Help with Acro and monti ID

Ptyochromis

Ptyochromis

Member
I got an acro yesterday (somewhat on a whim, the price was right). I am really bad at IDing acro and would like some imput as to what species it may be. I got it yesterday (2/26) so it may not have 100% extension yet. It is also in a low light area (for aclimation), don't know if this may impact the ID.
http://i.imgur.com/TCEMZ6N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tQ7ORtB.jpg

I also have a monti that has been with me for well over a month. I can't tell if it is a M. danae M. tuberculosa, M. verrucosa or even M. flabellata.
http://i.imgur.com/yICdLZI.jpg

Here it was 2 months ago
http://i.imgur.com/96n6p.jpg
 
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I guess Ill just keep the acro in a "stereotypical" acro spot.

As far as the monti, I was leaning more toward it being a M. flabellata (possibly wishful thinking). The polyp density is kinda low (the polyps appear few and far between). It has also been one of my more difficult corals. I know the LFS put another frag in a DT and it was white within a few days (cannot comment on their tank specs).

Maybe trying to ID the monti is an exercise in futility.
 
Ptyochromis said:
Can you explain why you think it is M. tuberculosa? I would very much like to hear your reasoning.
Click to expand...

Both species of Monti will have Papillae in between the corallites. Flabellata's papillae can grow together. Tuberculosa will be more evenly spaced appart. And M. flabellata will come from Hawaii and near by island. Areas that they just don't collect from.
http://coral.aims.gov.au/speciesPages/species_metadata/0630/view#

jdhuyvetter said:
My guess on the acro would be ORA Scripps. If it is, it will take pretty intense light.
Click to expand...

Can't be an ORA coral it would have to have lineage to be so. It may have similar polyps but that is all to go by now.
 
jdhuyvetter said:
Why can't it be an ORA? I don't follow your logic that it has to have lineage.
Click to expand...

Because the OP did not buy it as an ORA piece. Therefor even if it is the same species and same color as ORA's, it would only be proper to identify it as the Acropora species. Naming this with ORAs name would be creating an imposter coral IMO. I would be upset if I found out someone sold me an imposter frag.

Lineage; Green Acropora from ocean > Scripp's > ORA = ORA Scripp's Stag
No lineage; Green Acropora from ocean > ??? = Green Acropora

http://www.orafarm.com/products/hardcoral/acropora/scripps-stag/
 
The frags came from 2 different stores. The LFS that had the monti gets their sps frags from a supplier that lumps everything together as 'acro' and labels them all for sale as 'acro' (in the bin are pocilloporas, monti, stylo, and sometimes acros lol).

The other LFS where I got the acro gets the frags from a hobbyist that supplies them with many of their sps frags. This frag came from said hobbyist.
 
Frick said:
Because the OP did not buy it as an ORA piece. Therefor even if it is the same species and same color as ORA's, it would only be proper to identify it as the Acropora species.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I have multiple corals that are from ORA or Tyree "lineage", including the Scripps Acro. I rarely sell them as ORA or Tyree. I sell them as Scripps Acro, Blue Chalice, Green Polyp Birdsnest, etc.

The OP asked for help ID'ing a coral. The acro looks like my Scripps acro at a comparable size. Therefore, in my opinion, I think it is probably a Scripps acro, which is an ORA coral. Lineage of many corals in our hobby is going to be extremely difficult to prove.

Unless of course we shart treating our corals like dogs........They have the AKC, we could have the ACC (American Coral Club). Home of the coral pedigree. It only counts if you have "papers"!:):spin1:
 
Having 'papers' of your corals would be awesome. Unfortunately If your LFS are anything like mine, they have enough trouble keeping track of the genuses lol.

jdhuyvetter, under what conditions do you keep your scripps?
 
Swung by the LFS that sold me the acro, one of the guys mentioned that it was an ORA but could't remember which one and couldn't get a hold of the guy that supplied it.
 
High light, strong flow.

It is notorious for dying off at the base as it grows. Every couple years I cut the colony back and remove all the dead from the bottom. Somewhat susceptible to alk swings. Makes it turn brown really quick and then slow to color back up.
 
Cool, should be a perfect fit. A hermit came by a while a go and knocked it over for less than 30 min. It has lost some intensity and some color on the polyp tips where I had to touch it.

My KH tends to go between 10-12 dkH. I normally catch it before it goes under 11. Hope this won't be too large.

It also seems to really enjoy zooplankton.
 
jdhuyvetter said:
I disagree. I have multiple corals that are from ORA or Tyree "lineage", including the Scripps Acro. I rarely sell them as ORA or Tyree. I sell them as Scripps Acro, Blue Chalice, Green Polyp Birdsnest, etc.

The OP asked for help ID'ing a coral. The acro looks like my Scripps acro at a comparable size. Therefore, in my opinion, I think it is probably a Scripps acro, which is an ORA coral. Lineage of many corals in our hobby is going to be extremely difficult to prove.

Unless of course we shart treating our corals like dogs........They have the AKC, we could have the ACC (American Coral Club). Home of the coral pedigree. It only counts if you have "papers"!:):spin1:
Click to expand...

If you know they are from ORA then why not sell them with that lineage? If they are not ORA or have lineage why exaggerate or over glorify them with a show name? It seems reckless to name a tiny, and impossible to ID frag after an established well known coral. You right they are difficult to prove, why lie about one then and make it worse? We should start treating our coral like they have pedigrees. They could be the only ones that exist one day.

