Feeding Large Predators, Please Read

[EdKruzel]

If you're the one doing the filleting, then sure. Just be sure it wasn't something sitting in the sun all day, fresh is best.

If parasites are a concern and the fish will accept frozen (prepared foods) then that's the way to go. Otherwise you can go with a "FreshWater" dip before using the live.

 

[acoff87]

i would be doing the filleting, i dont like wasting any thing. i often feed my mantis shrimp fish scraps and rib meat. i figured it would be safe for the fish, just wanted a second opinion.

 

[Everyones Hero]

I've had my juvenile Zebra Lion for just over a week now. She won't eat. I've tried krill (which I heard can cause lockjaw after the fact), mysis, blood worms, brine shrimp, oyster & silversides, including whole, half, & just the heads rolled in garlic. Tonight I even tried a Golden Barb (FW fish that swims near the bottom of the tank.)

The 1st night it seemed to go after 1 piece of mysis, which I know is nowhere near enough to fill her up.

She started moving around & acted like she was stalking when I tried the oyster, but she was stalking a different part of the tank.

Tonight I added the Barb & it swam right at the bottom in the current of the powerhead just below where the lion was perched. The lion swam off, came back, then went away again. I filled a 5g bucket with SW from the tank, added the lion, then added the FW fish again. It paid NO interest to it. Again it seemed to stalk/attack but it was towards open water.

I'm going to say the body is about .5-.75" wide & the head is about twice as wide.

I'm waiting for the ghost shrimp to come in so I can try those. I know a week isn't very long, but I don't know when the fish last ate & I don't want it to starve.

 

[EdKruzel]

Juveniles can be very hard to start and the glass shrimp (gut loaded) are best to use; krill are okay once the fish begin to take prepared foods as long as you soak them in a vitamin supplement first.

Observing the body is how to determine health/need to to eat. Juvies are naturally thin, but if the abdominal region looks pinched, then it is imperative they eat.

Be careful that in your attempts you don't add so much food to the water column that it becomes waste and fouls the water. Lions are not true aggressive predators, they're ambush predators on prey small enough to fit in its mouth. If you have boisterous tankmates, it may keep the lion from feeding. Placing the lion in a bucket is also very stressful and will not help either.

 

[Everyones Hero]

So it is okay to feed krill? I heard it could cause lockjaw.

Most of the uneaten food gets pulled out or the Nass snails get it.

It's the only fish in a 55g (soon to be 75g.) I'm not adding anything else until it's eating & I know it's healthy.

 

[EdKruzel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15538402#post15538402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Everyones Hero
So it is okay to feed krill? I heard it could cause lockjaw.

In most cases of what's identified as "lockjaw" is from a physical injury such as the fish striking prey on a bare bottom or the side of the tank. Krill is a common food in the sea but as with many prey items it is considered an "empty" source; one with little to no nutritional value. Soaking freeze dried krill in a vitamin supplement such as Selcon makes it a healthy snack. Variety is the key once your lion begins feeding.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15538402#post15538402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Everyones Hero
I know it's healthy.

That's an educated guess at best. On the outward appearance you can tell if the skin has lesions or tattered and ripped fins or attached parasites (not common with lions) or if the eyes are hazed over and the all important sign of the abdomen region. (As I mentioned earlier, you don't want a pinched or sunken abdomen, but you wouldn't want it over extended either). What you can't tell is if the lion has a blockage (minor not severe) due to eating FW fish that it can't properly digest, or if it has an internal parasite or bacterial infection. Many of the outward symptoms don't appear until it's too late.

With lions there should be regular, almost constant movement in search for food; we should never feed our fish so much that they become bloated and need to perch. Check your nitrates and ensure they are below 10ppm. Attempt to feed your lion every other to every third day until it begins to feed. If it is a very small specimen (body mass of no more than 4''s) then it will need daily small portions of food. (Again, after it begins to feed of course). As a maturing "teenager" in the 6-8'' range it should still eat 3x's a week and once it reaches full maturity, I'd only feed it twice a week. When placed in another tank, or tankmates added, it will learn to grab a morsel or two in between its regular feedings.

 

[Everyones Hero]

Thanks again for the information.

Is Selcon really that good? They sell it at work for around $20, which I thought was nuts for a little vial of garlic juice.

There are a couple of spots in the tank that she seems to like more than others. She'll perch for a little while then move to another spot.

I've been keeping the lights off & I know my nitrates are high. I was battling an algae problem so I was raising the Mg level prior to doing a water change.

edit: Go figure. I get the Volitan Lion at work to eat prepared foods & I can't get mine to. :mad2:

 

[Everyones Hero]

I knew my nitrates were on the high side so I did about 20g worth of water changes yesterday.

Tonight I came home & the lion was behind one of the rocks, but it looked like it was lunging towards something on the rock. I don't know what it was going after, but then it started moving around the tank.

I took a cube of blood worms & added them little by little. It looked like it was at least attempting to grab a few bits, but it wasn't very aggressive. Is it normal for them to stretch their mouths? A few times it would open it's mouth real wide & then chomp down, but without lunging forward.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15539266#post15539266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Everyones Hero
Is Selcon really that good? They sell it at work for around $20, which I thought was nuts for a little vial of garlic juice.

Selcon isn't garlic juice It is combination of essential fatty acids and vitamins. Excellent for boosting the nutritional content of foods.

