StrangeDejavu
Member
Sorry, you're right, ignore me. :facepalm:
Either way, this stuff is completely safe if (reasonably) overdosed and Twilliard even confirmed it works when underdosed.
Dinoflagellates.
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Sorry, you're right, ignore me. :facepalm:
Either way, this stuff is completely safe if (reasonably) overdosed and Twilliard even confirmed it works when underdosed.
StrangeDejavu
Member
Interesting little write-up on copepods and dinos: http://www.scienceisart.com/dockbook/a2012-09-Sep/a2012-09.html
jason2459
Well-known member
I've turned off my automatic water change.
Ozone offline
I've cut carbon dosing in half.
I've pulled GAC out. (I don't use GFO or any other PO4 binder so nothing there to pull out.)
I opened up the skimmer lowering the water level a lot.
ATO is still on.
ATS is still on
Limewater dosing still on.
Light schedules unchanged. (I don't believe in blackouts anyway.)
Feeding schedule and amounts still the same.
I think that's it.
I grabbed a 1L container and filled it with 700ml of tank water.
I had calulated out exactly how many milligrams of the 70% active ingredients in MetroPlex I would need for around 200g total system volume. Using the little spoon I started putting some in that container. That little spoon was a pain. I went for a better measuring device and then decided to just dump the contents completely in.
So, 5g day one done.
Ozone offline
I've cut carbon dosing in half.
I've pulled GAC out. (I don't use GFO or any other PO4 binder so nothing there to pull out.)
I opened up the skimmer lowering the water level a lot.
ATO is still on.
ATS is still on
Limewater dosing still on.
Light schedules unchanged. (I don't believe in blackouts anyway.)
Feeding schedule and amounts still the same.
I think that's it.
I grabbed a 1L container and filled it with 700ml of tank water.
I had calulated out exactly how many milligrams of the 70% active ingredients in MetroPlex I would need for around 200g total system volume. Using the little spoon I started putting some in that container. That little spoon was a pain. I went for a better measuring device and then decided to just dump the contents completely in.
So, 5g day one done.
Heh. That dose is 250mg/10 gal, a spoonful is 125mg so it's exactly the 2 spoonfuls in the "1-2 spoonfuls per 10 gal per day for 3 days"
Just clarifying for others that your "dump the whole thing in" is within the recommended dosage.
Never seen anyone else with peridinium dinos, so interesting to see how it goes with you.
Yesterday was day 1 for me and my small population of ostis as well.
In addition to tank treatment I started a control vs treatment beaker.
Really hoping that twilliards accounts of visible changes to cell behavior and structure (growth rate too) show up in the side by side beakers.
Also my exhaustive biodiversity survey was exhausting as well as exhaustive.
8 fish, 55 different species/strains of coral/nem/gorgs, 9 macroalgae, 5 microalgae/bacterial growth forms, 16 filter feeders (7 kinds of feather dusters), 8 crustaceans, 5 echinoderms, 11 snails, 4 random worm detrivores, 18 species only visible through microscope (I quit at 9 different kinds of ciliates).
Before pics of all the corals. To compare in case noticeable changes after, everything else - I'll just verify if it's present or not in the weeks after.
Only thing that I won't be able to monitor satisfactorily will be nitrate because mine is currently 50(!) before treatment.
So it would have to be a big swing to show up on mine.
It was 100+ two weeks ago, when I realized my old test was shot and first got my new one.
8 fish, 55 different species/strains of coral/nem/gorgs, 9 macroalgae, 5 microalgae/bacterial growth forms, 16 filter feeders (7 kinds of feather dusters), 8 crustaceans, 5 echinoderms, 11 snails, 4 random worm detrivores, 18 species only visible through microscope (I quit at 9 different kinds of ciliates).
Before pics of all the corals. To compare in case noticeable changes after, everything else - I'll just verify if it's present or not in the weeks after.
Only thing that I won't be able to monitor satisfactorily will be nitrate because mine is currently 50(!) before treatment.
So it would have to be a big swing to show up on mine.
It was 100+ two weeks ago, when I realized my old test was shot and first got my new one.
Kurt03
Active member
I started metroplex last night in my 20g qt. one scoop in the 20g, guessing im a little under since its only 70% metro? Ill dose 1.25 scoop the remaining days.
I have actually beat back the dinos quite a bit and they arent that bad currently, but i can still find them. Ive held off on water changes and getting my nutrients down cause i feel they are what are competing with the dinos. I now have some green algae, some of that snot algae that may be a form of cyano that i posted a while ago that shows up under the scope as round spheres. I also now have (I think) red and green cyano). On another note I moved all of my coral out of this tank to the rescue tank (fingers crossed). There were some monster pods on the frag plugs etc that i found while moving things so thats a good sign! Shows me there is good life in the 20dino tank and i think i have tipped the balance in my favor finally. Hoping the metro is the final nail.
