Has anyone tried any of the new NLS Chloroquine food yet?

[GroktheCube]

They're calling it "Ick Shield". Basically, 1mm NLS pellets with Chloroquine.

I ordered some. My 40b QT will be empty of fish in a couple weeks, and then I'm going to see if I can find something I want that has obvious ich (but is still eating) at an LFS to give it a whirl. They suggest 21 days, but I'd probably take it out to 28 just to be on the safe side, and then let the fish sit in QT for 12 weeks or so.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Where did you see this at?

 

[HumbleFish]

Dr. G's has a frozen food formula that contains CP. It doesn't eradicate ich because CP is very bitter tasting, so some fish will flat out refuse to eat it. Or they don't eat enough of it for the medication to have any impact. Those who refuse to eat it continue to serve as hosts and ich's life cycle continues unabated. Dosing CP directly into the water column forces fish & ich to deal with the full impact of the medication, whether they like it or not (just ask wrasses). Unfortunately, dosing CP is not coral/invert safe.

 

[GroktheCube]

Where did you see this at?

Was announced at MACNA.

Already on sale. I ordered it from Marine Depot: http://www.marinedepot.com/New_Life...w_Life_International-NL83808-FIFDDRPT-vi.html

NLS says that the active ingredient is chloroquine.

Dr. G's has a frozen food formula that contains CP. It doesn't eradicate ich because CP is very bitter tasting, so some fish will flat out refuse to eat it. Or they don't eat enough of it for the medication to have any impact. Those who refuse to eat it continue to serve as hosts and ich's life cycle continues unabated. Dosing CP directly into the water column forces fish & ich to deal with the full impact of the medication, whether they like it or not (just ask wrasses). Unfortunately, dosing CP is not coral/invert safe.

I know chloroquine tastes horrible, and I know the food will be useless if the fish don't eat it.

NLS claims they've added flavor enhancers. We'll see.

 

[ca1ore]

Dr. G also has a CP-laced food they call 'anti-parasitic caviar'. Not frozen, but does require refrigeration. I tried it briefly, but my Hippo quickly learned to not eat it ..... Fortunately the ich in my tank has proven to be manageable so no drastic action has yet been necessary.

Funny thing was, one of my LFS highly recommended it saying they had eliminated ich from one of their displays - and the fish did look clear. Unfortunately the next time I was in the tangs in the tank showed ich symptoms.

 

[chrisneill1987]

so they are marketing this as a reef safe medication to help keep cyto under control?

 

[Deinonych]

They also have a product called Hex Shield that uses Metronidazole. I might pick this up to have on hand for QT.

 

[GroktheCube]

so they are marketing this as a reef safe medication to help keep cyto under control?

Kinda sorta. They say to remove all uneaten food, and make sure none of it even touches corals or nems. They suggest turning off all flow and feeding in an empty part of the tank. Based on what I've read, oral chloroquine should IN THEORY be reef safe, though I would not even consider feeding this in a reef tank.

My experiment is just going to be a 4 week treatment of a known ich infected fish in QT using this food, followed by 12 weeks of observation. I know most people recommend just 8 weeks after treatment with drugs to verify crypto has been cured, but I'd rather take it out to 12 to be safe. Hopefully I'll be able to get a fish in treatment by the end of the month.

They also have a product called Hex Shield that uses Metronidazole. I might pick this up to have on hand for QT.

That might be even more useful, given that crypto alone is fairly easy to treat with either two weeks of TTM of four weeks of copper. Getting fish to eat food laced with metro isn't always as easy, IME.

What I'd really like to see is a complete deworming food. Something with Prazi along with Levamisole, and maybe Fenbendazole too.

 

[HumbleFish]

Another thing to consider:

You are feeding your fish CP laced food. It doesn't completely eradicate ich in your tank for the reasons outlined above. At some point in the future, you have to treat these fish by dosing CP in a QT - but that doesn't work either. The strain of ich your fish are fighting is now resistant to CP because of being exposed to low levels of it in the food.

 

[Deinonych]

Another thing to consider:

You are feeding your fish CP laced food. It doesn't completely eradicate ich in your tank for the reasons outlined above. At some point in the future, you have to treat these fish by dosing CP in a QT - but that doesn't work either. The strain of ich your fish are fighting is now resistant to CP because of being exposed to low levels of it in the food.

True, it doesn't eliminate the tomonts/theronts in the tank. However, if it does kill the trophont stage as they claim, it should still break the life cycle, no?

 

[Deinonych]

My experiment is just going to be a 4 week treatment of a known ich infected fish in QT using this food, followed by 12 weeks of observation. I know most people recommend just 8 weeks after treatment with drugs to verify crypto has been cured, but I'd rather take it out to 12 to be safe. Hopefully I'll be able to get a fish in treatment by the end of the month.

