Mikefromaz
New member
I know it sounds odd. I agree when the tank was normal there was always bubbles rising out of the sand bed. I am going to take a hard look tomorrow a couple of hours after the lights come on.
Dinoflagellates.
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Mikefromaz
New member
After looking closely I am sure there are zero bubbles either from the brown slime or trapped in the sand bed. I can't help but think that the Marine Algaefix must have had a profound effect on the entire tank biotrope. In any case I have begun dosing vodka. Hopefully between that, the Stabilty and the new skimmer pump things will turn around.
karimwassef
Active member
I'm dino free again - clean method.
I'm going to leave my UV on for another week, then go intermittent (4 hrs off a day) as I do with my skimmer.
I'm going to leave my UV on for another week, then go intermittent (4 hrs off a day) as I do with my skimmer.
Mikefromaz
New member
Karimwassef....great news! I am encouraged.
Then forget about chaeto.
If chaeto can survive, dinos will absolutely thrive and laugh at you.
karimwassef
Active member
Nope. I have the proof. I have chaeto growing and dinos in check. Dinos are everywhere, they just need to be controlled and put back into a minimal population.
Chaeto and dinos are not tied by any means. Plenty keep chaeto without issues.
Look - phosphate is needed by all organisms to thrive. It's a question of degree. The corals make the most out of it under my halides in the DT. The remainder gets consumed by my chaeto in my sump under LED and CFL.
As long as there is a good balance of phosphates and nitrates, the system works. If it goes off balance, dinos come back.
Chaeto and dinos are not tied by any means. Plenty keep chaeto without issues.
Look - phosphate is needed by all organisms to thrive. It's a question of degree. The corals make the most out of it under my halides in the DT. The remainder gets consumed by my chaeto in my sump under LED and CFL.
As long as there is a good balance of phosphates and nitrates, the system works. If it goes off balance, dinos come back.
karimwassef
Active member
By the way, dinos live in the water column by night! Chaeto doesn't.
UV critically kills dinos and skimming removes their waste product. Chaeto grows with no issue due to UV or skimming.
My war tools are directed at killing the dinos, but chaeto is an ally unaffected by those tools.
I'm not concerned with phosphate levels or even nitrates for that matter. It's a physical assault to curb the population of the infesting protozoan parasite.
UV critically kills dinos and skimming removes their waste product. Chaeto grows with no issue due to UV or skimming.
My war tools are directed at killing the dinos, but chaeto is an ally unaffected by those tools.
I'm not concerned with phosphate levels or even nitrates for that matter. It's a physical assault to curb the population of the infesting protozoan parasite.
I think that tanks tend to react differently, and so I would hesitate to predict whether a reasonable approach is going to work or fail. Chaetomorpha does grow well in our systems. The UV approach is interesting. I'd like to see more results from it. That's a fairly novel approach to nutrient export. 
karimwassef
Active member
UV doesn't export nutrients. It kills the dinos. The skimmer exports their dead remains.
I have to disagree. If your chaeto is growing, then your system is not ULNS, you are not hurting dinoflagellates, you are still feeding them and killing other microorganisms that would prey upon the dinos.
To starve the dinoflagellates you must lower nutrients in a way no other organism could make it, specially chaetomorpha which nutrient requirements are much higher.
I have to say that what you are doing does not make any sense to me and as soon your system lose balance, dinos will come back, with rage because there won't be any other organism in your tank to compete.
If you have decided to follow the "nuke path" you are not walking the right direction mate, just another similar path that won't lead you to a safe harbour.
karimwassef
Active member
I'm clean in 7 days. That's data.
I don't plan on running a ULNS. Dinos can thrive with very little nutrients. They live in the state that has less nutrients than algae can live in. So you either raise nutrients (dirty) and allow algae to compete or nuke them (clean), independent of nutrient levels.
This isn't an algae. It's a protozoan infestation. A disease.
I don't plan on running a ULNS. Dinos can thrive with very little nutrients. They live in the state that has less nutrients than algae can live in. So you either raise nutrients (dirty) and allow algae to compete or nuke them (clean), independent of nutrient levels.
This isn't an algae. It's a protozoan infestation. A disease.
karimwassef
Active member
It's like getting marine velvet or ich. You kill the disease.
Right, that's what I was thinking. I should have been more precise.
karimwassef
Active member
I see. The idea being that UV can break down floating algae, protozoans and other plankton into DOAs for skimmer export - outside the dino flare up...
I'm certainly going to try it. Between my crabs dislodging the offending material and eating my algae, and the UV breaking it up for my skimmer - my tank looks great.
I suspect that I'll have to feed more this way though. I'm essentially shortening the lifespan of my plankton mass.
I'm certainly going to try it. Between my crabs dislodging the offending material and eating my algae, and the UV breaking it up for my skimmer - my tank looks great.
I suspect that I'll have to feed more this way though. I'm essentially shortening the lifespan of my plankton mass.
karimwassef
Active member
By the way, the UV flow must be sloooooow.
Protozoans are large and need more exposure to be destroyed. I run mine at 300-400gph as a secondary return. That's in a 380g DT, 660g full volume. It took a week of constant UV and skimming.
Protozoans are large and need more exposure to be destroyed. I run mine at 300-400gph as a secondary return. That's in a 380g DT, 660g full volume. It took a week of constant UV and skimming.
Mikefromaz
New member
I think the UV method holds a lot of promise. I am expecting a new bulb in a week or so. Meanwhile, I cleaned the piled up detritus from the LR section of my sump and other make cleaner stuff. Today was my 2nd. vodka dose. There is no question the skimmer output had increased. The only noticable change with the brown goop is that it seems to have slowed growth and the streamers are gone. It is obviously way too soon to form any conclusions. Efforts so far...new skimmer pump, housekeeping in sump, two bags of purigen, a fresh charge of Phosguard in the reactor and dosing vodka. Oh yeah.....crossed fingers.
Mikefromaz
New member
Making progress! I just did another nitrate test on my tank.I was expecting the all too familar 20+ppm. What I read was ZERO nitrates. As recently as twelve hours ago nothing had changed. Zero! Sump maintenance, Stability bacteria supplement, new skimmer pump and most amazing is the vodka dosing. After losing two corals and watching my tank go to sludge this is exactly the good news I have been hoping for.