After the metro treatment I will do some large water changes to hopefully take care of the cyano and get nutrient levels in check. If i dont get rid of cyano and the snot i will dose chemiclean.
currently lights and skimmer are off, carbon on. Debating what to do throughout this treatment.
I have actually beat back the dinos quite a bit and they arent that bad currently, but i can still find them. Ive held off on water changes and getting my nutrients down cause i feel they are what are competing with the dinos. I now have some green algae, some of that snot algae that may be a form of cyano that i posted a while ago that shows up under the scope as round spheres. I also now have (I think) red and green cyano). On another note I moved all of my coral out of this tank to the rescue tank (fingers crossed). There were some monster pods on the frag plugs etc that i found while moving things so thats a good sign! Shows me there is good life in the 20dino tank and i think i have tipped the balance in my favor finally. Hoping the metro is the final nail.
After the metro treatment I will do some large water changes to hopefully take care of the cyano and get nutrient levels in check. If i dont get rid of cyano and the snot i will dose chemiclean.
currently lights and skimmer are off, carbon on. Debating what to do throughout this treatment.
The dose is 1-2 scoop per 10g, so your tank would be 2-4 scoops per daily dose, unless you are trying to test under-dosing.
jason2459
Well-known member
yep, for my system volume it works out just right for 1 5g container = 2 scoops / 10g of 70% metro. I was just going to go with the 125g/10g via twilliards dosage of 75% metro. Then just said forget it and dosed it all.
Kurt03
Active member
Sorry, meant 1 scoop per 10, dosed 2 scoops.
jason2459
Well-known member
Nitrates still 2.5
Phosphates 0.0122
Used the Aquazole tonight. I scooped up some tank water and placed in 10 250mg pills. Stirred with a spoon and it was fully dissolved in about a minute or two and poured that into the tank.
Day 3 2.5 grams done...
Well, then I got curious and plopped 10 more pills directly in the sump. They sank right to the bottom and started disolving instantly. Seems like a very easy way to dose it.
Now day 3 5 grams done...
I'm going to get a sample tonight to put under the microscope and see what's there and in what shape.
Tomorrow I won't dose anything.
I'll clean out the skimmer as the body is caked and bring it back up to normal operations and place a filter sock on the siphon line going into the sump. Then start blowing off the rocks.
I'll still leave the automatic water change off and carbon dosing cut in half.
Phosphates 0.0122
Used the Aquazole tonight. I scooped up some tank water and placed in 10 250mg pills. Stirred with a spoon and it was fully dissolved in about a minute or two and poured that into the tank.
Day 3 2.5 grams done...
Well, then I got curious and plopped 10 more pills directly in the sump. They sank right to the bottom and started disolving instantly. Seems like a very easy way to dose it.
Now day 3 5 grams done...
I'm going to get a sample tonight to put under the microscope and see what's there and in what shape.
Tomorrow I won't dose anything.
I'll clean out the skimmer as the body is caked and bring it back up to normal operations and place a filter sock on the siphon line going into the sump. Then start blowing off the rocks.
I'll still leave the automatic water change off and carbon dosing cut in half.
Unrelated, but I am very interested to hear how your amphidinium carterae do with metronidazole.
The reason is that it will either support or shoot down one of the proposed mechanisms for how the drug could affect some organisms.
It goes like this. (I'll do the citation thing when I'm not on my phone.)
There is a protein that is crucial in the photosynthetic process called ferredoxin. As you guess from the name, it's iron based, and one of the largest iron demands of photosynthesis.
Metro is highly reactive with iron in general and specifically reactive with ferredoxin. This is the proposed action of metro in this theory.
(I'm a little fuzzy on whether the reaction inhibits or destroys the photosynthetic machinery)
Dinos stole their photosynthetic machines at different times from different things, so they don't all have the same equipment.
Some dinos, when they need to - like if nutrients and iron are low - can make a substitute for ferredoxin called flavodoxin.
Flavodoxin does the photosynthetic work without iron and without the interference from metro.
The ferredoxin/flavodoxin switch in many cases accounts for which organisms are metro targets and which aren't affected.
There's little info on which dinos can and which can't, but amphidinium carterae can make flavodoxin.
Therefore, your amphidinium carterae should survive the metronidazole treatment....
Or else that is not the mechanism involved with this drug interaction.
StrangeDejavu
Member
Well I hope for my Dad's tanks' sake that a different mechanism is at work here.
It's late now, but i'll get two samples tomorrow and see if I can notice any changes in their behavior/appearance and try to follow up with pics and/or video.
StrangeDejavu
Member
Looks like we finally have some before/after shots on a microscopic level of Ostreopsis before and after Metro treatment. These were posted by Twilliard of user Alanc425's dinos, from samples before and after treatment. Just beautiful.
Pre-Metro:
After Metro:
Pre-Metro:
After Metro:
