Ecotech Radion PRO VS. GHL MITRAS (My thoughts and experiences)

[dattong]

By the way, my other led fixture has these uv 405nm leds which appear very dim but i'm sure they have something to do with the color of my SPS.

 

[trueblackpercula]

trueblack, here's my 2 cents regarding the two very good led lights; the mitras and the radion pro...

this is coming from a strictly sps nut.... the type of person who spends way too many hours standing over my tank contemplating subtle colour variances in acroporas... yes, i have better things to do, yet i still stand there and stare at my sps....

i have run the mitras over my own tank for over a year and i have installed a pair of pros (g2) over a frag tank on the same system.. i have also seen some pros in action over a couple of other sps tanks..
Both lights have produced great colour and growth for me. But i feel that the pros edge out the mitras in terms of overall performance, especially when ease of use and cost are added to the equation..
I must add that i feel that mh/t5 is still superior for producing the vast and hypnotizing array of colour variance found in acroporas, but sometimes heat and other factors make it difficult to use them.
If you are not a tech/computer person, the radions are MUCH easier to use, set up and program.. and they are slightly less expensive to buy..
I also believe that the 400 and 415 nm leds that are present in the radions but absent in the mitras is a very important consideration..
If GHL were to come out with a new led puck which removed the warmer white leds and replaced them with some real uv, id probably still prefer the mitras, but as the two fixtures are right now, id choose the radion pro g3 over the Mitras 6200hv..
i know some people will say the the 390 to 420nm spectrum is not utilized by the corals for photosynthesis and since humans don't see this area of the spectrum, it isn't really needed but i think that it still plays a role in coral coloration. perhaps this is only the case for acropora..
even if coral don't use this area of light, they must react to it as do humans by producing a change in skin colour.
i have no scientific or engineering background to back this up... it is only my experience that acropora seem to achieve their full colour potential best under mh/t5, but then second on the list would be an led light with a full array of leds which start closer to the 390-400 nm..

having said all this, i want to re state that maybe my uv argument can really only be applied to sps corals and acropora in particular.
If acros are not your holy grail, maybe uv isn't required...

Well thank you for your reply, is there any way you could post a picture or two of the same sps under each fixture as a comparison? I mean chances are I am getting the mitras 100%. But I still would like to see.
Thanks as I am also absesed with sps lol

 

[trueblackpercula]

You are aware UV starts at 380nm going below not up and any slight UV spectrum left is completely negated by water refraction.

Please Google UV spectrum charts.

SPS have defense mechanics against UV also to protect themselves. Another worthy google session

what people get confused with is what is called Hyper violet this is why GHL use the term HV not UV, hyper violet is what makes your coral colour pop. However in this hobby everyone has got used to using the term UV which came from the T5 era. Metal halide is the only lamp that really dives into the UV spectrum but then filtered out by UV lenses.

Both Radion and Mitras seem to have pretty near matching spectrum graphs making them both equal contenders for coral "pop"

Thanks for the information and I sent you a pm

 

[AQD_ottawa]

Just for a point of accuracy I did not pick up on earlier the Mitras has a spectrum that covers 405nm upwards, it was commented earlier it would be nice if Mitras has this, but its had this curve since day one

 

[AQD_ottawa]

Thanks for the information and I sent you a pm

got it and your in luck will reply tomorrow

 

[trueblackpercula]

Well I have the mitras running and I almost have a complete project. I will let you know what I think about it vs the radion. But I will say if you have the money don't even think twice as the mitras is amazing.

 

[jthao]

percula, so what's your thoughts so far? i was debating back and forth and back and forth between the g3 pro and mitras.

if it was between the g2 and mitras, i would easily have picked the mitras.
but the g3 pro got me really interested because they have the newest available generation of cree/other high end manufacture diodes. Not saying that this will automatically make the fixture as a whole better, but it's nice to know that if i'm dropping all that cash, i'll have the most current led diodes available. again, not saying that the mitras has old tech, but it's led diodes are what g2 pros had (correct me if I'm wrong).

with that said, I ended up buying some mitras, go figure. lol. to me, what sold me, even though i wanted the newer led diodes, was that as a led fixture as a whole, the mitras just had what i needed/wanted. all purely preference. I'm sure i would have been just as happy with the g3 pros. Also i like to try out new things that i haven't tried before. again, just my own preference.
i actually went profilux and mitras for my new build (elos 160xl). I just wanted to try something different, other than the popular apex/radion mix, which i've tried already (g1/g2 non pros with apex) and was happy but just curious to see if the grass is greener on the other side.

