Usually Alan, most rock will increase pH, especially LR that is artificially made from cement. However, I'm not ruling out the the rock could cause a decline in pH but it is doubtful.
Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build
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EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
I just bought some frozen cyclops to feed my clowns. I added about half a cube to the tank after thawing it and now I have the back and side glass covered with pods. I thought because they were frozen they would be dead. How come they are suddenly alive after being thawed out?
???
I doubt they came from frozen food but have no idea. Don't worry, be happy.
I doubt they came from frozen food but have no idea. Don't worry, be happy.
"Umm fish?"
Premium Member
They were probably in your tank and came out in response to food smells. Congratulations!
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
I know......... SUSPENDED ANIMATION you never heard of cryogenics?
JRF
New member
Alan
My ph over the last week or so is hovering around 8.0 with the RC mix. Whenever I do a partial water change ( which I have not done on this new tank of course ) is I mix the salt up, roll the bucket around, pour it from one bucket to another because if you dont use a whole bucket some "settling" may have occured and the parameters may not be what they should.
I know that is not your issue right now but just advice when the time comes..
By the way, Have you thought about excess CO2 in your house causing the low ph ? LOL..just kidding...:lol:
My ph over the last week or so is hovering around 8.0 with the RC mix. Whenever I do a partial water change ( which I have not done on this new tank of course ) is I mix the salt up, roll the bucket around, pour it from one bucket to another because if you dont use a whole bucket some "settling" may have occured and the parameters may not be what they should.
I know that is not your issue right now but just advice when the time comes..
By the way, Have you thought about excess CO2 in your house causing the low ph ? LOL..just kidding...:lol:
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Jeff
The last water I made (160 gallons to fill the tank) came from the 200 gallon mix box and it has 4 bags of 50 gallon mix each. I guess I could dump all bags into a bucket but I'd rather keep them sealed. BTW I'm going to try Oceanic salt the next batch I buy.
Alan:
I was given a buck of Oceanic salt last year, and have using it for the last 6 months or so in a 28 gal Nano Reef. It mixes and clarifies readily, which is nice.
It has worked fine, and my kh/ph have remained great. If anything a little higher than I expected/liked. But - in truth, I have always used Reef Crystals before - and never had a problem either, and will probably use Reef Crystals in my new tank.
I don't think the live rock is sucking your ph down as it is made from old calcerous material, and in general should help support the water chemistry we seek.
Just as an experiment - do you have an air pump and airstone you could place in the sump and really aerate the water ovenight?
I was given a buck of Oceanic salt last year, and have using it for the last 6 months or so in a 28 gal Nano Reef. It mixes and clarifies readily, which is nice.
It has worked fine, and my kh/ph have remained great. If anything a little higher than I expected/liked. But - in truth, I have always used Reef Crystals before - and never had a problem either, and will probably use Reef Crystals in my new tank.
I don't think the live rock is sucking your ph down as it is made from old calcerous material, and in general should help support the water chemistry we seek.
Just as an experiment - do you have an air pump and airstone you could place in the sump and really aerate the water ovenight?
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Tony
Been there, done that. I had a double air stone in the sump before the tank got here (so it was about 70 gallons of water in the system) sucking air from outside the window for two days. It raised the PH from 7.65 to 7.7. Big deal.
Today it's down to 7.66. I have no idea what's going on here. During a new tank cycle I didn't think that the PH should vary -- Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates yes.
I just mixed up the Soda Ash (the Alk portion of the two part system) and programmed my Profilux dosing pump for a daily dose to see what effect it has.
JRF
New member
The Ph should not change just because of a cycle, unless you are doing crazy things like throwing all kinds of chemicals in the tank during the cycle, which is best not to do. I know you are not doing that , just trying to get the ph up...maybe just let the tank cycle and settle in for a while before you go all out chemical warfare. I on the one hand almost never does chemicals. The only additive I does is via a calcium reactor...I know that things can get out of hand when using lots of chemicals...just my 2 cents...
"Umm fish?"
