is ich alays present in saltwater fish tank?
- Thread starter ctenophors rule
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Superstretch18
New member
Possibly OT, but worth asking:
Has anyone seen any research with regards to ich tomonts (or protomonts) being tranfered via coral / live rock / live sand additions? I see how it's possible, but has this been explored or has anyone experienced it?
Has anyone seen any research with regards to ich tomonts (or protomonts) being tranfered via coral / live rock / live sand additions? I see how it's possible, but has this been explored or has anyone experienced it?
Gwynhidwy
Meat Popsicle
I have had this happen to me. I had a well established tank that had no new additions for over eight months, no new fish had been added for over a year. I had treated all the fish in the tank with copper during quarantine and had seen no signs of ich, despite the stress of completely rearranging the rockwork at one point. I added a frag that was attached to a small piece of live rock. I then had a major outbreak of ich. All the fish were affected and were removed for treatment.
Certainly not a scientific study, but I did not see any other source for the Crypt and there were no stresses to trigger an outbreak of existing parasites, which shouldn't have existed in the tank since I had treated each fish prior to introduction to the DT anyway. I now quarantine everything, but I am admittedly a little nuts.
Proper quarantine is your fish' friend.
It does remain in the tank. The science here is junk- well not junk it proves that they need a host..The key is that it may be one spot on one fish every 8 months- kind of like when we have a cold. The spot may be under a opperculum or some other place you can`t see. There for it is present and will wait until a stress on the fish creates its oportunity to arise. I had a tank go 7 yrs without a fish introduction get wiped out when the tank got 60 degrees in a winter storm- and it always had a UV running as well as proper QT for all the fish. I have seen numerous other cases- but this one happened to me- so I can document it.
greenbean36191
Premium Member
How does that make the science junk? Your experience is not at all inconsistent with what is known empirically. It is well established that fish can host incipient populations of parasites without an outbreak occurring, exactly as you describe.
There is absolutely zero question though that the parasite can be eradicated completely from a tank.
There is absolutely zero question though that the parasite can be eradicated completely from a tank.
wooden_reefer
New member
Ich is very common in new fish. I assume that all new fish carry it.
It is absent in my tank. I have not had a single case of ich in more than 20 years.
I believe ich infestation is not strongly correlated with resistance of fish, it is rather a matter of chance, geometry of the tank, and simple math.
I, automatically without any doubt and debate, set out to destroy the very last ich organism of new fish by the tried and reliable method of long duration of treatment and isolation.
It is absent in my tank. I have not had a single case of ich in more than 20 years.
I believe ich infestation is not strongly correlated with resistance of fish, it is rather a matter of chance, geometry of the tank, and simple math.
I, automatically without any doubt and debate, set out to destroy the very last ich organism of new fish by the tried and reliable method of long duration of treatment and isolation.
Parasites in general are all too common in wild caught fish. Not just Crypt either. There are even pests that plague corals, such as nudi's, flatworms and red bugs. Really makes sense to QT everything that goes into the display tank when you think about it.
Indeed. The only question really is, is the aquarist willing to put in the necessary time and effort? IMO it goes right back to the old saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". In other words, it's far easier to prevent an outbreak in the display tank than it is to cure one
Of course if one was willing to kill and necropsy their fish it would prove that a tank could be totally ich free- but until those studies are done I will hold the phone. Still the science proves a tank without fish cannot have ich persist for long-which is not junk science obviously- but not applicable to the situation we are in with display tanks.
jenglish
Marquis de Carabas
well, we don't have the equipment at hobby level to see sub clinical infections in the gills and mucous membranes, but studies have been done at that level. Copper/hypo/TTM are all proven to remove crypto from a fish in HT (while your DT goes through a long enough fallow period to kill off the ich in there). Now at an individual level I can't be 100% sure that my fish are crypto free, I know it is possible and I can go through actions supported in published literature that are 99.9% effective and sleep pretty well that the fish are ich free. I'm not even that sure I don't have the swine flu :lol:
ctenophors rule
New member
thanks for all the replies! this is great info, and much of it is in agreance with that on WWM....
my next question, which i meant to ask earlier...will chorine kill ich?
sy you drain a tank with ich, and you dump chlorine in it for a week, adding a daily dose..will it die within a week?
my next question, which i meant to ask earlier...will chorine kill ich?
sy you drain a tank with ich, and you dump chlorine in it for a week, adding a daily dose..will it die within a week?
HighlandReefer
Team RC
This article goes into more detail about the use of chlorine to kill microbes. Generaly, bleach will brake down in the water in about 24 hrs. So repeat the dose every 24 hrs. if you wish to make sure.
Sterilization (microbiology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology)
Sterilization (microbiology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology)
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Bill,
I am curious as to what method or methods you use to quarantine against ich type diseases? I have read threads where one needs to take the fish out and place it in another tank and so on to make sure you rid the different stages of development.
I am curious as to what method or methods you use to quarantine against ich type diseases? I have read threads where one needs to take the fish out and place it in another tank and so on to make sure you rid the different stages of development.
Yes, with a strong enough dose it would probably die. Unfortunately, so would your live rock, any corals in the tank, the live sand, any bioballs you might have, your 'pods and worms, etc. Then you would need to cycle the tank, re-seed it with live rock and live sand, and basically start over from scratch. It's an option, but I'd call it a nuclear option - a last resort because it kills everyone and everything.
If you're willing to go that far, it might be easier to drain the tank and leave it dry for a month or two, then start over. You could also start a new display tank, put all of your fish in there after treating them with copper, wait for the ich parasites to die, then sell the old tank to someone else. I think those are roughly on the same level of severity as the bleach idea.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15433122#post15433122 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HighlandReefer
Bill,
I am curious as to what method or methods you use to quarantine against ich type diseases? I have read threads where one needs to take the fish out and place it in another tank and so on to make sure you rid the different stages of development.
I typically QT using hyposalinity for Crypt and close observation to uncover any other nasties.
ctenophors rule
New member
so, the article on wikipedia doesn't go to far into the amount of time the bleach must be in the system....
say i drained the tank to within an inch of a one inch sand bed. i then pour enough pool chlorine to raise the water level a quarter of an inch...stir the around..say with top off from tap water and continued addition of bleach, how long will i need to wait for ich to die? would a week do it?
say i drained the tank to within an inch of a one inch sand bed. i then pour enough pool chlorine to raise the water level a quarter of an inch...stir the around..say with top off from tap water and continued addition of bleach, how long will i need to wait for ich to die? would a week do it?
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