Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build

[tonyf]

^ Alan, That's a great close up of the weir, I see what you're getting at with the lack of hand space inside the weir. IMHO, you don't want to get involved with syphons in any form.

Be mindful of the gate valve option should it become obstructed by a snail or something ... which could lead to the 'fuge overflowing. I like the external upstand idea much better with a simple modification ... extend the upstand and install a T on the end so that it has one vertical exit and one side exit. The level of the invert of the side exit should be roughly where you want the level of the water in the weir to be. The open 'top' leg prevents a syphon forming which will empty the weir quick-smart. This is just another adaptation of the Durso standpipe and allows for completely natural water flow ... volume in = volume out and no valves to worry about. Put a piece of sponge into the open top to control the gurgling sound.

HTH,

Tone

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14264763#post14264763 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tonyf
^ Alan, That's a great close up of the weir, I see what you're getting at with the lack of hand space inside the weir. IMHO, you don't want to get involved with syphons in any form.

Be mindful of the gate valve option should it become obstructed by a snail or something ... which could lead to the 'fuge overflowing. I like the external upstand idea much better with a simple modification ... extend the upstand and install a T on the end so that it has one vertical exit and one side exit. The level of the invert of the side exit should be roughly where you want the level of the water in the weir to be. The open 'top' leg prevents a syphon forming which will empty the weir quick-smart. This is just another adaptation of the Durso standpipe and allows for completely natural water flow ... volume in = volume out and no valves to worry about. Put a piece of sponge into the open top to control the gurgling sound.

HTH,

Tone

Tony
Thanks. I'm not worried about gurgling as it is in the basement. I have a question. You say put a tee with one leg up and one horizontal. That means the pipe exits the bottom of the external box. Will this allow air to still be drawn into the overflow from the horizontal leg as this is what I'm trying to avoid.

 

[tonyf]

Alan, This is, indeed, a vexing issue. What does the manufacturer suggest?

I think that you will need to allow some air to be drawn in to prevent a syphon being created. The water through the 'fuge should move quite gently so the issue of micro-bubbles, I believe, is not a consideration to be overly concerned about. 'Un-enhanced' natural flow is a positive thing to promote natural equilibrium in the hydrodynamics.

In order to mitigate the formation of micro-bubbles, the external riser (upstand) and plumbing can be increased to say 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" diameter by simply introducing a reducer (turned the other way around) at the base of the riser. At slower flow velocity this should prevent the exiting water from filling the pipe bore.

This however doesn't fix the problem at the bottom of the drop down to the sump. The water crashing down from that height will create bubbles of some sort. Do you think that the reduction in diameter of the socket (bulkhead) into the sump is sufficient to cause the water to back up the pipe and slow the water down?

Whatever you do, you won't be able to prevent the rise in the water level in the sump in the case of a power outage. Using the 'bastardised' Durso, you will be able to mitigate the volume of water discharged into the sump.

The only sure-fire way that I can see, is to locate the 'fuge above the display and gravity feed the water from the 'fuge into the display. That means the return from the sump will be split, part going to the 'fuge. This is also the most layout recommended by the gurus

HTH,

Tone

 

[EnglishRebel]

Tony
I spoke to Jeff at LifeReef and these fuges are intended to be at the same elevation as the sump so water levels are the same in the outlet chamber as the sump so there are no problems.
I agree I don't want to rely on a syphon restarting and I don't want bubbles in my sump because the main pump will chop them up and they will get in the main tank as micro bubbles.
I'm going to order a 1" gate valve and put this on the outlet of the fuge to maintain a water level where the bubbles from the weir do not make it to the outlet.
It's essentially the same as throttling back on the supply but as I have a ball valve it is difficult to fine tune. By closing the supply ball valve until the water in the outlet chamber is right down to the outlet fitting (low flow) then closing the gate valve until I get the right water level is the way to go. It's the KISS principal -- Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[EnglishRebel]

