I think I paid $42 for this one. Ran it for a few days and Dinos in remission...
http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcos...ne-internal-uv-sterilizer-with-power-head-24w
Dinoflagellates.
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I think I paid $42 for this one. Ran it for a few days and Dinos in remission...
http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcos...ne-internal-uv-sterilizer-with-power-head-24w
Hehe. This thread is so full of crazy.
We hate water changes, love algae, pour peroxide, skimmate, and miracle grow in our tanks while overfeeding and starving our tanks in week long darkness.
Thanks for contributing to the insanity!
Fish Keeper82
New member
taricha,
How is the sand bed transplant idea/project coming along?
How is the sand bed transplant idea/project coming along?
karimwassef
Active member
Heres a picture of mine. I've been battling them for at least 6 months. This is only one day after completely siphoning them out. They completely disappear at night and are back during the day. I've tried everything I've read to try, short of the UV. I just purchased an 18w emperor aquatics to run on my 57g. Hopefully have it online this weekend. I don't have a positive ID on them but it definitely killed all my snails. Hermits and emerald crabs seem to be fine though.
Steps I've tried
1. 3 day blackout (this cleared the tank for about a day. I noticed small patches by that night and by the next day it was business as usual for them.
2. Dino X ( this worked incredibly well, completely rid my tank for a week, and then all hell broke loose and they came back stronger than ever) increasing dosage had no effect.
3. Hydrogen peroxide 1-2ml per gallon has had no effect.
So my plan of attack this round is going to be the UV, blackout and Dino X.
Steps I've tried
1. 3 day blackout (this cleared the tank for about a day. I noticed small patches by that night and by the next day it was business as usual for them.
2. Dino X ( this worked incredibly well, completely rid my tank for a week, and then all hell broke loose and they came back stronger than ever) increasing dosage had no effect.
3. Hydrogen peroxide 1-2ml per gallon has had no effect.
So my plan of attack this round is going to be the UV, blackout and Dino X.
The sandbed is ready to go in.
After I siphoned all visible dinos from my DT into the cultured sand, 24 hrs later there were about as many dinos inside the guts of other organisms as there were free swimming dinos. 48 hours, dinos were hard to find.
I'll try to get a microscope video of all the benthic heterotrophs among the sand grains in the cultured sand bed.
I'm not ready for the transplant yet, though. I'm trying to get an established culture of my dinos in a beaker before I wipe them out in my tank.
I would say this is the best advise... I think an ATS has more to do with your success getting rid of dinos, not the uv filter.
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taricha said:
That may be so, but we come by it honestly...
Implicit in that observation is the fact that along the way, we try doing a lot of stuff and it doesn't work. Hence karimwassef's rather trenchant sig, I would imagine, and hence a fair chunk of the crazy.
taricha said:
Yes, a blackout of any length is in essence beginning the change from a "sunlit" to a cryptic ecosystem, and then aborting the process. Heterotrophs rule in the darkness, and a new ecosystem emerges in which, lacking primary producers, the lowest trophic level consists of detrivorous bacteria and protists. Or at least, a new ecosystem begins to emerge... Obviously, the process won't get very far, but as you pointed out the shift would proceed pretty quickly on the micro level because there's lots of food around and microorganisms can reproduce like crazy when conditions are favorable.
taricha said:
Well, I haven't put any time into investigating heterotrophic dinos for their own sake, but this popped when I Googled "benthic heterotrophic dinoflagellate": http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0967026042000202154
This was also in the top 10 hits: http://www.phycologia.org/doi/abs/10.2216/i0031-8884-41-4-382.1
I've always assumed there's a diverse population of benthic heterotrophic dinos on wild reefs, some cross-section of which is present in any hobby system, in part because there are hundreds and hundreds of species of heterotrophic dinos so it seemed likely that some of them had adapted to the benthic environment, and in part because of stuff like this:
FWIW, such evidence as we have (which pertains to free swimming dinos) indicates that heterotrophic dinos and small ciliates are the least effective predators on mixotrophic dinos...
