459]

I would possibly even suggest turning off an ATS, macro fuge, algae reactors or any kind of algae growth areas. The ATS became an absolute playground and refuge for my dinos for this. Its the one place I knew to find any active ones though their count became a lot less there as well.

I would do that and not run any GAC, Ozone, UV, H2O2, or any other kind of oxidizing agents or methods.

I would turn down the skimmer so its not removing any water that needs replenished with fresh saltwater but keeps aerating the water.

I would stop water changes and dosing of at least iron products even removing GFO. And limit dosing to just Ca, Mg, and alk if required.

Cut down on carbon dosing if doing so or even stop all together.

Basically anything that will reduce or remove the metronidazole or feed or help phototrophs or heterotrophs as dinos could be either depending on the type.

I would have added the filter socks from the very beginning. But not blown off surfaces daily or at the beginning as I saw an increased amount of encysted dinos. This could drive them under the substrate where medication may not be as effective. Maybe blow of surfaces 2-3 times a week. Just a thought on that. Toxins may be a concern and not blowing off the rocks daily may actually help reduce that chance so the dino doesn't feel as stressed or threatened? Don't know.

Otherwise 10 days was probably a good idea and didn't see or haven't seen yet any major negative reactions.

 

[Squidmotron]

So does anyone have an explanation for why metro would work?

 

[DNA]

Has anyone come across something concrete about how the poisons persist in our tanks?
Do they keep building up since our tank water gets replaced really slowly or do they degrade naturally?
We have no way of measuring this and poison tends to be bad for coral health.

If they can persist through boiling I'd bet they build up.

 

[Livingjewels]

The boiling process for me has got rid of them, my tank has now got back to normality.

The water is now able to go back to frequent water changes without the fear of dino explosions.

I think it's good doing the current regime of experiments to see if you can beat them, but a week of boiling batches of water for me is the way to go..if you really want to beat them.

Even if there are toxins or poisons present, I've had no adverse effect on any tank livestock..so if any are present, each week they being discharged from my tank by frequent water changes..

I've been dino free now for a good six weeks..and my tank now looks amazing again.

It ll take a while but I'm sure when you guys get fed up, you may want to give my method a go you'll get your tank back to how it should be and you'll be able to enjoy the reef keeping hobby again.

All the best

Paul

 

[DNA]

Breathing the steam can land you in a hospital.
Do NOT boil dinos.

What did you do exactly?

 

[Livingjewels]

Steam may be a caution yes I agree. Where I was exposed to it I noticed a bit of a runny nose; the water was boiled mainly out in the open so I didn't become over exposed to it, most went to atmosphere which I must advise to do.

The way I did it was used an old catering boiler.

I targeted the sand bed only, I Syphoned the brown fluffy mull that was found under the sand.
The 25 litre tub was filled,and emptied into the boiler where I heated it until near boiling point.
(I had to bypass the thermostat underneath to do this) which is a two minute job.

Once I had it boiling, the brown die off from the dino scum raised up to the surface, I used a cup which I gently submerged to skim off the stuff I didn't want back in my tank.

I used a small pump and a length of hose to create a trickle over a peice of glass fronted by a office fan just in front to quickly cool off the water back to 26 degrees.

Once cooked I'd then add this back to the tank.

I repeated this every evening for a week of so, the water become clear after about 4 days.. And the slime just disappeared..

You can avoid the cooling process if you do a waterchange first..

Obviously Keep the old water, this would allow a batch in hand to start (where you can boil the 1st one, then let it cool in its own time. )
The following night boil the 2nd, but then replace the 1st batch which would have already been cooled from the night before.

This would ease the workload - which I only thought about after I'd done mine..

Hope it's of help to someone..

 

[jason2459]

Please don't just suggest to boil or bake or cook anything from inside the tank with out explicit instructions and extreme caution.

People have landed in the hospital doing such things.

I would highly suggest against it for most everyone with out very special protocols put into place. And just soaking in bleach is much safer yet still has its own risks.

 

[Livingjewels]

I just have suggested caution above.. I have also stated a runny nose.. It could have been hay fever.. But I'd rather suggest the boiling to avoid mis guidance.

I think if I was going to die, I'd have done that about 8 months ago.. I never knew what dinos was when I was first aquatinted with them..

My hand was in the tank more than out, if there was going to ever going to be a complication it would have no doubt, been then..!

Syphoning water, cuts on my hands (etc) it's had plenty of chances to have got me..

I'm giving a solution to Dinoflagelletes, should you wish to take it.. As above.. Do so taking the required precautions..

Do it outside.. Put a lid on the boiler.. Let it cool in its own time.. Obvoiusley don't breath it in..

 

[jason2459]

I just have suggested caution above.. I have also stated a runny nose.. It could have been hay fever.. But I'd rather suggest the boiling to avoid mis guidance.

I think if I was going to die, I'd have done that about 8 months ago.. I never knew what dinos was when I was first aquatinted with them..

My hand was in the tank more than out, if there was going to ever going to be a complication it would have no doubt, been then..!

Syphoning water, cuts on my hands (etc) it's had plenty of chances to have got me..

