Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build
- Thread starter EnglishRebel
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Wheel of Time
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Just read through the thread and am taggin along now. Pretty impressive. You clearly have put an incredible amount of thought into the process before the first drop of water. Nice work.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Thanks Eric. The equipment room is pretty much finished. There's water, sand, and cured LR in the fuge and cured LR in the QT tank. Pump is circulating through the sump but I'm not running the skimmer yet as there is no load (nitrites and nitrates are near 0).
Drew.
Meet me on the corner and I'll slip you a few photos.
Update will come later today.Thanks a lot. Yes I did plan this thing for about 5 years :eek2: I finally retired so I can devote more time to the hobby (and not have to rely on my wonderful wife to take care of the tank while I was away on a business trip
)
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
UPDATE (That'll make Drew happy )
I had to make a modification to the drain from the fuge. If you remember I had a hose connected to the outlet that went straight downhill to the sump. If you didn't remember here's a reminder.
The problem was that the water falling over the weir caused bubbles and they immediately went down to the sump and as the intake for the pump was in the same chamber, they got sucked in. I tried balancing the flow into the fuge by closing the ball valve that feeds it from the main pump manifold. I closed it enough such that the overflow box got about two thirds full. The bubbles did not make it to the bottom and hence to the sump. The only problem was that the water flow through the fuge was too high.
Here's how I modified the drain.
Look familiar? It's basically a Durso without the bleed hole. So when the pump shuts off the water in the overflow box syphons into the sump. The drain restarts okay but I don't like the fact the all the air that the air when the syphon finishes stays in the sump and gets pulled into the pump intake. So I'm off to Lowes again today (so what's new ) to pick up a tee and a cap. I will replace the female adapter with a tee and a cap on top into which I will add a John Guest fitting and a length of 1/4" hose that will be submerged just below the water line that I want to maintain in the overflow box. This way when the pump shuts down the syphon will break as soon as the water level uncovers the hose and allow air in.
As I mentioned in an earlier reply, the skimmer venturi and the gasket arrived and so I could finish the plumbing. Here's what it looks like.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=skimmer.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/skimmer.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the massive amount of micro bubbles it creates.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=bubbles.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/bubbles.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Impressive huh. :eek2: I made up some supports for the rock in the fuge. I glues 1/2" rod to 1/4" sheet. The rods are 3" long and I cut a point on the end on my bandsaw. I have two 4x4 plates at the back of the tank which have 5 rods and a 4x12 at the front with 12 rods. Here's the big one.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=rocksupport.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/rocksupport.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the fuge with sand, rock, and water. I got some sand from an established tank to seed the bed (thanks Frank).
)I had to make a modification to the drain from the fuge. If you remember I had a hose connected to the outlet that went straight downhill to the sump. If you didn't remember here's a reminder.
The problem was that the water falling over the weir caused bubbles and they immediately went down to the sump and as the intake for the pump was in the same chamber, they got sucked in. I tried balancing the flow into the fuge by closing the ball valve that feeds it from the main pump manifold. I closed it enough such that the overflow box got about two thirds full. The bubbles did not make it to the bottom and hence to the sump. The only problem was that the water flow through the fuge was too high.
Here's how I modified the drain.
Look familiar? It's basically a Durso without the bleed hole. So when the pump shuts off the water in the overflow box syphons into the sump. The drain restarts okay but I don't like the fact the all the air that the air when the syphon finishes stays in the sump and gets pulled into the pump intake. So I'm off to Lowes again today (so what's new
) to pick up a tee and a cap. I will replace the female adapter with a tee and a cap on top into which I will add a John Guest fitting and a length of 1/4" hose that will be submerged just below the water line that I want to maintain in the overflow box. This way when the pump shuts down the syphon will break as soon as the water level uncovers the hose and allow air in.As I mentioned in an earlier reply, the skimmer venturi and the gasket arrived and so I could finish the plumbing. Here's what it looks like.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=skimmer.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/skimmer.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the massive amount of micro bubbles it creates.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=bubbles.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/bubbles.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Impressive huh. :eek2: I made up some supports for the rock in the fuge. I glues 1/2" rod to 1/4" sheet. The rods are 3" long and I cut a point on the end on my bandsaw. I have two 4x4 plates at the back of the tank which have 5 rods and a 4x12 at the front with 12 rods. Here's the big one.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=rocksupport.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/rocksupport.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the fuge with sand, rock, and water. I got some sand from an established tank to seed the bed (thanks Frank).
