Do fish feel pain?

[nanomania]

I dont know wether fish feels pain or no, ya but they do stress out.... killing fish for food can also be done in a better way.. i see channels showing conservation and the same channel shows killing swordfishes and many other fishes for money, fun and entertainment...
i dont understand why people feel great when theh catch a big fish or shoot foxes and other animals in the wild and pose with the dead body and click photos and upload them, as if they have done something great..... RUBBISH!!

 

[Paul B]

I agree with you there. I don't kill anything for entertainment and I don't have any pictures of me next to any dead animals. I also fish, but when I do, I eat the fish.

 

[power boat jim]

I dont know wether fish feels pain or no, ya but they do stress out.... killing fish for food can also be done in a better way.. i see channels showing conservation and the same channel shows killing swordfishes and many other fishes for money, fun and entertainment...
i dont understand why people feel great when theh catch a big fish or shoot foxes and other animals in the wild and pose with the dead body and click photos and upload them, as if they have done something great..... RUBBISH!!

I wont disagree, I dont see the point in killing just for the sport of it either.

 

[Paul B]

Killing for fun seems just stupid to me. Like these guys who catch Great White Sharks just to hang them up and take a picture. Those guys are Sissies. To make it fair, they should jump in the water with the thing and get him in a head lock, then drag him to shore. If the shark wins, he eats you, or he can hang you up and take a picture.

 

[C Dog]

People that are saying that fishing and hunting is wrong because we are killing animals for fun, entertainment & MONEY well what about the reef & fish hobby??? A good % of fish and coral die while being collected,while being transported, at your LFS and at your home just for your pleasure & entertainment. So if you feel that fishing & hunting is wrong GET RID OF YOUR FISH AND/OR CORAL.

BTW I hunt & fish a lot. I eat what I kill, take pictures with it & share them, mount it on my wall and enjoy doing it. Its fun, rewarding and tasty. Fishing and hunting is healthy for the animals when the laws are followed and not over fished or poached.

 

[power boat jim]

People that are saying that fishing and hunting is wrong because we are killing animals for fun, entertainment & MONEY well what about the reef & fish hobby??? A good % of fish and coral die while being collected,while being transported, at your LFS and at your home just for your pleasure & entertainment. So if you feel that fishing & hunting is wrong GET RID OF YOUR FISH AND/OR CORAL.

BTW I hunt & fish a lot. I eat what I kill, take pictures with it & share them, mount it on my wall and enjoy doing it. Its fun, rewarding and tasty. Fishing and hunting is healthy for the animals when the laws are followed and not over fished or poached.

I think the the point is, killing animals for the sole sake of killing them is very different then trying to collect them and keep them alive for a long a time as possibe. Its really a strech to see the relationship between the two but thats just me. I also see nothing wrong with hunting and eating what you kill.

 

[nanomania]

Why cant there be laws on keeping corals and fishes? there should be laws like you need to do certified course to keep corals and certain fishes..... also people keeping them should be inspected buy govt, that wether they are taking care of it or no.... and only captive bred fishes and corals should be allowed and liverock should be bannd world wide..... but nothing like this can happen, the only reason is money......... as far as enjoying killing animals is concerned, i dont count them as humans or hobbyist....

 

[nanomania]

it took me 1 year of studies before geting into this hobby....

 

[Paul B]

I think the the point is, killing animals for the sole sake of killing them is very different then trying to collect them and keep them alive for a long a time as possibe.

Thats true, Many of my friends hunt and as long as you are going to eat what you kill, I don't see anything wrong with it. I was talking about people that used to hunt tigers and elephants just for the sake of killing the thing. Some people still pay to "hunt" tigers in a cage. I also fished all my life.
So C Dog, we agree with you.

 

[C Dog]

Ok sorry I see what you are saying now.

 

[KafudaFish]

If you think about it, for a fish it would be a behavioral advantage to detect an injury but not sense/react to what we classify as pain. Back on the other page someone stated about watching a fish respond when hooked on the belly. Yes they fight to escape but again is this pain or a response to an external stimulus?

Why do fish school? Because they are smart. Duh.

There are advantages to schooling because of predator and prey relationships. Overall you are less likely to be picked out. Who gets picked out? Is it random or is it specific individuals such as the young, the old, the sick and the injured? Why? The visual predators can select and focus on those individuals ie increase their chances of being successful (eating therefore more energy) and less likely to be injured themselves. You have to remember that the predators can be another's prey item. Fish can't do much about their age or illness but they could cope with pain levels and revealing that they are in pain and probably injured could alter their chances of being predated upon.

What about non-visual predators such as those that are nocturnal and/or use other sensors such as their lateral lines or Ampullae of Lorenzini that detect the electrical impulses of muscle contractions? If a fish responds to an injury and recognizes pain there should be a response and though an increased heart rate could provide additional oxygen for escape through a burst of swimming speed (flight) would there be an advantage for the fish to continue to sense "œpain" and to continue with those increased muscle contractions?

