Jeremy's 250g build - Take II

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12660183#post12660183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kdblove_99

Mark, I have yet to see an Ext just an extra couple bucks more than an INT. Its usally ridiculous and for what? Never understood the extra cost of a EXt. Plus there is no real data to prove a Ext is better, or did i miss that?

I understand what you are saying Davey, But if in my insump skimmer cost $999 and my external in $1199=$1299 range, percentages are under 25% and that means "a few more bucks". I did not right a direct dollar amount, but for the BK deluxe it is a couple hundred more. By the time I take the loss on the first, it would of been better to spend the extra couple bucks the first time around.

As for in sump vs external and which one is better, I will take the external because of the extra contact time any day of the week. There are no quantitative data that measure this (yet ), but the top skimmers are only pulling 12-15% of organic wastes from our systems. In addition, if you feed twice a day, the oils from your food will knock down the head foam twice a day.
If an external takes 20-30 minutes to recover and the external takes over an hour, doesn't that exhibit, just a tad, which one is out performing. That is one of the most crucial times when we need our skimmers and an internal is basically saying, "I'll get around to it sooner or later"

I have a separate compartment for my skimmer, but because of my water volume, it needs a place to go if the pump turns off. You don't think there is some reasoning behind +/- 95% of larger volume tank owners run an external model skimmer.

These debates are a lot of fun and as Terry and I have talked about, it also has something to do with what we want vs. need. I have always ran in sump skimmers and I am glad people around here started showing me , IME, a better way.

 

[clownnrnd]

JT- I was pretty suprised when I sold my deluxe 300Int BK at the first of the year how hard it was to actually sell it. I bought it for $2400 a a year previous and ended up only getting $1300 for it. I started at $1800 thinking the new ones were coming in w/ the 1500 pump where my skimmer had the 2000. I was wrong and they do come w/ the 2000 and I had to lower my price $400 becouse a new one was going for 2k.

It was a real eye opening experience for me. I figured it would sell no problem but that did'nt seem to be the case for me. Maybe it is just the size of the skimmers along w/ size of the tanks and there is not many looking for this size. I've seen a couple A300?/300Int H&S's in the FS forum for quite sometime as well. Along w/ a couple other well liked brands.

Chad

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12660250#post12660250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtarmitage

Let me be very clear though, I am no expert, and am very much still learning and could very well be completely wrong. It is a theory only, and I happen to believe this theory to be true.

Don't take it as BK bashing either, cause I still love my BK, and if I could comfortably have afforded another BK, especially a D250 or 300 Ext, that is what I would own at this moment.

The real question is what skimmer will I own 1, 3, 10 years down the road? That'd be a good question, and it is quite likely to be another BK eventually. Especially a dual pump version with a DC variable pump!!!! Gotta save a few nickels first.:lol:

I am now pretty much a high end junky.

This is what I broke down; yes, yes and yes My closest friends know that I can within a buttons pushed from a 250 deluxe external. My biggest thing is the red dragon pump. There is no way I am buying a a pump for that much coin knowing they are known to fail and after it fails, it is known that it may take awhile to get a replacement. There is a reason that the RDII pump is not modeled after it predicessor.

I too, will most end up with a BK skimmer one day, