Englishrebel's 260 Gallon System Build
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EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
That will make a big difference.
You have any rock in the tank Alan?
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Tom
I put in about 150 lbs. of Eco Rox dry Fiji rock and then moved 50 lbs. of the same rock that had been in my fuge for about a month (being seeded with LR) plus about 20 lbs. of cured live rock from the same fuge. Today I put in a 5 lb. rock from a friend that was covered in Green Star Polyps. It also had about 20 mini brittle stars either in the rock or from the bag of water that it came in. I have a frogspawn, a torch, a hammer, a rock covered in mushrooms, a rock covered in zoos, as well as a rock covered with daisy polyps.
The 20 gallon fuge has about 10 lbs. of LR together with about 15 lbs. of the Eco Rox that has been in there for two months, plus a 55 gallon fuge with the same. Both fuges have about 4-6" of sand beds. All are connected to the same water column. The 55 gallon has an outbreak of what looks like brown algae on the back glass. The 20 gallon and 55 gallon fuges have a very fine green algae (not hair algae) on the rocks that is being grazed by the crabs
Sorry for all the information but I wanted to get it all recorded. I dosed another 5 teaspoons of buffer (enough for 200 gallons) this afternoon and my PH is at 7.82. I will test for alkalinity in the morning before dosing any more.
Parameters:
Temperature: 78.5 (no more 82 since connecting display tank).
SG: 1.026
PH: 7.82
Ammonia: 0.01
Nitrates: 2.00
Nitrites: 0.05
Calcium: 450
Magnesium: 1300
Alkalinity: 9.6 dKH (not tested since beginning dosing buffer).
"Umm fish?"
Premium Member
The pH, ammonia, and nitrites are a little worrisome. Looks like you are having another little cycle. You already cycled the fishroom tanks, right? Sorry. My memory is a sieve.
JCurry
New member
EnglishRebel,
Your reef is coming along nicely, I'm very interested in your results with the LEDs. Did you get the mogul base ones from AquariumLED? If so how do they compare to the AI modules? I have similar mogul based LED bulbs to the AquariumLED but they were made by a different manufacture. They are 28 x 1 watt LEDs and man they are bright! The color was said to be true 65K but looks more like 10 k to my eyes. I am thinking of supplementing them with 3x 80 watt T5s just to get the blue color to make the corals pop. I'll be following your reefs progress please take alot of growth pictures. Thanks.
Your reef is coming along nicely, I'm very interested in your results with the LEDs. Did you get the mogul base ones from AquariumLED? If so how do they compare to the AI modules? I have similar mogul based LED bulbs to the AquariumLED but they were made by a different manufacture. They are 28 x 1 watt LEDs and man they are bright! The color was said to be true 65K but looks more like 10 k to my eyes. I am thinking of supplementing them with 3x 80 watt T5s just to get the blue color to make the corals pop. I'll be following your reefs progress please take alot of growth pictures. Thanks.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Andy
The low PH has been a problem from day one but am now addressing it by dosing with buffer initially and then maintaining it with Alk (balling method -- Alk, Calc, and Mag). When I first started these were my parameters:
Ammonia: 0.025
Nitrites: 0.05
Nitrates: 2.00.
Ammonia never really got to zero but I need to get a better test kit (I have a Red Sea) as the Ammonia color for 0.00 is Yellow and for 0.25 is light green and my test is yellow with a very light tint of green. Also the Nitrate reading doesn't bother me (according to Delbeek and Sprung higher levels can encourage SPS and LPS growth).
Nitrites should be 0.00 but again my test result shows a sort of greeny-blue (green is 0.00 and blue is 0.05). I'm having a hard time matching colors as the results are never one color of the other and I have to make a judgment as to which side it's leaning. Is there a test kit with smaller graduations as it would make life easier?
I never really had a cycle in the downstairs tanks. I think it was because I used fully cured LR. I do have a very light green algae growth on the rock and in the 55 I have a brown algae growth on the rear glass and the PVC inlet pipe.
JCurry
I don't have the Aquarium LEDs yet (they are waiting on delivery from Europe). The ones I'm getting are 60 watt and are supposed to be equivalent to a 150W MH. I ordered the mogul bases from them as well.
"Umm fish?"
Premium Member
Aha! Yeah, I hate colorimetric test kits. Evil little things. Sounds like you should be fine then aside from the pH.
Mine did the same thing: Ca, Alk, Mg, are all fine but my pH was too low. Kalkwasser is really helping me. Over the last ten days or so with the kalk stirrer going, mine has slowly climbed up to around 8.3 later in the tank's day.
Mine did the same thing: Ca, Alk, Mg, are all fine but my pH was too low. Kalkwasser is really helping me. Over the last ten days or so with the kalk stirrer going, mine has slowly climbed up to around 8.3 later in the tank's day.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Andy
I dosed the buffer again this morning and my PH is at 7.8 but my Alk is around 5.9 and the buffer instructions says not to let it go over 6.0 or you see cloudiness in the water that doesn't dissipate after 20 minutes. I'm not sure if that is an either or, or both. Maybe WaterKeeper can chime in?
It goes on to say that if the Alk reaches 6.0 and the PH has not got to 8.2 then there is an ionic imbalance (is that Greek thing
) and goes on to say do a water change to correct it. Well I just added 150 gallons of NSW so I think that qualifies as a water change don't you. This whole chemistry thing is testing (no pun intended) my patience. I have two fellow reef keepers who use the same salt (Reef Crystals) and their PH is 8.2. I don't get it. 
I think it's time to fire up the Profilux pumps and start dosing Kalk and Alk BTW I love those macro shots of the Elegance Coral. I really want one of those. Are they considered difficult to keep? Love the Madarins too -- you must have a ton of pods in your system. :rollface:
It is all the heavy breathing going on at your house Alan. 
In this day and age our air tight homes are a haven for high CO<sub>2</sub> levels. This causes that ionic imbalance to which the buffer instructions refer. Getting some outside air into the room should cause that pH to climb. See Low pH, Causes and Cures for more on the problem.
In this day and age our air tight homes are a haven for high CO<sub>2</sub> levels. This causes that ionic imbalance to which the buffer instructions refer. Getting some outside air into the room should cause that pH to climb. See Low pH, Causes and Cures for more on the problem.Alan, have you tested the water coming out of your RODI unit to measure the PH? Also have you tested a sample of your saltwater outside your home to see if the same readings are occuring? This test will help in determining if the issue is CO2 in your house or other factors. Randy Holmes-Farley has an excellent article on this problem somewhere here is RC world. Link below and many more can be found in the reef chemistry forum. Awesome resource...both Randy and the articles.
Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm
Could be the calibration of your PH probe? Just a thought.
Many variables to weed through....
Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm
Could be the calibration of your PH probe? Just a thought.
Many variables to weed through....
"Umm fish?"
Premium Member
Tom's the man! 
Elegance are incredibly easy to keep _if_ you can find a healthy one. There's a nasty disease somewhere between the collectors in southeast Asia and the wholesalers in LA. Basically, if you get a coral that's been exposed to the disease than the elegance is going to die. People who have made special arrangements with collectors in Indonesia and had their corals bypass all of those tanks seem to get healthy ones.
Fortunately, there seems to be a different pipeline from Australia to the U.S. and people seem to be having good luck with the Aussie elegances (fingers crossed). So, if you can get an Aussie elegance and if it hasn't been dumped into an infected tank along the way, then your odds are pretty good. They need fairly low flow and _like_ to eat. A lot. They are pretty closely related to Euphyllias (hammers, frogspawn), but eat a lot more than their cousins, from what I can tell.
I try to keep copepod cultures going all the time so I can supplement. But, there are still tons of them in there.
Elegance are incredibly easy to keep _if_ you can find a healthy one. There's a nasty disease somewhere between the collectors in southeast Asia and the wholesalers in LA. Basically, if you get a coral that's been exposed to the disease than the elegance is going to die. People who have made special arrangements with collectors in Indonesia and had their corals bypass all of those tanks seem to get healthy ones.
Fortunately, there seems to be a different pipeline from Australia to the U.S. and people seem to be having good luck with the Aussie elegances (fingers crossed). So, if you can get an Aussie elegance and if it hasn't been dumped into an infected tank along the way, then your odds are pretty good. They need fairly low flow and _like_ to eat. A lot.