Okay, I'm rethinking this -- again . Since getting a clean up crew the snails have a penchant for climbing up over the egg crate weir and I'm aftraid they'll get stuck in a partially closed gate (or ball) valve and stop the flow.
Here's plan K.
I have ordered a small (8Lx8Hx3D) acrylic box from Frank at Reef Concepts. It will be located on the wall beside the outlet chamber of the fuge. I will connect the outlet of the fuge to the bottom of the box. I will add a standpipe in this box with a strainer on the top at a height such that its water level is where I want the level in the fuge outlet chamber (controlled by the supply ball valve as I do now). This way water levels in both the box and the outlet chamber of the fuge will find the same level and if a snail happens to get over the weir and find its way to the box I can retrieve it as the strainer will prevent it from getting to the sump.
Hope this makes sense. I will post a picture when it's done.

 

[GlassReef]

Sounds like your on the right track, Alan. Don'tcha hate it when everything is going perfectly and then some small glitch stops you in your tracks?

The best laid plans of mice and reefkeepers ....

 

["Umm fish?"]

Interesting idea, Alan, but I'm not sure that I completely get it. I look forward to seeing the pictures.

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14291927#post14291927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GlassReef
Sounds like your on the right track, Alan. Don'tcha hate it when everything is going perfectly and then some small glitch stops you in your tracks?

The best laid plans of mice and reefkeepers ....

Yes Tom. However in this case I should have forseen it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14292206#post14292206 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by "Umm, fish?"
Interesting idea, Alan, but I'm not sure that I completely get it. I look forward to seeing the pictures.

Andy
Yes it's a little confusing but as they say 'a picture is worth a thousand words'. I'll post one later this week.

 

[tonyf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14291686#post14291686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnglishRebel
I have ordered a small (8Lx8Hx3D) acrylic box from Frank at Reef Concepts. It will be located on the wall beside the outlet chamber of the fuge. I will connect the outlet of the fuge to the bottom of the box. I will add a standpipe in this box with a strainer on the top at a height such that its water level is where I want the level in the fuge outlet chamber (controlled by the supply ball valve as I do now). This way water levels in both the box and the outlet chamber of the fuge will find the same level and if a snail happens to get over the weir and find its way to the box I can retrieve it as the strainer will prevent it from getting to the sump.
Hope this makes sense. I will post a picture when it's done.

Sounds like a good plan, Alan

 

[erics3000]

Cool idea on the box.

 

[EnglishRebel]

I need to get up to Franks place to pick it up -- probably Thursday as I have to pick my wife up from her office after lunch as she refuses to drive if there is one snowflake to be seen anywhere (and we had about an inch yesterday afternoon). She went in with our neighbor this morning. I am waiting on a couple of strainers so it should be done by Friday. I will put a tee on the drain line so if a snail makes it through to the box and wraps himself around a strainer I will have a backup (I know I'm anal retentive). :lol:

 

[erics3000]

nothing wrong with that in this hobby...actually i think it is preferred as long as we don't forgot about the KISS and cause more things that can go wrong..that damm Murphy..Who is that guy anyway. hehhehe

 

[slapshot16]

Great work. Tagging along.

 

[blondie0954]

realy like this build good to see an ex pats tank over their will follow this build with interest cheers adrian

 

[4jlong]

Looks like this is going to be a very nice system ....tagging along!

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14315554#post14315554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by erics3000
nothing wrong with that in this hobby...actually i think it is preferred as long as we don't forgot about the KISS and cause more things that can go wrong..that damm Murphy..Who is that guy anyway. hehhehe

Yes, if people knew where he lived his life would be hell.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14316829#post14316829 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slapshot16
Great work. Tagging along.

Thanks Slapshot16 -- hockey fan huh.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14318968#post14318968 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blondie0954
realy like this build good to see an ex pats tank over their will follow this build with interest cheers adrian

Thanks there Blondie . Carlise huh -- much snow there? I spoke to my daughter who lives in Redditch last Monday and they had a couple of inches but were expecting 8 more that night. :eek2: She's due to fly to Inverness next Monday as she is organizing a seminar in Aviemore. Hope she can get there okay.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14320330#post14320330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 4jlong
Looks like this is going to be a very nice system ....tagging along!