Growth said:
...so they're probably not the dominant predators in a blacked-out system. Though on the other hand, I expect heterotrophic dinos and small ciliates can bloom, too, meaning they could overwhelm a population of mixotrophic dinos with sheer numbers if given time.
taricha said:
Are the dinos in your tank growing back quickly enough to keep up with demand? Bear in mind that the dino-killing organisms you've got need dinos to eat. Without food, their population may die back and your carefully cultivated sand could lose its punch.
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sinful said:
Part of the crazy around here is acknowledging that dinos are waaaay better at chemical warfare than we are, which means if you go that route, you may find that it actually turns 180 degrees on you and ends up helping the dinos.
As I understand it, AlgaeX and DinoX contain the same active ingredient, which would explain the similar results...
sinful said:
You're not the first to observe this -- at this point, DinoX may do nothing more than select for dinoflagellates that are immune to DinoX. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the widespread application of chemical fixes like DinoX over the years has had a role in selecting for particularly troublesome dinos like ostis, ultimately creating an even worse version of the problem they were meant to solve.
But all that having been said, the combination of UV + H2O2 was played with in 2013 and '14 and abandoned, perhaps because it wasn't yet apparent that when you knock your dinos back, you have to follow through to keep them down -- nobody has tried UV + DinoX that I'm aware of, so who knows? There may be a synergy there, too, and having already nuked your tank more than once, nuking it again probably won't make things worse. But the follow through may be a problem, what with the fallout and all... Meaning that I don't know how effective going dirty or dosing phyto would be with an algicidal chemical in the mix.
karimwassef
Active member
I would say this is the best advise... I think an ATS has more to do with your success getting rid of dinos, not the uv filter.
well.. that's like saying you need to focus on breathing, not eating... You need many things to work together to win.
Billybatz9
New member
What's up guys. I've been missing in action for a few weeks, maybe a month. Want to know why? Because I've decided that these little bastards will never die. And you just gotta learn to live with them.
Because I've decided that these little bastards will never die. And you just gotta learn to live with them.What's up guys. I've been missing in action for a few weeks, maybe a month. Want to know why?
Ha. Sounds like a good relationship you have there.
Billybatz9
New member
A few questions if anyone can answer...
1. Are dinos affected by calcium or alkalinity? Every time I dose, I see a bit of a bloom.
2. Does running blue LED's instead of white affect the dinos?
3. How long do dinos have to be in fresh water to die? If I start my tank over, I would like to keep my zoas.
I hate this crap! lol no relationship there. Dinos are like the girl who keeps stalking you, even though you told her no a million times.
1. Are dinos affected by calcium or alkalinity? Every time I dose, I see a bit of a bloom.
2. Does running blue LED's instead of white affect the dinos?
3. How long do dinos have to be in fresh water to die? If I start my tank over, I would like to keep my zoas.
I hate this crap! lol no relationship there. Dinos are like the girl who keeps stalking you, even though you told her no a million times.
That could become an issue. Passive things I've been doing in my tank (like growing lots of macro - chaeto and caulerpa) have slowed the dino growth in the DT, so it's a valid concern.
If anyone has a substitute dino sized - 10-50 micron round particulate - food in mind, that would be helpful.
I currently toss in skimmate, fish food, and dead phyto.
Here's a vid of my sandbed on 40x for a shot of what sorts of things are in there.
https://youtu.be/24s9IjAwTqM
DNA
New member
It's a busy and fascinating world.
I wonder what a behavioral science would make of it.
Those that move seem to be on a mission and the dark masses hubs.
I agree that a multi pronged approach to fighting these things is definitely a good thing to do... however I feel like there is a lot of talk about the uv sterilizer being the answer but I think it would only do little to combat the dinos without using the ATS as well. In my experience it's much easier to out-compete these things with algae than try to eliminate them all together. All I'm saying is that if you can't find anything to kill the dinos then might as well try an ATS. It worked for me and clearly has worked for you too.
karimwassef
Active member
likewise, using an ATS alone didn't work. In fact, one of the first indicators of a dino infestation is the death of an ATS...
Billybatz9
New member
How would you make one for say a biocube 29?
Billybatz9
New member
Yes.
Billybatz9
New member
Is there any way to clean zoas of dinos? I have colony of about 80 rastas that I would like to transfer to new tank if I tear this one down.