Premium Member
I'm using Oceanic this time around because I can get it easily here instead of having to mail-order (Tropic Marin before). I have no complaints.
Alan, why not just mix up a small batch of kalk and drip it through an IV setup and see what happens? It's cheap and as long as you add it slowly I can't see it hurting you much. And it certainly helps to raise pH. If it doesn't help, you're not out much. If it does, you can decide then if you want to go with a stirrer and doser setup.
It just sounds like something in your two-part/buffer situation isn't quite right. Especially as you say you aren't in an over-sealed home.
I personally think that it's really important to keep pH and Alk at the higher end of the ranges and just let the calcium fall where it may after that (usually between 325 and 350). All those fish are constantly producing acids and you want alk in the water to be able to absorb them easily so the pH doesn't flop around. pH issues are really hard on the fish.
Alan, why not just mix up a small batch of kalk and drip it through an IV setup and see what happens? It's cheap and as long as you add it slowly I can't see it hurting you much. And it certainly helps to raise pH. If it doesn't help, you're not out much. If it does, you can decide then if you want to go with a stirrer and doser setup.
It just sounds like something in your two-part/buffer situation isn't quite right. Especially as you say you aren't in an over-sealed home.
I personally think that it's really important to keep pH and Alk at the higher end of the ranges and just let the calcium fall where it may after that (usually between 325 and 350). All those fish are constantly producing acids and you want alk in the water to be able to absorb them easily so the pH doesn't flop around. pH issues are really hard on the fish.
Unless I am missing something, then either all the rock is cured or, if uncured, not curing in the tank. It is not at all unusual for curing rock to produce an acid environment but in this case I believe everything has gone past that period. What is the pH on the mixed ASW before anything is added to it and before introduction to the tank?
WaterKeeper, excellent point. If it's low before it goes into the tank then the problem exists outside the display/sump/etc.
Alan, have you had anyone come by and test your PH with their probe?
I have been through this where I thought I was getting a low PH reading 7.8 then a fellow reefer who had access to some high end water testing equipment measured the PH and it came out to be 8.2. Low and behold my reading were incorrect, imagine that. I've had experience with bad calibration fluid, bad probes, and incorrectly calibrated PH probes. Just my experience....
A quick check can be made if you dose KW. The saturated solution will have a pH of between 12.4 and 12.5 at normal room temperature.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Tom
All the 30 lbs of LR was fully cured and the Eco Rox (unlike Marco Rock) doesn't need any curing. Some of the cured rock does have what I would call "dark brown rust areas". This may not be anything. The PH of my tap water is 7.2 and new salt water is 8.2.
I'm not dosing anything from the two-part (I just set it up) except SeaChem buffer. It raises the PH (as well as the alkalinity to 6 Meql) but it doesn't stay there but for a day and then starts to fall back. Midday today it is 7.77.
Ron
I have two meters (the one with the RKE and a Hanna hand held). Both have been carefully calibrated half a dozen times. I even put the probe back in the 7.0 and 10.0 buffer solutions after calibration and they both read spot on. I'm going over to Jeffs this evening and see what his PH is using the Hanna.
Jeff
I'm just going to sit back for a while and see what happens. My clowns look happy, the corals look good. Maybe I'm being too much of a engineer (and I'm sure Tom has some amusing repartee about engineers :lol: ) as I think if my parameters aren't exactly as the book says they should be, then I assume something is wrong.
JRF
New member
Now you're talkin, and dont get me wrong, you should make sure your parameters are in-line, but no need to go crazy chasing numbers. All that will do is make you loose hair and go insane. If something is way out of line then fix it, but right now let the tank settle in for a while and finish the cycle..
Does the alkalinity fall too?
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Tom
No it doesn't. Before I started dosing buffer the Alkalinity was constant around 4.1/4.2. After I started dosing it went up to 5.9/6.0 and has stayed there, which is why I stopped dosing as the instructions said that if the alkalinity rose to 6.0 and the PH was not at 8.2 to do a water change to bring the ionic balance back. As I said in an earlier post a 160 gallon addition to the system volume constitutes a water change.
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