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
UPDATE (That'll make Drew happy )
I had to make a modification to the drain from the fuge. If you remember I had a hose connected to the outlet that went straight downhill to the sump. If you didn't remember here's a reminder.
The problem was that the water falling over the weir caused bubbles and they immediately went down to the sump and as the intake for the pump was in the same chamber, they got sucked in. I tried balancing the flow into the fuge by closing the ball valve that feeds it from the main pump manifold. I closed it enough such that the overflow box got about two thirds full. The bubbles did not make it to the bottom and hence to the sump. The only problem was that the water flow through the fuge was too high.
Here's how I modified the drain.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=newoverflow.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/newoverflow.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Look familiar? It's basically a Durso without the bleed hole. So when the pump shuts off the water in the overflow box syphons into the sump. The drain restarts okay but I don't like the fact the all the air when the syphon finishes stays in the sump and gets pulled into the pump intake. So I'm off to Lowes again today (so what's new ) to pick up a tee and a cap. I will replace the female adapter with a tee and a cap on top into which I will add a John Guest fitting and a length of 1/4" hose that will be submerged just below the water line that I want to maintain in the overflow box. This way when the pump shuts down the syphon will break as soon as the water level uncovers the hose and allow air in.
As I mentioned in an earlier reply, the skimmer venturi and the gasket arrived and so I could finish the plumbing. Here's what it looks like.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=skimmer.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/skimmer.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the massive amount of micro bubbles it creates.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=bubbles.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/bubbles.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Impressive huh. :eek2: I made up some supports for the rock in the fuge. I glues 1/2" rod to 1/4" sheet. The rods are 3" long and I cut a point on the end on my bandsaw. I have two 4x4 plates at the back of the tank which have 5 rods and a 4x12 at the front with 12 rods. Here's the big one.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=rocksupport.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/rocksupport.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the fuge with sand, rock, and water. I got some sand from an established tank to seed the bed (thanks Frank).
I ordered some sand sifting little buggers from Drs. Foster & Smith. They should arrive in a few days.
)I had to make a modification to the drain from the fuge. If you remember I had a hose connected to the outlet that went straight downhill to the sump. If you didn't remember here's a reminder.
The problem was that the water falling over the weir caused bubbles and they immediately went down to the sump and as the intake for the pump was in the same chamber, they got sucked in. I tried balancing the flow into the fuge by closing the ball valve that feeds it from the main pump manifold. I closed it enough such that the overflow box got about two thirds full. The bubbles did not make it to the bottom and hence to the sump. The only problem was that the water flow through the fuge was too high.
Here's how I modified the drain.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=newoverflow.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/newoverflow.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Look familiar? It's basically a Durso without the bleed hole. So when the pump shuts off the water in the overflow box syphons into the sump. The drain restarts okay but I don't like the fact the all the air when the syphon finishes stays in the sump and gets pulled into the pump intake. So I'm off to Lowes again today (so what's new
) to pick up a tee and a cap. I will replace the female adapter with a tee and a cap on top into which I will add a John Guest fitting and a length of 1/4" hose that will be submerged just below the water line that I want to maintain in the overflow box. This way when the pump shuts down the syphon will break as soon as the water level uncovers the hose and allow air in.As I mentioned in an earlier reply, the skimmer venturi and the gasket arrived and so I could finish the plumbing. Here's what it looks like.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=skimmer.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/skimmer.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the massive amount of micro bubbles it creates.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=bubbles.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/bubbles.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Impressive huh. :eek2: I made up some supports for the rock in the fuge. I glues 1/2" rod to 1/4" sheet. The rods are 3" long and I cut a point on the end on my bandsaw. I have two 4x4 plates at the back of the tank which have 5 rods and a 4x12 at the front with 12 rods. Here's the big one.
<a href="http://s370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/?action=view¤t=rocksupport.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/ENGLISHREBEL/rocksupport.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Here's the fuge with sand, rock, and water. I got some sand from an established tank to seed the bed (thanks Frank).
I ordered some sand sifting little buggers from Drs. Foster & Smith. They should arrive in a few days.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Well that modification to the fuge drain didn't work. 
With the air line on the top it kept syphoning so I shut it off and I'm back where I started. Anyone with any good ideas on how to fix it?
With the air line on the top it kept syphoning so I shut it off and I'm back where I started. Anyone with any good ideas on how to fix it?
