How many Anthias?

[Joeb1983]

When the time comes, like many, I'm looking for fish to school.

From my research I really do not want to try Chromis and watch them slowly dwindle down over time.

Anyways, as the title suggest how many Anthias, specifically the smaller Ignitus aka Flame Anthia, would you recommend to have the best chance of keeping/schooling successfully?

Tank - 72"x24"x15" (shallow rimless)
Stock:

Niger trigger
Yellow Tang
Bicolor Angel
Coral Beauty Angel
2 perc clowns
Flame Hawk
(maybe a wrasse, and smaller gobies, basslet's , darts and dottyack's)

Here is reasoning for this particular Anthia other than I like its appearance:

* Care level - Easy

* Size - 3.5"

* The Ignitus Anthias is a reef inhabitant in the wild. It is a shallow water species that thrives best in a 125 gallon aquarium with one male and up to ten females. When housed singly, 70 gallon tank is sufficient.



Thanks,

Joe

 

[Joeb1983]

Anyone? I'm thinking 5?..

 

[jbvdhp]

I have success with groups of 8+. My lyretails were 8, now six; bimacs were 8, now six so I have 12 total in my tank. Male lyretail checks all the females.

I *want* to do 10+ chromis too, not sure to the "truths" of them killing each other or if it's just anecdotal. There may be a number of many who had that experience, but conversely I've seen a number of tanks that have multiple chromis successfully for years.

People say Anthias peck and dwindle down to 1. Hasn't happened to me yet.


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[ThRoewer]

The Chromis killing themselves off issue likely stems from the fact that few actually keep them in a suitable habitat. In the wild you find them in large numbers over dense staghorn Acropora forests or similar labyrinth like coral structures. There an individual can dive into safety quickly if needed and the large numbers make it less likely for an individual easily being singled out.
On top of that you have the constant threat of predators and need to feed off tiny plankton organisms all day long - that keeps them way too busy to pick unnecessary fights.
In a fish tank they get fed until full a few times a day and have the rest of the day time for all kinds of nonsense - as the saying goes "idle hands are the devil's plaything"...

 

[Cliving1]

I have success with groups of 8+. My lyretails were 8, now six; bimacs were 8, now six so I have 12 total in my tank. Male lyretail checks all the females.

I *want* to do 10+ chromis too, not sure to the "truths" of them killing each other or if it's just anecdotal. There may be a number of many who had that experience, but conversely I've seen a number of tanks that have multiple chromis successfully for years.

People say Anthias peck and dwindle down to 1. Hasn't happened to me yet.


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Lol, 8 to 6 does not sound like success to me!

 

[SaltyDoug]

Lol, 8 to 6 does not sound like success to me!

I don't think that's a fair statement

We don't know how long he had them for in his tank.

We don't know if when he purchased them there was a transitioning male that caused problems with an established male.

We don't know the circumstances of how they where caught. The stress of being shipped across the world. Transfered between god knows how many tanks and finally into the owners.

Even the most experienced aquarist is going to have losses. So he lost 25 percent i don't know the statistics but I'm willing to bet a hell of a lot more fish are lost from the time they are plucked from the ocean til the time they make it to our tanks.

 

[jbvdhp]

How many Anthias?

Lol, 8 to 6 does not sound like success to me!

Have you tried keeping Anthias? How do YOU define success with Anthias?


I've tried Anthias multiple times. Most recently the bimacs: two died from what I assume to be internal bacterial infections. Not much I could do there even with antibiotics. 2 of 8? Not bad. My lyretails, the two smallest ones died of unknown reasons. Again not bad. None lost due to pecking and fighting. So that defines my level of success with my current 12.

Before this was a group of 4 resplendents. None made it. Didn't eat. So obviously not successful. Before those a smaller group of lyre tails. Did poorly and died. I've done single and trios of pink square backs and bimacs in the past. Never worked out, so yeah 8 to 6 with Anthias for me, is successful.


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[Jeff4777]

Lol, 8 to 6 does not sound like success to me!

Whys that? Ive had a few anthias not make it through the QT process.

 

[jbvdhp]

Whys that? Ive had a few anthias not make it through the QT process.

Don't listen to him. I doubt he's had much success with this genus of fish.


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[nereefpat]

The Chromis killing themselves off issue likely stems from the fact that few actually keep them in a suitable habitat. In the wild you find them in large numbers over dense staghorn Acropora forests or similar labyrinth like coral structures. There an individual can dive into safety quickly if needed and the large numbers make it less likely for an individual easily being singled out.
On top of that you have the constant threat of predators and need to feed off tiny plankton organisms all day long - that keeps them way too busy to pick unnecessary fights.
In a fish tank they get fed until full a few times a day and have the rest of the day time for all kinds of nonsense - as the saying goes "idle hands are the devil's plaything"...