 

[Everyones Hero]

I see. Come to find out we don't sell Selcon at work, but I found it online for $7+shipping. What we sell at work is the Kent Garlic Extreme, which is about $20 after shipping.

I just turned my lights back on for the 1st time in about a week. She was out & about, presumably looking for food. I'll try some more blood worms before I go to work tomorrow.

I really do appreciate the information & help. I've wanted a lion fish since before I even bought my first piece of equipment (other than the book I got) & now that I have one I want to make sure it does well.

I have a fairly large Chromis & a Lawnmower Blenny that I'd like to put back into the tank, but I don't know if it's a good idea. The Chromis is probably a good 3" tall & just as long. Doubt it would ever fit in it's mouth but I don't know. I thought I had read that the lion wouldn't mess with the Blenny. Is there any truth to that?

 

[Everyones Hero]

Today I went by work & we still didn't get any ghost shrimp in so I went to the LFS I used to go to on a weekly basis.

They had a ton of them in & they were only 4 for $1 so I picked up 4.

3 of them were empty & the 4th was full so I netted it & added it to the tank. It swam past the fish & the fish immediately turned around & gulped it down.

Now my question is this- how many can I/should I feed a juvenile Dwarf Lion per day? This is the 1st thing it's really eaten in nearly 2 weeks.

 

[Exiledonmainstr]

I buy frozen squid, octopus, clam, scallop, oyster, shrimp, crab and sardines from my local Chinese market. I thaw in water to remove/dilute thr phosphorus and nasties in the packing water and then drain and soak in vitachem. I have kept healthy and happy predatory salt water fish for a decade like this. My 2 morays eat the exact same as well. I have always been against freshwater feeders in any saltwater tank. Poor nutritional value and just a bad idea. My 2 cents. Best of luck to all.

 

[EdKruzel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15570871#post15570871 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Everyones Hero

Now my question is this- how many can I/should I feed a juvenile Dwarf Lion per day? This is the 1st thing it's really eaten in nearly 2 weeks.

Feed just enough to notice a slight bulge in the abdominal region; in a juvenile animal this should digest within a 24hr period. As the fish identifies you bringing food to the tank (classical conditioning) it will begin to wait near a close top portion of the tank. This is the opportunity to introduce prepared food items. As an example, using a net to release the ghost shrimp the lion identifies the net with food items. After a period of time when the lion begins to rapidly approaches the net, place a cut piece of table shrimp or other prepared food item (slightly smaller than a ghost shrimp) in the net and release it as well. Remove any uneaten pieces so that it doesn't foul the water quality.

 

[Everyones Hero]

Thanks. It has already identified the green net as food. I put the net in front of the powerhead & let it blow the shrimp out.

It shows interest in other foods but has only taken a tiny piece of shrimp that had some legs attached.

I'm going to have to go to Wal-Mart to get the ghost shrimp because no where else is going to carry them. I don't necessarily want to get them from Wal-Mart, but I don't have any other choice. Hopefully there will come a place & time when the fish just happens to take something else.

I was hoping that by spearing krill & shaking it in front of the fish until the eel takes it would help, but nope. Now it's even seen another animal take prepared foods & still doesn't show any interest.

 

[AquariumGuy]

very informative article. I am a new aquarium hobbyist, but would like to advance to keeping predator fish some day.

 

[Diablo4]

That is fine; however damsels are quite crafty, before dumping one in a tank for a larger fish to eat, cut a fin off or a piece of the tail.
The wounded fish will have less chance of finding cover and the erratic swimming behavior will entice a feeding response.

Ed

Lmao. Great tip lol I am soo going to use that one Ed thanks. My yellow headded Morrray eel catches the green chromis but usually as I am sleeping. Maybe I will get to observe him hunting more. I feed him from a stick. Or from hand occasionally just to hear to shreiks of observers lolol.
A little history. I got into fish after part of my ongoing pack of rotties challenged me for alpha. I get bit 18 times 2 dogs. The eel is in a tank I'm good with that. I get bit my fault. I don't like snakes but the eel grabbed my intrest. Only had him a month on a 125 g. With a blueline trigger and harlequin tuskfish. The tuskfish I may remove in future if trigger messes with him. The trigger is small 4 inches. Plan on moving all into a larger tank and and somthing else then. Suggestions? I like reagal angels for angels.

 

[LPino]

Great information in this thread and the article. Will be using this.

 

[cherubfish pair]

New to hobby. Can you explain the difference between Ghost shrimp, glass shrimp and Salt Water feeder shrimp? If you have the cash can you offer a cleaner,coral banded, clown etc or other type of shrimp as food for say a Tusk, Trigger,Puffer or even a Lion?

Thanks in advance.

I'm looking for an on-line source of live feeder shrimp, possibly marine in origin. We live 100 miles from the nearest LFS. I would like to feed live shrimp to a small moray, BTA and maybe a flame hawkfish (I heard they love live foods). Bluezoo aquatics sells live marine feeder shrimp (Penaeus vannamei) and liveaquaria sell live ghost/glass freshwater shrimp but both vendors rarely have them in stock.

 

[EdKruzel]

Those are common names that usually stand for the same animal, or often the same name can describe 2 or 3 different species. If you are lucky enough to find a regular supply to supplement your feeding, be sure to gut load them before adding to the main system.

 

[cherubfish pair]

Can some species of freshwater shrimp ever be acclimatized to saltwater?