Excellent. Please keep us informed of your findings!

 

[HumbleFish]

True, it doesn't eliminate the tomonts/theronts in the tank. However, if it does kill the trophont stage as they claim, it should still break the life cycle, no?

Assuming every single fish in the tank eats enough of it to build up in their body whatever level of CP is required to kill trophonts.

My experiment is just going to be a 4 week treatment of a known ich infected fish in QT using this food, followed by 12 weeks of observation. I know most people recommend just 8 weeks after treatment with drugs to verify crypto has been cured, but I'd rather take it out to 12 to be safe. Hopefully I'll be able to get a fish in treatment by the end of the month.

I wish you the best of luck! Would you mind listing the ingredients (composition) when you get the product? I can't find that info anywhere online. Same goes for whoever buys Hex Shield first.

 

[GroktheCube]

Another thing to consider:

You are feeding your fish CP laced food. It doesn't completely eradicate ich in your tank for the reasons outlined above. At some point in the future, you have to treat these fish by dosing CP in a QT - but that doesn't work either. The strain of ich your fish are fighting is now resistant to CP because of being exposed to low levels of it in the food.

I'd only ever consider using this in a QT system, and would transfer to a cycled "clean" observation system after treatment was completed.

Has Crypto been documented developing resistance to CP? I've always assumed it was a possibility, but I've never seen any direct reports, anecdotal or otherwise.

I wish you the best of luck! Would you mind listing the ingredients (composition) when you get the product? I can't find that info anywhere online. Same goes for whoever buys Hex Shield first.

Thanks! When I commence the experiment I'll start a thread. It'll be at least a couple more weeks before I have an empty and clean QT, and then I have to find a fish on the "to buy" list that's infected.

I'll post up the ingredients when I get the food this week. I think it's probably standard NLS + added flavors (I'd imagine garlic, maybe some other spices) and Chloroquine.

 

[MorganAtlanta]

None of my fish would touch Dr Gs, even after several days without food. Hopefully you have better luck with the new stuff.

 

[HumbleFish]

Has Crypto been documented developing resistance to CP? I've always assumed it was a possibility, but I've never seen any direct reports, anecdotal or otherwise.

Just a theory of mine.

 

[Dmorty217]

None of my fish would touch Dr Gs, even after several days without food. Hopefully you have better luck with the new stuff.

Which is crazy since if you dose the tank with CP fish eat like crazy, you put it in food they want nothing to do with it

 

[HumbleFish]

Which is crazy since if you dose the tank with CP fish eat like crazy, you put it in food they want nothing to do with it

IME; fish eat normally when exposed to CP. However, most will refuse to eat nori after an hour in "CP water".

 

[GroktheCube]

Just a theory of mine.

It seems like a rational theory given that we know human protozoan parasites can develop resistance to it. I've always assumed it was possible, just never seen any evidence.

Which is crazy since if you dose the tank with CP fish eat like crazy, you put it in food they want nothing to do with it

My understanding is that CP tastes absolutely horrible.

I'm going to verify my guinea pig fish is eating well at the LFS before picking him up. I'm thinking maybe some sort of clown. IME they tend to be pretty aggressive eaters, and seem to tolerate chloroquine well. It's mostly wrasses left on my to-buy list, but I'm not sure I want to take that chance. For curiosity's sake, I may try feeding a little bit to my perfectly healthy fish in QT, just to see if they're willing to take it. NLS generally makes pretty solid products, and I'd hope they'd make this palatable, but we shall see.

 

[HumbleFish]

FWIW; I've always wanted to experiment on fish using CP - testing to see if the medication targets ich in all stages of it's life cycle. Lack of space and a wife has always prevented me from doing so. Perhaps I can live vicariously through you, after you've completed the NLS experiment.

 

[GroktheCube]

Got it today.

Active ingredient: 1, 4- pentanediamine, n4-(7-chloro-4-quinolinyl)-n1, n1-diethyl

Ingredients:
Whole Antarctic krill meal
Whole wheat flour
n3 fish oil
Spirulina
Chlorella
Ulva
Ginger
Ginseng
Onion
Cinnamon
Nutmeg
Cardamom
Vitamin A
Vitamin D
Vitamin E
Vitamin B12
Niacin
Folic acid
Biotin
Thiamine hcl
Riboflavin
Pyridoxine hcl
Ca pantothenate
Vitamin C
Choline cl
Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide
Cobalt so4
Ferrous so4
Mg so4

Crude Pro: 35% min
Crude Fat: 8% min
Crude Fiber: 6% max
Moisture: 10% max
Ash: 9% max

Vit A: 1600 iu/kg min
Vit D: 5000 iu/kg min
Vit E: 400 iu/kg min

Smells slightly like garlic/onion.

Tang, Foxface, Firefish, Wrasse eat it happily. Blenny tastes it and spits it out.