Appreciate that 4jlong. I'm awaiting the tank but am getting antsy. I ordered it on 12/31 and was told 5-6 weeks. Found out that was after the received the glass which is on order. so I don't have a current delivery date. I'm planning on my annual trip back to England in late May -- early June but can't book my flight until I know when the tanks is coming.

 

[blondie0954]

we had 6 inches on monday but all gone now do you find hobby cheaper over their compared to england. and still loads of snow in scotland

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14322872#post14322872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blondie0954
we had 6 inches on monday but all gone now do you find hobby cheaper over their compared to england. and still loads of snow in scotland

I never had a reef tank in England so have nothing to compare it with. I will say that in general things are more expensive in the UK. When my kids used to come visit they would load up on sneakers and jeans and such. A pair of Nikes in England are about twice what they cost over here. Your 17.5% VAT versus our NC sales tax of 6.75% makes a difference too (and if you order online like I do there is no sales tax).
Look on the US websites to get a good price comparison.
:beer:

Oh and BTW in case no one has done so yet.
[welcome]

 

[EnglishRebel]

Okay, the box is in (thanks Frank) and plumbed. It's basically doing what I wanted -- no restriction on the gravity return, no syphon, and a place where stray snails can get trapped (with a backup overflow in case the snail blocks the strainer). The only problem is that the standpipe is acting like a Durso, which I always knew was quiet but didn't realize that it creates bubbles in the overflow water (should have known from last weeks marathon bubble elimination quest over at Jeffs). I still had bubbles in the sump which can get sucked into the pump intake. So what I did was add a baffle where the fuge water returns to the sump so any bubbles have to go up before they go down to the pump intake. Works great. Pictures to follow this weekend when I get them uploaded to PhotoBucket.

 

[EnglishRebel]

Okay here's an update. If you remember I was having a problem with the fuge water flow. Because the outlet of the fuge is higher than the sump, when the flow from the fuge was where I wanted it (fairly low) the water level in the overflow compartment was very low. As a result the water falling down over the weir created a lot of fine bubbles that then flowed down to the sump where they were sucked into the inlet of the pump creating micro bubbles.
In order to stop this I had to keep the water level in the overflow compartment high so that the bubbles never made it down to the outlet. This meant I was running too high a flow through the fuge. The first modification I tried was this.

I modified this a little by adding a tee and a cap to the top (like a Durso), but the effect was the same -- it was a syphon. I didn't want to rely on the syphon forming when I turned the pump back on after feeding the fish so I needed a way to maintain a level in the overflow compartment high enough to prevent bubbles from getting to the sump but at the same time maintaining a low enough flow rate through the fuge.
So I came up with this configuration.

Frank at Reef Concepts made this acrylic box that measures 8x8x5. I connected the outlet of the fuge to the box and then the box to the sump. The box is located at such a height that the inlet of the standpipe tee is where I want the water level in the overflow compartment. I initially had a cap on the top of the tee to create a Durso. I didn't realize at the time that a Durso only quietens the water and does not eliminate bubbles. You may can see the bubbles coming out of the el in the sump.

So I installed a baffle so the bubbles have to go up (and dissipate) instead of directly to the intake of the pump. So I still had bubbles in the sump but they are no longer a problem. What I do have is a low flow through the fuge which is what I was aiming for.
I guess you could say that I could have installed the baffle in the sump to start with and fixed the problem that way. Yes you may be right, but one thing I have noticed is that the bubbles caused by the water falling in the overflow compartment were a lot smaller than the ones coming from the "box", which are few and large.
Anyway what I now have is an ERSI -- an EnglishRebel Snail Interceptor which I may patent. :lol: :lol: I took the cap of the top of the tee so that if a snail happens to get stuck around the strainer on the main outlet, then the rising water will go down the open top of the tee.

Rube Goldberg anyone?? :strange: