is ich alays present in saltwater fish tank?

[KarlBob]

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I suspect evsalty's quote re: "just observation" was referring to quarantine by simply holding the fish in a separate tank, without any anti-ich techniques or medications, and watching to see whether ich spots appear on the fish.

Suggested revised sentence (subject to approval by evsalty, of course):
"QT'ing without the use of hypo, chemicals/copper, or other ich elimination methods is just observation and the fish can still be hosts even if there is nothing visible."

 

[goldmaniac]

While we're on this topic, I can confirm that my QT tank with 1.010 hyposalinity currently contains Ich that's attacking my Hippo Tang.

Hippo Tang has been in 1.009-1.010 salinity for 3 weeks.

Last week I did a water change on the display tank, and used the (good parameters) waste water to run a water change on my QT tanks.

Well, i guess that either ich has gotten back into my system while I've been adding corals these past 6 months, or there's a strain that survived the original QT'ing of the 1 or 2 residents in my display tank.

Regardless, after last week's water change on the QT tank, my Hippo Tang is loaded with an ich breakout for 3 days now. I've confirmed that salinity is 1.010 with a refractometer that has been calibrated with 35 ppt calibration fluid that i just bought last week, by coincidence. QT tanks have been at 1.010 for 3 weeks.

ICH IS SURVIVING AND MULTIPLYING IN 1.009-1.010 salinity

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1687314

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15517500#post15517500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
While we're on this topic, I can confirm that my QT tank with

Last week I did a water change on the display tank, and used the (good parameters) waste water to run a water change on my QT tanks.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1687314

I think this is not a good idea. Even fishless a DT can have the last wave of ich in the water. Medication or hypo in QT may not be instantaneously effective.

Just think carefully about the ich lifecycle.

 

[goldmaniac]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15517605#post15517605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wooden_reefer
I think this is not a good idea. Even fishless a DT can have the last wave of ich in the water. Medication or hypo in QT may not be instantaneously effective.

Just think carefully about the ich lifecycle.

The display tank was fish-less for 4 months, from September until after Christmas.

The Hippo Tang was in an initial QT tank for 2 weeks while slowly decreasing salinity, then kept at 1.009 for 2-3 days, and then moved to the current QT #2 tank, and has been in there since July 14th.

What is it about the lifecycle are you referring to, rather than alluding to something that I'm not thinking of?

Regardless, that's hardly the point. Ich cysts are supposedly destroyed with 1.009-1.010 hypo, which is clearly not happening here.

where/when I reintroduced Ich back into the Display tank in the past 8 months is a different matter. I've focused on adding corals while my tank has been empty of fish, and some Ich cysts could have gotten thru the various 5-10 minute dips I've been using for zoas and SPS corals I've been adding. I don't know how else to QT SPS corals FROM ICH except having a QT tank with lighting and filtration and flow appropriate for housing SPS for 4-8 weeks. yeah, right.

 

[tmz]

I have had several occaisons when ich survived well managed hypo treatments. I've lost confidence in it. Copper has always worked for me.

 

[wooden_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15517889#post15517889 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
The display tank was fish-less for 4 months, from September until after Christmas.

What is it about the lifecycle are you referring to, rather than alluding to something that I'm not thinking of?

4 months should be OK. I was just refering to the fact that a fishless tank water can still have ich out side any fish for a period of weeks.

Most people think of returning fish to DT as early as reasonably possible and won't wait 4 months.

 

[goldmaniac]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15518353#post15518353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wooden_reefer
4 months should be OK. I was just refering to the fact that a fishless tank water can still have ich out side any fish for a period of weeks.

Most people think of returning fish to DT as early as reasonably possible and won't wait 4 months.

Understood. I let it go a LONG time, I waited until the chaos and costs of the holiday season was over to start restocking.

After 10 years, I am much improved in the Patience Dept.

And I'm not even that furious that, after a year's amount of effort, Ich is back in the display tank. I never expected success with keeping Ich out when I've been adding corals.

I'm just debating on whether or not I should catch the tang and the mandarinfish in the display tank and QT them and start over with a new fish-less tank. With coral additions, I don't know if i can keep it free of Ich. I don't have a frag tank or anything set up on a separate system to house corals for this purpose.

 

[xvinnyax74]

I had my display tank nice and clean... Ich free.. So I thought.. Right from the start. I had saltwater tanks for years then I stopped for a bit now I am back in the game (Divorce Sucks they get everything).. So when I bought all new stuff I was going to beat this Ich and do everything I always wanted to do right from the start.

I bought the live rock 90 lbs.. and cured it for 7 weeks in my display tank brand new tank.. Etc etc.. All new fish went through copper.. All Inverts went into a quarantine. I thought I did everything the way you could to keep from getting Ich..

And guess what I did not see anything for ever.. I have not added anything new and what happens one day? LOL I got ICH LOL all that work for what?

I cant win....

 

[Paul B]

Although I can't say is ich is in everyone's tank or not but it is definately in my tank and has been for 40 years.
In the summer almost every day, or at least once a week I get down to my boat and collect either water, mud, rocks, amphipods, seaweed, snails, worms etc. These things are all put into my tank in small quantities but I mainly want the bacteria. I am in NY and do not quarantine any of this stuff. I have also been buying fish all of these years and putting them in my tank.
I have not seen a case of ich since the eightees. I will only see ich if a fish is near death from something else like old age or jumping out.
From my observations, in those 40 years with my still running tank I can deduce that ich is present in my tank and that due to the health of the animals, they do not exhibit ich symptoms.
My fish are in breeding condition, I know that because many of them are breeding. Ich is not a problem in my tank which means it should not be a problem in anyone's tank. I am not big on water changes or maintenance so it is not due to that.
If your fish are not breeding or making spawning jestures, they are very suseptable to ich and everything else.

I can put an obviousely ich infected fish in my tank (don't do this) and it will either die or be cured but none of the other fish will get it, ever. This is from 40 years of observations, not just a few weeks.
Fish can be put into breeding condition very easily but it takes a little work

 

[ctenophors rule]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15522796#post15522796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Although I can't say is ich is in everyone's tank or not but it is definately in my tank and has been for 40 years.
In the summer almost every day, or at least once a week I get down to my boat and collect either water, mud, rocks, amphipods, seaweed, snails, worms etc. These things are all put into my tank in small quantities but I mainly want the bacteria. I am in NY and do not quarantine any of this stuff. I have also been buying fish all of these years and putting them in my tank.
I have not seen a case of ich since the eightees. I will only see ich if a fish is near death from something else like old age or jumping out.
From my observations, in those 40 years with my still running tank I can deduce that ich is present in my tank and that due to the health of the animals, they do not exhibit ich symptoms.
My fish are in breeding condition, I know that because many of them are breeding. Ich is not a problem in my tank which means it should not be a problem in anyone's tank. I am not big on water changes or maintenance so it is not due to that.
If your fish are not breeding or making spawning jestures, they are very suseptable to ich and everything else.

I can put an obviousely ich infected fish in my tank (don't do this) and it will either die or be cured but none of the other fish will get it, ever. This is from 40 years of observations, not just a few weeks.
Fish can be put into breeding condition very easily but it takes a little work

how long have you been in this? jk i know it is forty years.

an aquaculturalist (i am withholding name because he sells pruduct, whch many of you probably use) recently had a crypto out break. he had all 15 and 1/2 pairs of clownfish in 20 gallons, that were all hooked up togather. he bought a clown that had supposedly been ich free for 6 weeks, so he decided not to quarantine it (don't know why that stopped him but...) all of his fish died over the course of three days! all of his fish were breeding!

also, can amphipods bring in ich? also other inverts. i was told that ich can live on invertabrates, but it can't kill them....this confused me greatly...

 

[Paul B]

If your fish are not breeding or making spawning jestures, they are very suseptable to ich and everything else.

I said fish that are not breeding are very suseptable to ich, I didn't say that fish in breeding condition are immune from ich.

