Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build

[WaterKeeper]

RO water and white vinegar is fine for glass cleaning Alan. I guess you will just fill it with the RO/DI and mix the salt in the tank. It is empty so it won't hurt anything. It would be wise to plain water test it as a leak with seawater is a mess to clean up. Just keep your fingers crossed.

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14758604#post14758604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
RO water and white vinegar is fine for glass cleaning Alan. I guess you will just fill it with the RO/DI and mix the salt in the tank. It is empty so it won't hurt anything. It would be wise to plain water test it as a leak with seawater is a mess to clean up. Just keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks Tom. The only bulkheads are in the overflow so I can test that while it's in the basement. If I have leaks from the seams - SW or FW I will have BIG problem. :eek1:
BTW is salt water more difficult to clean up because of the residue it would leave?

 

[WaterKeeper]

Sure is and if you have carpeting near the tank it becomes crunchy after it drys. :eek1:

 

[teesquare]

Alan-
Just jerking your chain a bit - no intent to offend <G>....
*BUT* as a side note the concerns over anaerobic areas forming are much greater than the reality.
And - again I will apologize pre-emptively to anyone choosing to dis-agree. I respect everyone's option to have a different opinion:

For many years I have run tanks with DSB's (Deep Sand Beds).
Some with plenums and some without. Not ONE TIME did I ever have issue with anaerobic build up in any of the numerous tanks that I set up or maintained for myself - or others.
And- frankly - I also had less problems with nitrates when using them Plenum driven DSBs.
So- remember, there are MANY ways to accomplish your goals. Do not be overly concerned with anecdotal successes or failures.
Read Bob Goemans web pages if you want to explore whether there should be real concerns about anaerobic activity in your
tank. There are others, but Bob is kind of the guru that I like on the subject.
The turn-over/flow rates you have described back in this thread somewhere will be sufficient to negate any anaerobic potentials. And - truly you want areas of anoxic zones. Which is what the flutes in the Corplast will become - just like what goes on inside live rock is both anoxic, as well as anaerobic de-nitrification to act in reducing nitrates.
Best of Luck Alan, I am looking forward to seeing the tank. You will be successful because you will study this subject I am sure.
You have done a nice job on your filter room too- I am a little envious.....<G>..
T

 

[plyr58]

^^^^^^^^^^ cough, SOAPBOX, cough


Personally, I would leak test the tank before you take it inside. How long did the tank sit and cure before they shipped it?

 

[tonyf]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761793#post14761793 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
... Read Bob Goemans web pages if you want to explore whether there should be real concerns about anaerobic activity in your
tank. There are others, but Bob is kind of the guru that I like on the subject.<G>..T

From what I am told by the aficionades, I am sorry to say that Goemans is one "guru" whose advice is best to avoid ... in particular about DSB's. IMHO, the leading light in DSB's and RDSB's is Calfo ... Bornman is another reputable guru in very good company of Delbeek, Sprung, Fenner, Hemdal, Fossa, Nilson, and a few others.

:eek1:

 

[teesquare]

Tony:
There are some "over-sized egos" among the supposed gurus in our hobby. And they all have things to add, that help us.
And I can tell you from knowing Sprung, Borneman, Goemans, and others that it seems more important to some of them to offer a different,opposing viewpoint, rather than an original thought - or heaven forbid to agree that the other "leader" in the hobby is right!
The problem is that human ego often gets in the way of sincere, pure dialog.
And, many, many times the castigated method ( in this case...DSB) is blamed for a tanks woes - when a thorough analysis would reveal that there were other factors which caused the underlying problems to point the hobbyist to the "bad old DSB".
I have seen "bare bottom" tanks that have all of the same issues of hair algae outbreaks, are difficult to maintain chemistry, etc. - but I don't tell the owner that they can't possibly be successful using this method.
Again - as I stated earlier, there are many roads to success. Pick the one you like. I have had using DSBs , and tanks without them - both do well, given they are managed in accordance with the perameters we create when we choose the given methods that we do. Just different - not really better or worse.
I am sure you have known of a hobbyist that set up a tank, and just could not keep it happy and healthy...? Yet, when you talk with him/her about what went wrong - it was a puzzle? This is the defining moment when we all tend to "reach for the blame jar" and pull out something anecdotal, without real proof - we just guess.
The tank featured in the 2001 MACNA conference program was one of mine. It was the poster, program cover and so on I just took it down 2 years ago to move into a new house. It had been set up for 7 years, heavily stocked DSB, no problems - but......................I am just "one guy"..........
Now - enough of the hijacking - I did not want to lose the focus that this is Alan's tank build thread
- Sorry Alan
T
T

 

[WaterKeeper]

:thumbsup: T²,

I've said that a DSB has been the scapegoat of tank mismanagement for years. There are tons of 10+ year DSB tanks that have been doing fine without any OTS. People just add a sandbed and forget about it and, when it is depleted of sand shifters, it does get dark and nasty. The problem is not in the method but in the way it is maintained.

 

[teesquare]

Absolutely true!
Thanks for the input - I was not aiming at you with my comments Tom.
I will bet you know - as do I some of the real "old timers" ( like I am not among that crowd HA!) that still keep fish and corals on an undergravel filter bottomed tank.
I would bet most reef hobbyists today may not even recognize an undergravel filter. Can you be successful using this method? I probably could not any more. I have become a bit lazy about the required judicious maintenance to do well with an undergravel filter.
But- I know a few that still do a great job using this "old and out-dated method".
So- again.....there are many roads to success. Pick the one that suits you best.
The older I get, the less I critisize and the more I tend to marvel at things like this.
If one understands the WHY and HOW something works, the more likely one will be happy with the results - IF they perform whatever due diligence is needed.

 

[WaterKeeper]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14764462#post14764462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Absolutely true!
I would bet most reef hobbyists today may not even recognize an undergravel filter.

Not if Paul B. has a say in the matter.

 

[spsfreak]

LOL, good call Tom.

 

[teesquare]

Paul B?

Paul B?

O.K. - somebody PM me to bring me up to speed... Looks like I missed a great laugh....................
T

 

[WaterKeeper]

Paul is almost as old as I am an is champion of the RFUGF (reverse flow undergravel filter). Had a tank up and running for 35 years using one. Paul's Tank Thread

 

[teesquare]

Sounds like a potential hero..............
I have always had a soft spot for folks that manage to thumb their nose at "latest and greatest" thinking with old fashioned pragmatism.
Think I can get Pauls autograph ??? <G>?
T

 

[WaterKeeper]

Probably, especially if you tell him you got me to give up on DSB's.

 

[teesquare]

Too funny!!!!
T

 

[EnglishRebel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14760050#post14760050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
Sure is and if you have carpeting near the tank it becomes crunchy after it drys. :eek1:

Tom
Crunchy !!!! That sounds munchy.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761793#post14761793 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Alan-
Just jerking your chain a bit - no intent to offend <G>....
<G>..
T

No problem T

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14762936#post14762936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by plyr58
^^^^^^^^^^ cough, SOAPBOX, cough

Personally, I would leak test the tank before you take it inside. How long did the tank sit and cure before they shipped it?

Drew
I sat for about a week. I am concerned about filling the tank before it's on a firm stand. Right now its sitting on 1/2" white polystyrene foam on top of 1/2" OSB which in turns sits on the 2x4 of the "crate" base. I don't think that's strong enough to support the tank full of water. What do you normally do with large tanks?
Thanks

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14764150#post14764150 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
:thumbsup: T²,

I've said that a DSB has been the scapegoat of tank mismanagement for years. There are tons of 10+ year DSB tanks that have been doing fine without any OTS. People just add a sandbed and forget about it and, when it is depleted of sand shifters, it does get dark and nasty. The problem is not in the method but in the way it is maintained.

Tom
I have about 4" in my Fuge and after about six weeks the bottom is starting to turn dark. Should I be concerned? I don't see any activity in the sand bed (not worm tunnels), should I get some more critters and if so what? All I have are snails and hermits. Some of the snails bury themselves in the sand but no too deep -- maybe only the top 1".

 

[WaterKeeper]

Alan,

No need for concern, the bed darkens as it matures and oxygen level decline in the lower strata. There are two ways to get sand shifters into the bed. You can add true LS or add a detrivore kit. Either provides organisms to seed the bed.

 

[EnglishRebel]

Tom
What's a detrivore kit? I already have snails and hermits, are detrivores different? My crew doesn't get deep in the sand bed. Do I need sand sifting stars or worms?
Thanks

 

[WaterKeeper]

You hit it with your own post Alan. Detrivores kits vary with different suppliers but usually contain bristle worms, mini starfish, copepods, mysid shrimp and possibly mini sea cucumbers. Burrowing organisms that move the bed and help keep it clean.