I have a similar situation - my solution is not very elegant but it works. I run the flow into a 3" filter sock - no more bubbles.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14246552#post14246552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnglishRebel
Well that modification to the fuge drain didn't work.
Great work, BTW. I really like the fittings you're using with that blue vinyl(?) hose. Must admit I've never seen them before. Neat.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Tom
Unfortunately I can't run it into a filter sock as the fuge return dumps into the same chamber as the main pump suction intake.
Pump suction on the left, fuge return on the right. This allows any pods a shortcut to the main tank without getting skimmed.
Unfortunately I can't run it into a filter sock as the fuge return dumps into the same chamber as the main pump suction intake.
Pump suction on the left, fuge return on the right. This allows any pods a shortcut to the main tank without getting skimmed.
tonyf
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14246552#post14246552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnglishRebel
Well that modification to the fuge drain didn't work.
Construct and install a proper Durso or Stockman inside the weir ... it doesn't matter that it exits from the side. Alternatively, block the lower bulkhead and drill a new one higher up ... the 'hook' of the Durso is installed inside the weir and the body of the Durso is outside. Like this ...
Tone
tonyf
New member
Nice bubbles ... solid white through the entire body.
Did you give the skimmer a vinegar bath to remove the manufacturing films from the pump and the acrylic work? Should start to give a good foam head in a couple of days.
You might want to reconsider the 'christmas tree' construction of pipework to the venturi. It is supporting quite a weight and non-centric force from the supply tube. Better to turn the venturi down just past the top flange and then install your union and hose tail.
Tone
edandsandy
Active member
Great work Alan!
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Tony<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14247497#post14247497 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tonyf
Nice bubbles ... solid white through the entire body.
Did you give the skimmer a vinegar bath to remove the manufacturing films from the pump and the acrylic work? Should start to give a good foam head in a couple of days.
You might want to reconsider the 'christmas tree' construction of pipework to the venturi. It is supporting quite a weight and non-centric force from the supply tube. Better to turn the venturi down just past the top flange and then install your union and hose tail.Tone
Yes I was surprised at the density of the foam but there again Jeff at LifeReef has been building these unchanged for 15 years.
No I didn't know that I had to rinse with vinegar.
I did run tap water through it for a while.The way it's plumbed is what Jeff recommends.
I asked Jeff about the Kent Marine float switch and he said that he has not had any fail. I will have a high and low level switch on the sump so it will alarm me. I could add a solenoid triggered by the switch. I deliberately sized the ATO tank so that if the float switch did fail it would not drop the salinity by much and I don't have my RO unit connected all the time -- only when I need to make a batch. Thanks for your concern though.
Thanks for the suggestion on the Durso. I have thought about that. What happens when the pump shuts down for feeding? I know that it will not empty the chamber as the elbow will become uncovered. Will the drain pipe to the sump completely empty?
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14247537#post14247537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Corndork2
Very nice Lifereef skimmer. I used to have a older VS3 and it was great. You have a very promising start to an excellent project
CornDork2
Thanks for the kind words. I picked LifeReef because of the fact he has been building the same design for 15 or more years so they must be good.
Sandy
Thanks a lot.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
I think I know how I'm going to fix the drain from the fuge. Tony got me thinking. I really don't want to drill the fuge drain compartment but I can have an acrylic box made by Frank at Reef Concepts that would be wide enough to accommodate a bulkhead at the bottom (about 3") to line up with the drain connection on the fuge. I would be the same height as the fuge (18") and about 6" long. On the opposite end to the drain connection I can add an internal drain connection consisting of a bulkhead with an upturned elbow to which I can attach the drain hose to the sump.
A bit elaborate to save drilling the fuge but it would work. The other issue with drilling the fuge is that it's not wide enough to install a bulkhead. Jeff at LifeReef glues in a female adapter which is smaller than a bulkhead. See here.
I would need to add a small shelf to support it but that's not a problem as there is plenty of room.
A bit elaborate to save drilling the fuge but it would work. The other issue with drilling the fuge is that it's not wide enough to install a bulkhead. Jeff at LifeReef glues in a female adapter which is smaller than a bulkhead. See here.
I would need to add a small shelf to support it but that's not a problem as there is plenty of room.
tonyf
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14252294#post14252294 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnglishRebel
Tony
Yes I was surprised at the density of the foam but there again Jeff at LifeReef has been building these unchanged for 15 years.
