TheFishMan65
New member
IMHO 2x2 won't work. I think I will get some agreement. They are to easy to bend. Why can't you use 2x4?
DIY Stands Template and Calculator
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
RocketEngineer
Space is big.
psykokid,
Check out the image in this post from the first part of this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10647796&postcount=85
The legs are reversed with the screw strips on the outside. If you include a filler strip between the two screw strips, you can face the stand. The footprint of the stand would be bigger than the tanks but for smaller tanks this would work fine.
RocketEngineer
Check out the image in this post from the first part of this thread:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10647796&postcount=85
The legs are reversed with the screw strips on the outside. If you include a filler strip between the two screw strips, you can face the stand. The footprint of the stand would be bigger than the tanks but for smaller tanks this would work fine.
RocketEngineer
Definitely use 2x4's for the top four horizontal pieces (2x2 horizontal cross members and base pieces would be fine)
You can use 2x3's instead of 2x4's for the four vertical legs. That would make the left to right clearance under the stand 31" instead of 29".
This frame, by itself, is very prone to wracking (folding, collapsing) because there is very little rigidity forcing the 90 degree angles to stay fixed at 90 degrees. You must reinforce the angles. You could cut out 24 plywood triangles (9" x 9" x 12.75"?) but I think it's easier, and better looking, to just skin five of the six sides, and then use four triangles for the front. (in place of triangles you could cut 8" long pieces of 2x2, with 45 degree angles at each end, and screw them in as diagonal supports at each 90 degree angle)
About the horizontal cross members (red and purple), IMO:
The two red 15" ones at the top are unnecessary unless your tank is acrylic, and the two at the bottom are unnecessary in any event. If your tank is acrylic the top ones will need to support weight, so include them, use 2x4's, use metal joist hangers instead of trusting the screws to support weight, and cover the top with >=1/2" plywood. If you are planning to install a shelf in the middle, where the purple cross members are, then keep them, otherwise the purple ones are unnecessary. The red ones in the middle might help a little, but could be safely done away with. If you are planning to put a shelf there that won't need to hold much weight, then 2x2's and screws are sufficient, but if you want to put a sump there, I think you should use 2x4's, and either joist hangers or find a way to put legs under the ends of the horizontal pieces (like in the link that RocketEngineer posted above)
BTW: The reason I don't think horizontal cross members are useful (unless they need to support weight) is because their main purpose is to keep the vertical pieces from bowing when they are holding up a huge amount of weight. Short 2x4 legs (even 40" long) can support many tons before they start to bow, and no aquarium weights many tons. If you look at a framed house, they put horizontal cross members between the vertical studs, but the studs are 8"-10" long, and they may need to support many tons.
You can use 2x3's instead of 2x4's for the four vertical legs. That would make the left to right clearance under the stand 31" instead of 29".
This frame, by itself, is very prone to wracking (folding, collapsing) because there is very little rigidity forcing the 90 degree angles to stay fixed at 90 degrees. You must reinforce the angles. You could cut out 24 plywood triangles (9" x 9" x 12.75"?) but I think it's easier, and better looking, to just skin five of the six sides, and then use four triangles for the front. (in place of triangles you could cut 8" long pieces of 2x2, with 45 degree angles at each end, and screw them in as diagonal supports at each 90 degree angle)
About the horizontal cross members (red and purple), IMO:
The two red 15" ones at the top are unnecessary unless your tank is acrylic, and the two at the bottom are unnecessary in any event. If your tank is acrylic the top ones will need to support weight, so include them, use 2x4's, use metal joist hangers instead of trusting the screws to support weight, and cover the top with >=1/2" plywood. If you are planning to install a shelf in the middle, where the purple cross members are, then keep them, otherwise the purple ones are unnecessary. The red ones in the middle might help a little, but could be safely done away with. If you are planning to put a shelf there that won't need to hold much weight, then 2x2's and screws are sufficient, but if you want to put a sump there, I think you should use 2x4's, and either joist hangers or find a way to put legs under the ends of the horizontal pieces (like in the link that RocketEngineer posted above)
BTW: The reason I don't think horizontal cross members are useful (unless they need to support weight) is because their main purpose is to keep the vertical pieces from bowing when they are holding up a huge amount of weight. Short 2x4 legs (even 40" long) can support many tons before they start to bow, and no aquarium weights many tons. If you look at a framed house, they put horizontal cross members between the vertical studs, but the studs are 8"-10" long, and they may need to support many tons.
TheFishMan65
New member
Pretty much agree with C-Rad. Where I disagree is 2x2 for the bottom frame. I would recommend 2x4 there so they can distribute the weight across the floor. Maybe not a big deal for this little tank, but in general 2x4s.
I've read that on other stand threads, and I don't think there's any need, in most cases, to use horizontal pieces to distribute the weight across the floor. I think the lower cross members give the box structure rigidity. The base of a cut 2x4 leg distributes weight across 5.25 sq in, which is much more than the leg on any other heavy piece of furniture typically kept in a house (gun safe, couch with three 250 lb football fans on it, etc) except maybe a water bed. Floors themselves are designed to distribute weight, and if they aren't a concrete slab, they are made of 2x12's, 16" apart, with at least thick plywood subflooring over them. A leg would never be more than 7 inches from a joist under the sub flooring; could it really cause the subflooring to deform over time? I suppose in an extreme case, or in a place where the building code is lax, there could be a problem, so maybe it makes sense to play it safe and make the base of a tank stand as strong as the top, but I suspect that 99% of the time, it's overkill. Maybe a contractor could chime in and give us an idea of how much weight a floor is designed to take, and how concentrated that weight can be before the subfloor deforms.