They are pretty closely related to Euphyllias (hammers, frogspawn), but eat a lot more than their cousins, from what I can tell.I try to keep copepod cultures going all the time so I can supplement. But, there are still tons of them in there.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14956468#post14956468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
It is all the heavy breathing going on at your house Alan.
Tom/Ron
We're too old for the heavy breathing stuff.
I did read the RHF article and a mixed cup of new SW aerated outside the house gave a PH of 8.1. My issue is that I have a twenty year old house and Jeff (JRF) has his tank in the living room of his house (which is about the same "tightness" as mine), his sump is in the closet and his PH is 8.2 with the same salt.Before I added the display tank I had the window of the equipment room open 24 hours a day and the PH was still low.
I can't be the only person who lives in a normal house who has a low PH. I know the effects of CO2 but maybe something else is coming into play here. Could my rock have iron in it that's making the water acidic?
Any other ideas other than "read Randy Holmes-Farleys article, who (together with WaterKeeper) I have the upmost respect for? Tom, I don't mean to cast your suggestion aside without regard but I'm looking for other ideas here.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14956797#post14956797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by "Umm, fish?"
Tom's the man!
Elegance are incredibly easy to keep _if_ you can find a healthy one. There's a nasty disease somewhere between the collectors in southeast Asia and the wholesalers in LA. Basically, if you get a coral that's been exposed to the disease than the elegance is going to die. People who have made special arrangements with collectors in Indonesia and had their corals bypass all of those tanks seem to get healthy ones.
Fortunately, there seems to be a different pipeline from Australia to the U.S. and people seem to be having good luck with the Aussie elegances (fingers crossed). So, if you can get an Aussie elegance and if it hasn't been dumped into an infected tank along the way, then your odds are pretty good. They need fairly low flow and _like_ to eat. A lot.
Andy
Tom's definitely (as they shout a golf events) You Da Man.
I think he's some kind of chemist. :lol: Thanks for the info on the Aussie corals.
Well I would suggest a couple of things before I start dosing mounds of pickling lime into my sump (been there, done that) aka Kalkwasser .....good ole Mrs Wages.
First I would get an independant reading from a fellow reefer who might bring over his ph probe and concur with your results. If in-fact, the do match, then I would start looking at your calcium and alk readings and determine that they are in fact what your reading. Test kits can be a little tricky and there are some less preferable kits out there.
So I would make sure all your readings jive and are vetted against a control group...aka the fellow reefer taking independant measurements using his or her kit....mainly calcium, dkh, and Mg tests.....you can throw SG in there as well using a refract or digital monitor.
If you find that your measurements are within acceptable tolerances to what your measuring then I would say look at other areas such as iron in the rock....
I am very sure there are wiser folks than I on the chemistry front but this is how I would approach it.
Something seems to be way off given the low Ph prior to dosing....
First I would get an independant reading from a fellow reefer who might bring over his ph probe and concur with your results. If in-fact, the do match, then I would start looking at your calcium and alk readings and determine that they are in fact what your reading. Test kits can be a little tricky and there are some less preferable kits out there.
So I would make sure all your readings jive and are vetted against a control group...aka the fellow reefer taking independant measurements using his or her kit....mainly calcium, dkh, and Mg tests.....you can throw SG in there as well using a refract or digital monitor.
If you find that your measurements are within acceptable tolerances to what your measuring then I would say look at other areas such as iron in the rock....
I am very sure there are wiser folks than I on the chemistry front but this is how I would approach it.
Something seems to be way off given the low Ph prior to dosing....
Well, he is using a widely used salt mix, has the alkalinity way up and still has low pH. Almost any additive I can think of will bring the alkalinity up as well as the pH. I tend to doubt the rock is the cause but you could take a small chunk and set up two small test vessels. Fill both with newly made saltwater and place the rock in one. After a day or so, test pH and see if the one with the rock gives a lower result.
If it does, then you have a good project for the next school science fair.
If it does, then you have a good project for the next school science fair.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14957907#post14957907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
If it does, then you have a good project for the next school science fair.
Tom
I am too old for school.
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