This is a great take. Could apply some other fishes we call aggressive as well.

 

[Cliving1]

Well. Let me preface my statement by saying no I do not have a tank large enough to keep anthias- nor would I based on the requirements and my heavy work schedule. I agree with salty, we do not know preexisting condition of the fish. Bacteria or infection is not always in your control. There could have been factors that led to the 6 instead of 8, however my point is 6 of 8 is not 100% success (or 2 of 8). I understand they have demanding feeding requirements, difficult to acclimate etc which vary on every fish. My post was not meaning to be malicious in any way- and was meant to be a joke,perhaps not correctly interpreted/stated. My point is (and I assume yours jb) is 100% success. I apologize if I came off in a way other than what was posted.

 

[jbvdhp]

Well. Let me preface my statement by saying no I do not have a tank large enough to keep anthias- nor would I based on the requirements and my heavy work schedule. I agree with salty, we do not know preexisting condition of the fish. Bacteria or infection is not always in your control. There could have been factors that led to the 6 instead of 8, however my point is 6 of 8 is not 100% success (or 2 of 8). I understand they have demanding feeding requirements, difficult to acclimate etc which vary on every fish. My post was not meaning to be malicious in any way- and was meant to be a joke,perhaps not correctly interpreted/stated. My point is (and I assume yours jb) is 100% success. I apologize if I came off in a way other than what was posted.

Lol, if you know this much about Anthias then you should know getting a large number of them to survive is successful. Hell, in this hobby getting anything to survive is successful.


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[ThRoewer]

This is a great take. Could apply some other fishes we call aggressive as well.

I found that many "aggressive" fish become far less aggressive (at least to other fish) if you keep them in pairs or harem groups.

 

[d-man]

Well. Let me preface my statement by saying no I do not have a tank large enough to keep anthias- nor would I based on the requirements and my heavy work schedule. I agree with salty, we do not know preexisting condition of the fish. Bacteria or infection is not always in your control. There could have been factors that led to the 6 instead of 8, however my point is 6 of 8 is not 100% success (or 2 of 8). I understand they have demanding feeding requirements, difficult to acclimate etc which vary on every fish. My post was not meaning to be malicious in any way- and was meant to be a joke,perhaps not correctly interpreted/stated. My point is (and I assume yours jb) is 100% success. I apologize if I came off in a way other than what was posted.

Assuming we all want 100% success rate, yet obtaining far less still an be successful. Because if that was our basis, we'd all be failures...ever last one of us.
And yes, 6 of 8 that would be considered successful in just about anybody anthias book. Any multiple feeding carnivore that is a constant feeder can be troublesome in our aquarium.

 

[jbvdhp]

Assuming we all want 100% success rate, yet obtaining far less still an be successful. Because if that was our basis, we'd all be failures...ever last one of us.

And yes, 6 of 8 that would be considered successful in just about anybody anthias book. Any multiple feeding carnivore that is a constant feeder can be troublesome in our aquarium.

Agreed. We'd all be complete failures with nothing but common damsels in our tanks.


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[Cliving1]

Il agree to disagree just to do so. There are some who do have 100% success- even with factors outside of their control. But yes I do understand they can be a pita and as I mentioned my original statement was comical in nature and do not mean to offend.

 

[Cliving1]

But back to the OP, yes I think you could do a group, obviously one male to a number of females. You do have some possible aggression in that tank. It may be worth quarantine until they are eating confidently as in your display they may be shy.

 

[Joeb1983]

But back to the OP, yes I think you could do a group, obviously one male to a number of females. You do have some possible aggression in that tank. It may be worth quarantine until they are eating confidently as in your display they may be shy.

Yeah, although it is a 6'x2' tank, I think I wouldn't go more than 5 or 6 max.

(Even with the smaller size Anthia's along with them being $20-$30 a pop).

Trying to see if its better to go odd or even...

I understand they have their particular needs and they will be met on my end.

I do quarantine, so I definitely make sure they are eating and healthy before the addition.

It may be too young and not aggressive yet (~6-7", white teeth; not red), but my Niger trigger and bicolor angel are usually always together cruising the tank.

They even literally sleep side by side.

The yellow tang and coral beauty are the "aggressive" ones until they establish the pecking order, although the tang is pretty skittish if someone or something passes by the tank.

Always darts behind or in the rock.

Anyways, Ill figure out whether or not to do 5 or 6 and post my results when that time comes.

 

[anbosu]

You're planning on buying all females, right? I don't think it matters whether you get 5 or 6 from a bioload or social standpoint, so if you want 6 I'd say go for it.

 

[Joeb1983]

You're planning on buying all females, right? I don't think it matters whether you get 5 or 6 from a bioload or social standpoint, so if you want 6 I'd say go for it.

Correct, let them sort out who will become male.