Interesting Commentary on Global Warming

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9500439#post9500439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Cronus
just the premise that it's all our fault and their is irrefutable evidence to suggest it and then using tax's to pay for our sins

That comment made me believe that you missed the point, so I thought I would highlight it again. Too many people don't understand what science really is; they think that if it isn't black and white it isn't true, or that it shouldn't be believed. The lack of concrete conclusions is prevalent in many fields, not just climatology.

 

[RichardS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9485876#post9485876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras
Re alternative power source, I absolutely agree, all thos power source I mentioned will not power a city nor will they make a large dent in the need for fossil fuels, at least straight away. But they can do in time. What I am suggesting is a steady switch over to power source with less environmental impact.

Well that is a bit of a problem then isn't it? According to absolute science of global warming ,which only a fool would doubt, we don't have much time? Remember at best we only have 93 years until we are under water, or as little as a decade or two depending on which GW science you listen to.

So the absolute science of global warming has made a prediction and has proposed a solution that just doesn't match the prediction. Can you see how that might make someone question how valid that prediction is?

If you truely believed that disaster was imminent wouldn't you be proposing radical things like switch to nuclear immediately, build giant CO2 scrubbers, reduce the population by any means necessary, whatever it takes. Instead of only proposing "feel good" green solutions that you've already said are not good enough.

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9504115#post9504115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichardS
Well that is a bit of a problem then isn't it? According to absolute science of global warming ,which only a fool would doubt, we don't have much time? Remember at best we only have 93 years until we are under water, or as little as a decade or two depending on which GW science you listen to.

So the absolute science of global warming has made a prediction and has proposed a solution that just doesn't match the prediction. Can you see how that might make someone question how valid that prediction is?

If you truely believed that disaster was imminent wouldn't you be proposing radical things like switch to nuclear immediately, build giant CO2 scrubbers, reduce the population by any means necessary, whatever it takes. Instead of only proposing "feel good" green solutions that you've already said are not good enough.

Now now lets not get petty. Just take a breath and relax. The only person I have seen so far that calls science of global warming absolute is your good self. As far as I know global warming is not even a science. That would be climatology and a mix of a few others that research the climate and attempt to predict its future.

No one is suggesting we flick a switch to "green" energy sources. That would be impossible. And switching to nuclear immediately is also impossible. What I am suggesting is a steady switch over to alternative energy sources. This will give time for industry to catch up and produce more efficient ways of harnessing these energy sources.

This has already started to happen with solar energy, but demand is needed to truly get things going.

 

[Cronus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9501901#post9501901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
That comment made me believe that you missed the point, so I thought I would highlight it again. Too many people don't understand what science really is; they think that if it isn't black and white it isn't true, or that it shouldn't be believed. The lack of concrete conclusions is prevalent in many fields, not just climatology.

And you are missing my point....we have politician's and environmentalists stating that there is irrefutable proof that we are causing global warming when NON of the facts can state that 100%...to stand there and say 'IT DEFINITELY IS' happening and saying 'IT COULD BE HAPPENING' are two completely different opinions.

 

[billsreef]

Forget the politicians and armchair environmentalists for minute, consider the climatologists instead. They are not actually saying man is creating a warming trend, they are saying our increasing contributions of greenhouse gases are excaberating a natural trend. In other words our contribution to greenhouses gases is making natural trends happen faster and will likely make peak of the natural trend higher than would naturally occur without our ever increasing contribution of greenhouse gases.

 

[RichardS]

Now now lets not get petty. Just take a breath and relax. The only person I have seen so far that calls science of global warming absolute is your good self. As far as I know global warming is not even a science. That would be climatology and a mix of a few others that research the climate and attempt to predict its future.

No one is suggesting we flick a switch to "green" energy sources. That would be impossible. And switching to nuclear immediately is also impossible. What I am suggesting is a steady switch over to alternative energy sources. This will give time for industry to catch up and produce more efficient ways of harnessing these energy sources.

This has already started to happen with solar energy, but demand is needed to truly get things going.

Okay I think I understand now. Global disaster is right around the corner because of us. So we should all get solar panels and windmills and then the global disaster will still occur but we can all feel good about ourselves for trying. That makes perfect sense now that I think about it more.

Basically, we're all screwed and the world is going to end. Lucky for me, I heard that from a preacher on the radio 30 years ago. Since I've had time to get used to that idea, I'm very relaxed.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9504742#post9504742 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Cronus
And you are missing my point....we have politician's and environmentalists stating that there is irrefutable proof that we are causing global warming when NON of the facts can state that 100%...to stand there and say 'IT DEFINITELY IS' happening and saying 'IT COULD BE HAPPENING' are two completely different opinions.

Yeah, I know, and it's unfortunate that some people say those things because it harms the credibility of the entire issue. However, whether or not the possibility of human induced GW is 95% or 100% is a moot point. The same things need to be done in order help the problem. I'm not willing to rely on that 5% chance that GW is entirely natural.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9505546#post9505546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
They are not actually saying man is creating a warming trend,

Unfortunately that is EXACTLY what "they" are saying. Even worse, it is the selfish Americans with their big cars and houses that are creating the problem with accusations such as "we are only 12% of the worlds population but contribute 70% of "greenhouse gases"".
This is just another bogus issue in the long line of attempts to knock world power countries down to size. To many Americans feel guilty for the prosperity that we have EARNED and enjoy so they like to sit around and navel gaze about how we need to change our way of life. Believe me, when this one blows over there will be another "end of the world" prediction to take it's place.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9506481#post9506481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
Unfortunately that is EXACTLY what "they" are saying. Even worse, it is the selfish Americans with their big cars and houses that are creating the problem with accusations such as "we are only 12% of the worlds population but contribute 70% of "greenhouse gases"".
This is just another bogus issue in the long line of attempts to knock world power countries down to size. To many Americans feel guilty for the prosperity that we have EARNED and enjoy so they like to sit around and navel gaze about how we need to change our way of life. Believe me, when this one blows over there will be another "end of the world" prediction to take it's place.

Bill's quote make more sense when you don't take it out of context. I'm sorry that you feel this is all a scam to bring down the US. It must be hard to hear that we aren't the perfect guiding light for humanity.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9505546#post9505546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
They are not actually saying man is creating a warming trend, they are saying our increasing contributions of greenhouse gases are excaberating a natural trend.

 

[virginiadiver69]

You can make your sniveling and sarcastic comments all you like, but can you actually dispute what I have to say?
Did I say I thought we were a "perfect guiding light for humanity"? I don't see how I could be under such an assumption with people like you so gleefully cheering that we are not.

 

[HippieSmell]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9507292#post9507292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
You can make your sniveling and sarcastic comments all you like, but can you actually dispute what I have to say?
Did I say I thought we were a "perfect guiding light for humanity"? I don't see how I could be under such an assumption with people like you so gleefully cheering that we are not.

Sure I can dispute what you say, it's easy. Why do you think this is all about "knocking world powers down to size"? The proponents of GW are industrialized countries. You don't hear about Zimbabwe trying to reduce emissions. Why would industrialized countries want to shoot themselves in the foot for no reason? They don't. It's just that they see the writing on the wall and realize that their way of life is unsustainable. You seem to feel that we "earned" our way of life, so we don't have to change it. The problem is that we're also going to "earn" our demise. Adapt or perish. Earth is going to earn the Galactic Darwin Award if we're not careful.

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9506216#post9506216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichardS
Okay I think I understand now.

Well obviously not and I am wasting my time trying to explain it to you. So, I will not try anymore.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9507292#post9507292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
You can make your sniveling and sarcastic comments all you like...

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[virginiadiver69]

I am assuming you are directing this toward hippie, the person who made the "sniveling and sarcastic comments".

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9507390#post9507390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
The proponents of GW are industrialized countries.

The proponents of this farce are world bodies such as the UN and scientist who know where their bread is buttered at.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9507390#post9507390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
You don't hear about Zimbabwe trying to reduce emissions.

No, you don't. Along with Asia or Western Europe. This goes back to my earlier point that we (Americans) have this massive guilt trip for being as successful as we are. People of Africa or Western Europe have much more REAL and immediate problems to deal with. They don't have the time to talk themselves into the idea that we mere mortals have any influence on Mother Nature.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9507390#post9507390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
Sure I can dispute what you say, it's easy.

Then please do. Are you denying the fact that it is the U.S. that is commonly held up to blame for this "crises" While other "poor" countries are given a free pass ?

 

[scottras]

I should just like to point out that many countries in western Europe are worried about climate change and are now creating policies to deal with it. I think you have to stop thinking of this as an us vs them debate.

 

[roader247]

Great post

 

[virginiadiver69]

This IS an us vs. them debate.
I am curious scottras, how you run V8 Super-cars and Champ cars on solar power ?

 

[scottras]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9508029#post9508029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by virginiadiver69
This IS an us vs. them debate.
I am curious scottras, how you run V8 Super-cars and Champ cars on solar power ?

Ok, just how is it an us vs them debate?

Well not too good. F1 cars don't run all that well on it either and as far
as sports go that would have to be the worst polluter. But I do hold out a little hope for it as motor racing is where a lot of technical innovation on motor vehicles comes from. The fact that I like motor sport and I am an environmentalist is a source of guilt for me, but everyone needs a little guilt. I try and reduce the guilt by doing what I can for the environment.

Motor car companies and race organisers are slowly wakeing up to the fact that they cannot continue on their current path.

 

[virginiadiver69]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9508303#post9508303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras
Ok, just how is it an us vs them debate?

If it was not an us vs. them there would be no debate would there? We could all just hold hands, sway back and forth :dance: and sing kumbaya. :love2:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9508303#post9508303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras

The fact that I like motor sport and I am an environmentalist is a source of guilt for me, but everyone needs a little guilt.

:lol: I agree totally! Refer to my earlier posts. That's all this comes down to. People who live in prosperous countries like ours have to much time on our hands. We end up trying to think of ways that we matter. In our infinite arrogance it usually turns into a mission of "saving" something. In the end we just screw it up even more.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9508303#post9508303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottras
I try and reduce the guilt by doing what I can for the environment.

And this is where your argument loses ALL credibility.
Please don't feel like I am picking on you, but again this is a very common problem for affluent people. This feeling is why we give change to the "homeless" or go to the dog pound to get a mutt instead of a pure breed retriever or don't hold developing countries to the same Kyoto standards.
I think if this were a REAL issue the people squawking the loudest (hippiesmell and reefers in general) would put their own prescription into action. Instead we burn untold amounts of energy for what, a tank full of fish?