I'm giving a solution to Dinoflagelletes, should you wish to take it.. As above.. Do so taking the required precautions..

Do it outside.. Put a lid on the boiler.. Let it cool in its own time.. Obvoiusley don't breath it in..

No, it's not obvious to many people. I've also seen you just suggest boiling with out description. Boiling inside with no precautions is a sure way to get you, your family, and pets sick or death which has occurred.

You have been lucky.

There are many different types of dinos each with various types of toxins.

Some could be benign like unique sterols, some more harmful like DSP, and some even more deadly like PSP or palytoxins.



Again, I personally do not suggest this method for most everyone.

 

[jason2459]

Soaking in bleach would be safer and just as effective if not more so. Boiling would leave behind lots of organics to decay.

 

[Livingjewels]

Soaking in bleach would be safer and just as effective if not more so. Boiling would leave behind lots of organics to decay.

How would you go about this bleaching method?
I have a full tank full of sps coral and fish, I assume your conclusion would be to close the tank down and do this externally?

You moot a worrying scenario, it eeks me to say this, but what happens if these paly toxins are in your tank and you don't understand what they are (being novice) and what your actually messing with.
I've heard about them affecting people off zoas, but nothing like your suggesting with regards to dinoflagellates??

It surprises me also that there a no 'sticky' tabs in the beginners section of these forums warning the hobbyist of such compromises.

Most reefers like myself will no doubt just tackle them.. Like I have done. In order to get a result..

Just whilst we are discussing, what's the difference in killing them in the tank via the experiments and dosages with chemicals, any die off is actually in your tank which in theory is evaporating as moisture into the air of your room.
Is there any difference..?

 

[jason2459]

I wouldn't suggest doing either. But using a diatom filter that filters to 1 micron would be better IMO. Dinos are generally 10 microns and bigger.

In the past I'll doing a periodic typhoon in the tank and use a vortex diatom xl filter ala PaulB. This has probably been a factor in keeping the diatom population unnoticed in my tank.

Evaporation is a much slower process and not nearly as violent as boiling creating steam. But risk is possible.

 

[bertoni]

I agree that bleaching is a lot safer than boiling, and should be a lot more effective. You could treat the water with a neutralizing agent, like sodium thiosulfate or Amquel, or just let it sit with a pump in it for a few days, at most.

 

[SnowManSnow]

guys I don't know if this is useful here or not, but I want to offer this just in case it relates in SOME way to what is going on here in the thread. I want to eradicate this stuff from our hobby tanks just as much as anyone.
So.. I, like many, have been fighting dinos. I even took out my sand bed in my sps tank. It was still hanging on to the live rock though. its a tough battle, we all know that.
in an unrelated decision I decided to try the new KZ color system (its a 4 part thing)... ummm.. my rocks are CLEAN of ANY dinos... I don't know if it is related to what is being studied here or not, or if it is simply by chance, but a few weeks of dosing according to many suggestion and the dines are gone from the rocks.
Again, I'm sorry if it is a different direction of the thread, but I wanted to post just in case it may strike a thought with someone.
Best to you all.
Brandon

 

[karimwassef]

Not necessarily. Part of the common theme for fighting dinos is that competition from other creatures can impact dino populations.

If an additive drives the competing bacteria, coral, algae, pods, or any other protists to thrive, then they can bring the tank back in balance.

 

[jason2459]

Corals out competing. Or the dinos inside the corals are out competing along with other microfauna is a possibility.

But also, Snowmansnow, are you going by visual look of your tank to determine you have no more dinos?

If I look at my tank right now I would say I have 0 dinos and metronidazole wiped them out. But looking under the microscope tells a different story and that they are still there just that their population has been reduced greatly.

 

[DNA]

I've got these small (1/4" or 5mm) gray starfish that seek out the densest dinoflagellate mats on the sand and stay there. I can't see any drastic changes, but here is one lifeform that likes to play with dinos.

After weeks of epic cyano bloom the tank cleared up leaving the sand almost dino free. That did not last long so it's back to business as usual, but with a twist this time since a star has showed up.

 

[DNA]

A friends tank with almost undetectable amounts of ostis suffered a bleaching event and a portion of the the corals died. Now the dinos are obvious?

I'm still looking for a small tank owner willing to go the other way.

 

[africangrey]

Three month ago I got 16oz AlgaGen ReefPods Tisbe to combat Ostis bloom, while it worked for a certain extend but the pods diminished overtime because there was nothing for them to sustain their lives in my zeo driven tank. Now my phosphate is measured 0.00 using UL Hanna checker, the dino has made come back in full force.

Just ordered 5280 Pods contains from algaebarn.com which claimed to contain live Tigriopus, Tisbe, and Apocyclops Copepods in a mix. once arrived, will dump the whole thing to my 100 gal reef and see them go wild after Ostis, then I came across a report stating that toxin release from dino would eventually immobilize pods render their effectiveness in combating an out break. What should I do at this point?
https://algaebarn.com/product/5280pods/

 

[karimwassef]

Here is what it looks like when I use chemiclean - in case anyone can make sense of it

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