Ptyochromis said:
Having 'papers' of your corals would be awesome. Unfortunately If your LFS are anything like mine, they have enough trouble keeping track of the genuses lol.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to have that documentation but most people don't care. It can get even worse if the names are misidentified like jdhuyvetter is suggesting to do. The best you can do is write it down yourself and be honest about it.

Ptyochromis said:
Swung by the LFS that sold me the acro, one of the guys mentioned that it was an ORA but could't remember which one and couldn't get a hold of the guy that supplied it.
Click to expand...

I would not name something that is so small and so unsure after Scripps. Scripps is not just a funny name, it is a public aquarium. So by saying it is Scripps you are saying "yes this came from the same colony that originated from the Birch Aquarium at Scripps Institution of Oceanography". Are you sure?
http://aquarium.ucsd.edu/Exhibits/

If the only thing you are going on for calling it Scripps Acro is that it's green and an Acropora, then that sums it up to about 200 or more different species of Acropora. Let it just be a Green Acropora for now. Be patient, it will grow and become easier to ID.
 
Frick said:
It can get even worse if the names are misidentified like jdhuyvetter is suggesting to do.
Click to expand...

HUH??? I didn't suggest that. Sorry if it read that way. I have never bought corals directly from ORA or from Tyree. I have 800 gallons of saltwater in my tanks and only have one coral that I am 100% certain came from ORA (Red Planet). All others are multiple generations removed from the source. Since I don't have "papers", I don't know for certain the origination of the corals. For example, my blue chalice was sold to me (on ebay) as the Tyree blue chalice. Looks identical to the ORA blue chalice.....and may very well be. Another example is my green polyp birdsnest. I have two varieties. I'm pretty sure that one is the ORA green polyp. The other looks just like the ORA Green Tip Orange birdsnest. But, I know that it is not because it was a wild colony and I bought the whole thing years ago.

So, the OP asked for an opinion and my opinion is that it looks like a Scripps Acro. I have one that I am about 90% sure is the ORA Scripps. But, I am not 100% sure as with many of my corals. So, I call them what they are in the simplest terms.....blue chalice, green polyp birdsnest, orange digitata, etc.

I am not in this to make money, nor does my ego require me to name everyone of my corals. I have multiple corals that I bought the wild piece and sell the frags based on description. So again, sorry if my "suggestion" was misleading. I buy what I like and could care less where it came from.

I assure you, if I ever sold online or went commercial, I would probably feel differently. I sell to my club and at various frag swaps around the state. In my case, everything is WYSIWYG

And to the OP, sorry for getting off track!
 
Ptyochromis said:
I was under the impression that those names were just common trade name for the species. woops
Click to expand...

The point i am trying to make is; before you go and slap a name of a coral that has some background to it be very sure it is that. If it is just a tiny frag the best thing to do is be patient. It's not going to grow any better or look any nicer with some other corals show name on it.

jdhuyvetter said:
HUH??? I didn't suggest that. Sorry if it read that way. I have never bought corals directly from ORA or from Tyree. I have 800 gallons of saltwater in my tanks and only have one coral that I am 100% certain came from ORA (Red Planet). All others are multiple generations removed from the source. Since I don't have "papers", I don't know for certain the origination of the corals. For example, my blue chalice was sold to me (on ebay) as the Tyree blue chalice. Looks identical to the ORA blue chalice.....and may very well be. Another example is my green polyp birdsnest. I have two varieties. I'm pretty sure that one is the ORA green polyp. The other looks just like the ORA Green Tip Orange birdsnest. But, I know that it is not because it was a wild colony and I bought the whole thing years ago.

So, the OP asked for an opinion and my opinion is that it looks like a Scripps Acro. I have one that I am about 90% sure is the ORA Scripps. But, I am not 100% sure as with many of my corals. So, I call them what they are in the simplest terms.....blue chalice, green polyp birdsnest, orange digitata, etc.

I am not in this to make money, nor does my ego require me to name everyone of my corals. I have multiple corals that I bought the wild piece and sell the frags based on description. So again, sorry if my "suggestion" was misleading. I buy what I like and could care less where it came from.

I assure you, if I ever sold online or went commercial, I would probably feel differently. I sell to my club and at various frag swaps around the state. In my case, everything is WYSIWYG

And to the OP, sorry for getting off track!
Click to expand...

If you don't care where it comes from then why do you give your corals names that already have a different past? Why can you not settle for a simple name like Green Acropora? If you are not good with the species identification aspect then why not start your own name to stop any confusion?

I am not trying to get on your bad side. I am not trying to hijack this thread. I am curious to why reefers have choose to ID their unknown coral with show names. Why can't they settle for a proper simple name?
 
Naming a coral has nothing to do with 'ego'. Identification purely to maximize care and to pass on accurate information when distributing fragments. When they get bigger ill take a cross section to the uni and see what the marine bio department thinks.
 
Ptyochromis said:
Naming a coral has nothing to do with 'ego'. Identification purely to maximize care and to pass on accurate information when distributing fragments. When they get bigger ill take a cross section to the uni and see what the marine bio department thinks.
Click to expand...

YES!!! Someone gets me. This is exactly why i am against identifying your Acro as ORAs Scripps Stag. If it is not you could be taking care of it wrong.

I commend you Ptyochromis for the way you are going about this. :thumbsup:
 
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