I just went back to page 1 after typing this all out and it seems that the abstract pretty much hints on what I wrote above.


Also go back and read Bill's post in #28:

This makes a lot of sense as well. Especially in light of the opiod receptors. After all, which fish gets picked off first? The obviously struggling one. So it pays to tolerate and not react to pain, even if experiencing that pain. I know when implanted tags, fish certainly try and squirm around like it's a painful experience (more so than just struggling that occurs from just being on a boat instead of in the water), yet they recover pretty darn quickly and swim off normally...in most cases. Occasionally we have had fish take quite awhile to recover, and some rare ones end up with the sea gulls after them due to struggling on the surface instead of swimming off.

 

[mperales]

Lets think of this from an evolutionary stand point of prey. As has been stated before, those showing weakness (like pain) are more likely to be picked off by predators. Natural selection will then lean towards those animals that do not show pain as much. Since those animals are likely to survive and pass on those genes, evolution would lead towards a decreased pain perception.
As I have stated before, the wiring is there for fish to sense pain. It is the pain processing center (thalamus) that has not evolved, and why should it? Long lasting pain for a fish is of no benefit. If you keep showing pain for a prolonged time you are likely to be eaten. Short lasting pain will trigger a flight response, avoidance / escape which could mean survival.
Again, the abstract states "it is unwarranted to assume that they possess a human-like capacity for pain". Human-like is the key word. With all of the data that I've looked at and presented you can't make the blank statement that fish don't sense pain. I would agree that fish don't have long lasting pain but do have the capacity for, as Pink Floyd would sing, that "short ,sharp shock" pain sensation.

 

[HippieSmell]

People that are saying that fishing and hunting is wrong because we are killing animals for fun, entertainment & MONEY well what about the reef & fish hobby??? A good % of fish and coral die while being collected,while being transported, at your LFS and at your home just for your pleasure & entertainment. So if you feel that fishing & hunting is wrong GET RID OF YOUR FISH AND/OR CORAL.

BTW I hunt & fish a lot. I eat what I kill, take pictures with it & share them, mount it on my wall and enjoy doing it. Its fun, rewarding and tasty. Fishing and hunting is healthy for the animals when the laws are followed and not over fished or poached.

There's a difference between killing things for FUN, and having something die while trying to take care of it.

Honestly, I find the entire process of hunting bizarre. Some people will always ENJOY killing things, not much anyone can do about it. Hunters will defend their position by saying it's not about the killing, but about being out there in nature, bonding with friends and family, or whatever. I don't buy it, personally. Shoot with a camera if that's the case. I used to hunt with my dad, just to spend time with him, but don't any more. I'd miss my shots on purpose most of the time.

Hunters are good conservationists, though. I'll say that.

 

[Humu Humu]

Paul B,

I'm 100% with you on this.

 

[nanomania]

There's a difference between killing things for FUN, and having something die while trying to take care of it.

Honestly, I find the entire process of hunting bizarre. Some people will always ENJOY killing things, not much anyone can do about it. Hunters will defend their position by saying it's not about the killing, but about being out there in nature, bonding with friends and family, or whatever. I don't buy it, personally. Shoot with a camera if that's the case. I used to hunt with my dad, just to spend time with him, but don't any more. I'd miss my shots on purpose most of the time.

Hunters are good conservationists, though. I'll say that.

True...... as i child iv also killed many things, but after a while, i realised that its no fun killing things..... as in india kite flying and crackers are huge festivals celebrated across india, and the result is millions of birds dying or going def.... iv stopped it 15yrs back.... killing for eating im not against it... its just that i personally dont do it coz i love all animals but all my friends are non-vegies, iv never told them to stop eating nonveg... im jus against the fun part of killing and then posing in front of camera with that dead animal and also the way of fishing like majority of the professional morden fishermen are doing.... well that is jus too dam sick... just go on youtube and type these: "animal fur" , "leather trade" , "chicken farming" , "puppy mills" "cruel fishing" and "milk trade"

 

[Paul B]

Paul B,

I'm 100% with you on this.

Thanks, most people draw mustaches on pictures of me.

 

[nanomania]

some enjoy torturing and killing and some are passionate about saving and helping....

 

[ReachTheSky]

Hunters will defend their position by saying it's not about the killing, but about being out there in nature, bonding with friends and family, or whatever. I don't buy it, personally.

A polar bear isn't doing anything wrong when it kills a seal and shares the carcass with it's young. I don't believe people are wrong either when they hunt animals or catch fish, bring it back home or back to camp and eat it with family/friends. Participating in nature isn't a bad thing. We ourselves are products of it after all.

Yes, I do believe it's wrong to hunt for fun. I've never been hunting but I fish quite often but I always eat what I catch. I find no satisfaction in "catch & release" fishing. Why harm the animal simply to amuse myself? To me, the real satisfaction comes with catching the fish, cooking it and eating it/sharing it.