 

[trueblackpercula]

percula, so what's your thoughts so far? i was debating back and forth and back and forth between the g3 pro and mitras.

if it was between the g2 and mitras, i would easily have picked the mitras.
but the g3 pro got me really interested because they have the newest available generation of cree/other high end manufacture diodes. Not saying that this will automatically make the fixture as a whole better, but it's nice to know that if i'm dropping all that cash, i'll have the most current led diodes available. again, not saying that the mitras has old tech, but it's led diodes are what g2 pros had (correct me if I'm wrong).

with that said, I ended up buying some mitras, go figure. lol. to me, what sold me, even though i wanted the newer led diodes, was that as a led fixture as a whole, the mitras just had what i needed/wanted. all purely preference. I'm sure i would have been just as happy with the g3 pros. Also i like to try out new things that i haven't tried before. again, just my own preference.
i actually went profilux and mitras for my new build (elos 160xl). I just wanted to try something different, other than the popular apex/radion mix, which i've tried already (g1/g2 non pros with apex) and was happy but just curious to see if the grass is greener on the other side.

Give me a few going to send something now.

 

[trueblackpercula]

The mitras lx6100hv that I picked up is simply amazing I don't know what fixture you have if it's the lx6100hv or the lx6200hv but both are amazing choices. After getting the mitras up and running ( I can share my project with you ) and creating a almost perfect project my sps are outstanding.

I have used many types of metal halide and vho combinations and from my point of view nothing compares to the Mitras. You made the right choice, be very careful with the intensity as this fixture is no joke. With all the flexibility that you have controlling each and ever led on the fixture the way you like it was not possible with the radion. I am not trying tell anyone that this is the perfect led fixture as I have only seen three of the top makers out there in person. But I love the program that comes with the mitras and all the bells and whistles. I really don't know what else to say but thank you to The ghl mitras team for an amazing fixture. The only draw back is the price for most of us but when you think about how much money we spend on sps the cost of the fixture out weighs that. I would recommend to anyone to buy the mitras with out hesitation.

The fixture is vey well made and really looks like its worth every penny. The cooling fans are silent and the fixture even tells you what temp it's at and the fan speed. You can even control ever thing from the fixture itself with ease in seconds. What I did find out the hard way is the ballast that runs it gets hot so be careful where you place it, but since I have a fish room it's not worries for me. I will also say that going from the radion with TIR lens the spread of the mitras is killer vs the radion no comparison at all. I am now getting light from end to end on my 30 x30 x 31 deep tank. I thought my maxima would suffer but boy was I wrong as she's crazy intense blue now like never before and the mantle is opened up perfectly, so I know the light is penetrating to the bottom of the the perfectly. Also with the radion I did get the disco affect on the sand bed and with the mitras the light spread is so even that it looks outstanding now. You know your tank looks perfect when the wife says WOW the tank looks great what did you do lol as for par reading at first I very low reading but that was my fault as I didn't adjust the spectrum correctly and hade the fixture to high.

Since I have lowered the fixture to exactly 8" above the water line and adjusted to high output at 100% I am getting at the water line with all LEDs on over 1150 par. This is way to much and I was seeing my sps bleach in a matter of a few days. So I lowered my intensity to 85% and tweaked the spectrum ( this is for when I have it at the highest setting ) when ramping up and now I am at 980. I could never get this correctly with the radion and believe me I am a sps nut. I will say it again if you have the money buy the mitras as you will be amazed at what it can do. There is so much more I want to say but this is for another thread that I will be starting once I get my shipment of sps with in a couple weeks to show what it can do.
Good luck with your new fixture as I have no doubt you will be more then happy.

In closing the mitras is not a toy and seroius hobbies that what to move forward with serious reef keeping should highly consider this fixture. Most of the other fixtures that I have seen are really just mass marketed toys compared to the mitras. Sorry for being so blunt but I always say the truth when it comes to this hobby as most want just to capitalize on our passion.

Again if you want a copy of my graph it's on the last post of the mitras club page

Michael

 

[d2mini]

I have used many types of metal halide and vho combinations and from my point of view nothing compares to the Mitras.

This is quite a bold statement.

I'm curious as to what you mean by it, because the only thing you talked about was the programming, all the "bells and whistles" and how your coral look when under them. I can take any of my coral and put them under a black light bulb and they will look great. This is why when you go to an event like MACNA, all the vendors are running blue leds, it makes the colors pop like a unicorn on acid farting rainbows.
But what about the important stuff like growth, color and overall health of your sps?
Looking forward to your thoughts a year from now.