No I didn't know that I had to rinse with vinegar.
The way it's plumbed is what Jeff recommends.
I asked Jeff about the Kent Marine float switch and he said that he has not had any fail. I will have a high and low level switch on the sump so it will alarm me. I could add a solenoid triggered by the switch. I deliberately sized the ATO tank so that if the float switch did fail it would not drop the salinity by much and I don't have my RO unit connected all the time -- only when I need to make a batch. Thanks for your concern though.
Thanks for the suggestion on the Durso. I have thought about that. What happens when the pump shuts down for feeding? I know that it will not empty the chamber as the elbow will become uncovered. Will the drain pipe to the sump completely empty?
Ahh! that picture is what I was getting at regarding the pipework ... replace the barbed elbow with a suitable elbow, then a union (for quick release), and then a straight barbed hose fitting. Otherwise, there's a lot of torsional force acting on the elbow where it connects to the flange, and the associated fittings.
Regarding the Kent float valve, I had one of these for many years (still have it in the spare parts box) ... fault free ... and then one day a small snail got itself wedged in the wrong place. The top-up just carried on topping up (direct from the RO/DI filter ... that was a bad mistake) and flushed my tank overnight
The Durso overflow will operate just like any overflow standpipe. It doesn't matter whether you run it as a controlled syphon or simple overflow ... when the pupm goes off, the flow stops and whatever is in the downpipe discharges to the sump. When the pump starts up again it naturally restarts the overflow
tonyf
New member
Alan, regarding the proposed 'box' arrangements for your overflow from the 'fuge. Leaving the female socket as it is, glue a male elbow over it so that the 'spare' leg is vertical ... if you can get an elbow that is threaded internally at the 'spare' end that will be perfect. Construct your Durso or Stockman standpipe with a suitably sized 'male valve adaptor' glued to the end ... this will screw into the upturned elbow that has been glued to the female socket adaptor. Don't glue the headstock of the Durso or you won't be able to install it ... just press it on with a bit of pink (or white) plumber's thread tape to seal the joint. The whole standpipe can be stabilised with an acrylic flange holed to allow the stndpipe to pass through it and glued to the wall of the weir.
Does that make sense?
Tone
Does that make sense?
Tone
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14257461#post14257461 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tonyf
Alan, regarding the proposed 'box' arrangements for your overflow from the 'fuge. Leaving the female socket as it is, glue a male elbow over it so that the 'spare' leg is vertical ... if you can get an elbow that is threaded internally at the 'spare' end that will be perfect. Construct your Durso or Stockman standpipe with a suitably sized 'male valve adaptor' glued to the end ... this will screw into the upturned elbow that has been glued to the female socket adaptor. Don't glue the headstock of the Durso or you won't be able to install it ... just press it on with a bit of pink (or white) plumber's thread tape to seal the joint. The whole standpipe can be stabilised with an acrylic flange holed to allow the stndpipe to pass through it and glued to the wall of the weir.
Does that make sense?
Tone
Tony
Thanks for your suggestions
If you mean adding that to the inside of the overflow chamber of the fuge, then it's not possible as I can't get in there. It may not be clear on the photo but the chamber is only about 2" wide and the eurobrace around the top is about 1-1/2" with the egg crate attached to the weir. This is why Jeff glued a female adapter in there instead of a bulkhead. If the bulkhead ever leaked you could never get to it.
See here:
I'm down to two options. Add the separate box so I can put a Durso or Stockman in there
or
Drill the overflow chamber and put in a simple open connection to drain (no standpipe but maybe a strainer if I can get one in there). I'm not concerned about gurgling noises but am concerned that an open connection will still cause air to be entrained and get in the sump which is what I'm trying to avoid. I believe that a Durso or Stockman does not do this right?
On your other comment about the skimmer, that photo is not correct as mine does have a union.
What I was trying to say is that the right angled hose barb, union, and venturi are meant to be configured that way. The fittings were all assembles by Jeff and all I had to do was attach it to the skimmer water inlet. There is really no force acting on that assembly as the hose connecting to the sump is very flexible.
Hope that clarifies things but thanks for your comments.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
I think what I'm going to do is remove that contraption and put a gate valve on the exit connection of the fuge. I can then regulate the exit flow to maintain the water level in the chamber that I need. This way I will not have to rely on a syphon restarting after the pump is turned on after feeding (when I'm upstairs and cannot see if it did or not).
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