TheFishMan65
New member
You might be right especially for small builds. But your couch example is a 100 gallong tanks (8 lp/gallon) which for some people is a small tank. I read an article somewhere and there maybe a link several pages back. But IIRC one of the highest ration they measured was a lady in high heels. 1/16th square inch carrying 100 lbs, but I don't think you can generalize up to an inch carrying 1600 lbs. Also for big tanks which way the joist runs make a big difference. And IIRC against a wall can take more weight than the center of the room.
I'll probably keep building my stands with 2x2's around the bottom, unless I find myself with an exceptionally large tank and an exceptionally weak floor, but because this thread amounts to publishing building standards that could (blindly) be used my anyone in any situation, it makes sense to play it safe and recommend that the base horizontal pieces always be as strong as the top horizontal pieces. I guess guarding against the one in ten thousand chance is where building codes come from.
TheFishMan65
New member
Another important aspect is the quality of the wood. i have seen some pretty bad studs in my life. Ratings are based on average wood. Same with the stand, but we probably use better wood since we hand pick a few pieces.
One thought on the 2x2 bottom. If that will act as a shelf for a sump you may want to reconsider. If the floor is uneven then since the 2x2 is flexible it won't be flat. This might place bad loading on the sump which would be bad.
One thought on the 2x2 bottom. If that will act as a shelf for a sump you may want to reconsider. If the floor is uneven then since the 2x2 is flexible it won't be flat. This might place bad loading on the sump which would be bad.
levischilz
New member
Im looking to do the same setup at the previous page. I have a 210g glass aquarium that im looking to have a 48" opening in the front. I built the top out of 2x6's already and have not started on the rest of the stand. Do you think a 4ft opening is ok on 2x6's? I was thinking I could fab a center brace I could just slide in tight and screw with no glue and remove it later if needed to remove the sump. Thanks Levi
RocketEngineer
Space is big.
levischilz,
You would have no problems spanning a 4' opening with a 2X6 top rail. No need for a center brace if you have legs on either side of the opening. Consider making it just a touch wider say 49-50 inches wide so you don't have to fight to get the sump in/out. Glass sumps with the trim are a little wider than the base dimensions. Give yourself room to work.
iceh,
The back of my stand is open which allows me to run my wires and plumbing without worrying about cutting holes or fishing for wires. The problem is the light from my fuge is visible a night. Otherwise, its what I prefer. If you design you system properly, there should be very little risk of flooding so caulking the stand doesn't make sense to me. Also, since my stand has the sump on top of the base frame, any leaks would flow out onto the floor anyways so why bother.
RocketEngineer
You would have no problems spanning a 4' opening with a 2X6 top rail. No need for a center brace if you have legs on either side of the opening. Consider making it just a touch wider say 49-50 inches wide so you don't have to fight to get the sump in/out. Glass sumps with the trim are a little wider than the base dimensions. Give yourself room to work.
iceh,
The back of my stand is open which allows me to run my wires and plumbing without worrying about cutting holes or fishing for wires. The problem is the light from my fuge is visible a night. Otherwise, its what I prefer. If you design you system properly, there should be very little risk of flooding so caulking the stand doesn't make sense to me. Also, since my stand has the sump on top of the base frame, any leaks would flow out onto the floor anyways so why bother.
RocketEngineer
rkaragozler
New member
I decided to build a stand for my 450 gallon glass tank, 96x36, from what I calculated the weight is around 6000lbs. I would like 1 center support, I would use 2x10 for the top rails, and 2x4 for the bottom, I am a little confused with the support sizes (legs), do I use the same size as the top rails? also the top cross braces can they be 2x8. sorry if i missed this reading the thread.
prop-frags
SPS Slave
Here is the article mentioned - this gives an excellent primer on structural engineering and "common myths":
Residential Wood Framed Floors and Aquarium Weights
A few things to keep in mind regarding what C-Rad has posted here:
- safely transferring load from the tank to the ground is what is most important. spreading load across as many of the floor joists as possible is much better than isolating it to small spots unless of course the floor is on concrete slab-on-grade. ("where to put the aquarium", just before myth #7)
- most residential floors are designed to support 30-40 psf BUT construction materials and codes vary from place to place - all of which can impact the average live load capacity of a floor/structure (myth #9)
- there is a difference in "active" live load and long term live load (myth #11)
We recently performed a stand and floor structure reinforcement for our 300g setup. You can find some other useful links and information there.
TheFishMan65
New member
Could you post a link to your spring loaded magnets? Thanks
seahorsedreams
New member
ok, heres what i came up with...hidden hinges and no knobs just spring loaded magnets on front and side doors
I still have a trim piece that will go around after the 210 gets set into place.
Art
Great job. What stain did you use?
Thanks, I used minwax red mahogany, wiped on thick with a sponge then wiped excess with a rag...the spring loaded magnets i used from home depot they just press in then spring the doors out so they can be opened.