 

[jthao]

Thanks percula. I'm glad you're sharing your thoughts with me. I appreciate you being honest about your opinion and I'm glad that you think I made the right choice.

I bought 3x 6100hv for an elos 160xl. I'm going to mount them vertically next to each other across the tank instead of the traditional horizontal way. The tank is 63x31.5x23.5T. I think that having 3 will help me to not have to blast them and help to cover all areas in the tank from edge to edge.
I will need help with programs once the tank is up and running and the lights are over the tank. For now, they're making my room look like a club. Lol

I havnt had a chance to do anything with them besides let it run default programs and storms and etc in my room. But I will say that as far as the build quality, I can easilly see that they are built very well. I myself like the metal outer construction and my favorite part is that it's such a small footprint for such a powerful light. Also the LCD controls on the side is also awesome as I have the profilux and the program is exactly the same layout, makes it easier to undestand and work with.

There are things that made me say "wth?" But then all fixtures I've had the opportunity to play with, all had a little of that. Some more than others. Lol. I will say that this light did have the least "wth".
I'll report back in a few months when I have it running on my tank.

Thanks again for your opinion percula!

 

[trueblackpercula]

This is quite a bold statement.

I'm curious as to what you mean by it, because the only thing you talked about was the programming, all the "bells and whistles" and how your coral look when under them. I can take any of my coral and put them under a black light bulb and they will look great. This is why when you go to an event like MACNA, all the vendors are running blue leds, it makes the colors pop like a unicorn on acid farting rainbows.
But what about the important stuff like growth, color and overall health of your sps?
Looking forward to your thoughts a year from now.

Hey d2,

Well where do I start? Ok here we go as I will do the best I can to describe my thoughts about this led fixture without taking away from the OP thread.

I have only have the fixture a short while but the growth of my sps looks normal, when my friends come over they all say wow about how my frags have encrusted. But I can't say with the short amount of time that the mitras that growth is good or bad. But I do I've some pictures I took and will start a thread to to show growth shots. As for the color of the sps they never looked so intense before, they have that slick looking florescent look to them under the more 20k spectrum.

I gather your asking if the mitras or any led fixture will keep sps growing and happy is this correct? Well if so then yes there are many led fixtures that will do this, I just happen to have the mitras now and it's amazing this is why I posted what I did. Not to take away from the Radion but they are two different light fixtures all together. One does that and one does that but in the end only one can be over my tank.

Now as for metal halide vs LEDs well there are many threads about this and I am not getting into this debate here, but will share my experiences in a nut shell. MH and vho combination works very well as most are trying to replicate the spectrum on the led fixtures including myself. The problem with them is not the color or growth they give of it's the heat, electricity bill and replacement of the bulbs yearly and with vho or t5 is 9 months.

When you add up the cost of what mh with actinic supplement there is not comparison for me. Also mh and vho or t5 combination do work well, it's just not for me anymore and I get to change my light spectrum through out the day that not only feeds my sps is pleasing to my eyes.

I think that once the led company allowed the user to have complet control over every led in there fixture the mh and t5 or vho combination became obsolete. They reason I say this is because it is already proven not only by me but every single seroius reef tank junkie that LEDs are the future and do color up and grow corals. I will say it again as this is about the mitras vs radion and there is no comparison the mitras wins hands down.

I wish you all the best of luck and anyone else looking to buy a led fixture as there are a few that are amazing. I will say that if I was looking again I would have the same result. Draw back is the mitras is now going up in price so the mitras club will not be growing as fast. Oh by the way I have been in the hobby well over 20 years and have seen many different light sources and combinations. Yes mn and vho or t5 combinations are (was) amazing for its time but with newer LEDs and technology I can't image what's next.

Hope this helps and please do not hesite to send me a pm with more question.

Michael

 

[jthao]

I thought that I'd update this thread with some info.
I've had the Mitras for a couple of weeks now and havnt got a chance to actually use them. But I could not get them to work on a Mac with parallels running windows 8. Only a few people with computer knowledge was able to do it, even on the Aquarium computer forum, GHL gave up with getting the Mitras to work on Mac with windows 8.

So I went out and bought radion G3 pros and a reeflink. I'm getting rid of all ghl products, not saying they're not good, cuss I havnt even used it. But I think the radions are just a lot more user friendly for non tech savy guys like me. As for the actual lights themselves, I'll do a side by side comaprision of them. Mitras 6100hv vs radion G3 pro.