Ich can attack any fish especially in crowded tanks which are specifically set up for breeding. Usually those set ups are small bare type tanks.
I don't know this person and I am just speaking from my experiences from my tanks and the tanks in stores that I have set up.

Ich can be brought in on pods, rocks, seaweed or anything else that is wet. It just can not live out it's life on such things.
If you quarantine everything you should never have ich in your system. I like my fish healthy enough to never get ich even if it is in my tank. Some of my fish lived for 18 years and never got ich.
The tank was an ich magnet when I set it up in the seventees, before we had reefs or knew about fish nutrition. My first fish were blue devils. They were the only salt water fish available in 1972. I had a very hard time even keeping them alive due to ich. Everything had ich and we had to keep copper in the water 24/7.
Then I started feeding foods from the sea and supplying them with live blackworms. Those 7 blue devils stopped exhibiting paracites and started spawning. They lived and spawned for over 7 years and never again got ich.

Male blue devil over his nest of eggs, Circa 1972

 

[goldmaniac]

ok, here's a question then... is there a way to quarantine SPS frags from ich other than keeping them in a tank without fish for 6-8 weeks?

my situation:

i have a display tank consisting of a mixed reef. I have 29 gallon and 32 gallon QT tanks in the basement, but i don't have the facilities/capacities/money to keep a reef-quality QT tank.

Is there a treatment that can be used? I wouldn't mind netting my two fish in the display tank, letting the tank go fallow again, if there was any way to keep Ich out if/when i wanted to buy more LPS or SPS frags.

\ I'm guessing Lugol's in freshwater would eradicate Ich if I put zoa/paly frags in there for a 5 minute QT period.

 

[Paul B]

The ich will not live on sps frags. It just may come in on the water with them. You could just rinse them in salt water a few times and change the water each time. That should eliminate any ich that is hanging around on the water with the frags.

 

[goldmaniac]

that's what I did for my current SPS frags that I've purchased in the past 3 months, and I suspect it's one way Ich got back into my tank after it was empty of fish for 3.5-4.0 months.

No dips or other measures that can be done?

Paul, i know you're suggesting keeping the tank at optimal levels, which I agree is the best case scenario. I'm working on it -

and thanks. I've always been a big fan of your reverse-underground tank, and the philosophy behind your reef husbandry.

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15523715#post15523715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ctenophors rule
all of his fish died over the course of three days!

Wasn't crypto if it killed that fast. More likely Amyloodinium. Just another reason to QT all new comers no matter the source.

 

[Paul B]

Goldmaniac, I wouldn't dip corals and frags.
To get the animals in optimum health, you need to feed them something with a lot of fish oil in it like blackworms or fish eggs. You need to do this at least every other day.

Hello Bill, how you doing? Hows the East end? I have been out there a lot lately. I was just at a wedding on Shelter Island, I have a party next week in Riverhead and a wedding soon in Martha Clara Winery.

 

[billsreef]

Hi Paul :wavehand:

East end is doing well, water is nice and warm When you go that wedding at Martha Clara, make sure the band keeps the volume down for me...I can hear some of those shindigs when they get things cranking :lol:

 

[Paul B]

I will let them know. Tuesday I am going to the south shore to collect some tropicals. I know lookdowns are in. They get too big for my tank but I will keep the smaller ones for a while then sell them.

 

[jenglish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15528438#post15528438 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
The ich will not live on sps frags. It just may come in on the water with them. You could just rinse them in salt water a few times and change the water each time. That should eliminate any ich that is hanging around on the water with the frags.

When ich encysts in sand it can also encyst on a ceramic frag plug. I would think the chances of this happening would be pretty darn small. I am unaware of what lugol's would do to the cyst and I think (I could be wrong) that FW does not hurt the encysted form of crypto.

 

[tmz]

A freswater dip wont effect encysted parasites but it will kill the sps.
Three + hours of freshwatr soaking should per knowledeable advisors destroy encysted parasites .Don't know if other dips would have much effect either.