Imo, The construction and actual lights in my hand, the mitras still seem more robust and better built. But I will say that the radions looks more refined and more modern, the mitras are a little more industrial looking and feels like that too. The mitras just seems like they'll past a drop test vs the radions probably won't. But we aren't gonna drop these lights anyways, lol. I do like the look of the radions a lot. They definitely look a lot more like something built in 2014, vs the mitras do look like an older led unit from few years ago, which they are.

Overall, I think id be happy with either, and having them both Right now is a hard choice for me. But just the programmability of the radions alone makes me steer that route. also ghl is just barely getting into web based cloud controllability, vs the Ecotech products have already been doing it for a while now. And to me, whatever works best on my Mac is the choice that wins it for me. I thought I can make it work, but just couldn't do it without going out and buying another laptop with windows os.

Thanks to all those that post their experiences! Wether you know it and believe it or not, it helps out many out there like me that has to make a choice before dropping thousands of dollars, unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know which id consider myself, I had to get both to know which to go with. And even after buying and owning both, it's still a hard choice. Lol. I will say that if it was a choice between the mitras or the gen2 radions id go with a mitras, but these G3 pros are really stepping up the game. but what do I know, I'm just a reef junkie writing all this at 5am without sleep for 24hrs. Haha

 

[AQD_ottawa]

Hi

Many thanks for all the great feedback I know GHL will be very enthused by the reports.

Mitras its very hard to give any real feedback if they have never been used. That being said I and GHL understand he headaches with Mac this is why they are launching MY GHL a FREE clould based software that is planned for release at the end of this year. GHL are not going to invest in making dedicated software for MAC when everything is going cloud, so they held off until the cloud was ready I am going to assume and I beleive was the right decision.

Couple of worthy points are that yes you are right, the units are very robust, not a single unit warranty failure in over 2 years on the Mitras and that includes power supply.

Thank you for a very well balanced review, I do hope you will get the Mitras set up so you can compare effectively, we all would love to see this review, your posting so far is very informative. I hope also my shared info on "MY GHL" is of interest.

 

[trueblackpercula]

I thought that I'd update this thread with some info.
I've had the Mitras for a couple of weeks now and havnt got a chance to actually use them. But I could not get them to work on a Mac with parallels running windows 8. Only a few people with computer knowledge was able to do it, even on the Aquarium computer forum, GHL gave up with getting the Mitras to work on Mac with windows 8.

So I went out and bought radion G3 pros and a reeflink. I'm getting rid of all ghl products, not saying they're not good, cuss I havnt even used it. But I think the radions are just a lot more user friendly for non tech savy guys like me. As for the actual lights themselves, I'll do a side by side comaprision of them. Mitras 6100hv vs radion G3 pro.

Imo, The construction and actual lights in my hand, the mitras still seem more robust and better built. But I will say that the radions looks more refined and more modern, the mitras are a little more industrial looking and feels like that too. The mitras just seems like they'll past a drop test vs the radions probably won't. But we aren't gonna drop these lights anyways, lol. I do like the look of the radions a lot. They definitely look a lot more like something built in 2014, vs the mitras do look like an older led unit from few years ago, which they are.

Overall, I think id be happy with either, and having them both Right now is a hard choice for me. But just the programmability of the radions alone makes me steer that route. also ghl is just barely getting into web based cloud controllability, vs the Ecotech products have already been doing it for a while now. And to me, whatever works best on my Mac is the choice that wins it for me. I thought I can make it work, but just couldn't do it without going out and buying another laptop with windows os.

Thanks to all those that post their experiences! Wether you know it and believe it or not, it helps out many out there like me that has to make a choice before dropping thousands of dollars, unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know which id consider myself, I had to get both to know which to go with. And even after buying and owning both, it's still a hard choice. Lol. I will say that if it was a choice between the mitras or the gen2 radions id go with a mitras, but these G3 pros are really stepping up the game. but what do I know, I'm just a reef junkie writing all this at 5am without sleep for 24hrs. Haha

Well I have a really good project to load on your mitras if you can borrow laptop. Let me know and I will send it and even help you set it up.
Michael

 

[Matthias Gross]

But I could not get them to work on a Mac with parallels running windows 8. Only a few people with computer knowledge was able to do it, even on the Aquarium computer forum, GHL gave up with getting the Mitras to work on Mac with windows 8.

There are Mac users who connect to the Mitras using parallels and GHL Control Center, this is not a miracle or an unresolvable problem.
After having a few thousand Mitras out there and a MacOS market share of approx. 8% there are a few hundred Mac users with a Mitras for sure. Related to this the support quote is quite low and the majority uses GCC without issues. We also have GCC running here on 3 Macs.

Anyway, GHL does not give up on a support case as you stated. I don't know when happened what but I ask the support team to check. You can help me to speed things up when you PM me the link to that thread. In complicated cases or when the user has not much PC knowledge we even support via Remote Desktop - so I am confident that problem can be solved.

I know that the Mac guys don't like to use Windows software and everyone is talking about "the cloud". That's why we decided to start our MyGHL service end of this year.
To access the Mitras over the web you'll need our new "GHL-bridge" which connects the Mitras with WiFi, coming also this year. Details will follow.

 

[audiofile18]

basically the same light with a few different led colors. Like most high-end lamps they all uses cree for main lighting. It took me about 6-8 months to realize sps's don't do well with leds. Now i'm back to mh/t5 and the sps's are looking great again after only a month....if your keeping leathers and zoas you will be very happy with leds.

+1

 

[AQD_ottawa]

Both GHL and Ecotech have a catalogue of clients with SPS tanks doing very well so this really is not a true picture.

Every tank is different, from my own experience I have come across numerous cases where the coral keeper (often inexperienced) thinks LED lighting is the miracle for keeping SPS. Its not! what is far more important than lighting no matter what you use is water chemistry and coral feed.

Lighting no matter what you use MUST always be the final piece of the puzzle not the first or even the second

 

[unze]

Originally Posted by chsub View Post
basically the same light with a few different led colors. Like most high-end lamps they all uses cree for main lighting. It took me about 6-8 months to realize sps's don't do well with leds. Now i'm back to mh/t5 and the sps's are looking great again after only a month....if your keeping leathers and zoas you will be very happy with leds.

What rubbish, I have seen many tanks using LEds for a long time and they all look great,. i have used leds for 4 years and never had a issue,

 

[jthao]

There are Mac users who connect to the Mitras using parallels and GHL Control Center, this is not a miracle or an unresolvable problem.
After having a few thousand Mitras out there and a MacOS market share of approx. 8% there are a few hundred Mac users with a Mitras for sure. Related to this the support quote is quite low and the majority uses GCC without issues. We also have GCC running here on 3 Macs.

Anyway, GHL does not give up on a support case as you stated. I don't know when happened what but I ask the support team to check. You can help me to speed things up when you PM me the link to that thread. In complicated cases or when the user has not much PC knowledge we even support via Remote Desktop - so I am confident that problem can be solved.

I know that the Mac guys don't like to use Windows software and everyone is talking about "the cloud". That's why we decided to start our MyGHL service end of this year.
To access the Mitras over the web you'll need our new "GHL-bridge" which connects the Mitras with WiFi, coming also this year. Details will follow.

Mathias, you guys clearly stated on your website that Mac os Mavericks will not connect mitras. And you have no solution on your website. I have stated very clearly that the profilux and the gcc works fine on Mavericks with parallels. You're stating the obvious.
I'm not a computer geek, but I'm also not a dummy. I've tried eveything anyone has suggested and it did now work. All suggestions from users not ghl reps. I've posted a total of 2 problems on rc regarding my GHL equipment, both times, no one from ghl ever helped me. I got help and suggestions from the community. Only time you guys ever come on here to say anything is to back up your product and tell everyone how great it is. Look at how many responses I got from a GHL rep on any of my issues (0), and look at how responses I get from ghl rep when I tell the world problems I have with ghl products and things I don't like (at least 2-3 so far!!!) BRAVO!!!
I will note that Ottawa does answer emails promptly and try his best, but he's NOT ghl, and therfore I completely understand that he will not have all the answers to product problems.
And I don't have a problem using windows 8, but I will not go out and buy a pc based laptop just so I can program the lights. Although doable and not too expensive, pc laptops can be had for $400, it's a waste of money because I'll never use it besides for ghl products.
I'm simply choosing to go radions and apex because:
1) US products and I can easilly get someone on the phone if I have problems
2) the support for both products is phenomenal and a huge community of answers to all issues.
3) they both work well together on Mac os Mavericks, "for me" on os Mavericks only profilux works, Mitras does not.
4) I can easilly get parts and supplies for both through my lfs and my lfs carried both of them in stock.

I've never said ghl products suck or that they don't work well. All my issues are even before I get to use the products on my tanks. So I'm not qualified to comment on the actual units usage experience.
Currently I have a Mitras and a radion gen3 pro on my 4ft frag tank. I will post my opinions and my observations on this thread once I get a chance to do a side by side comparison of both lights.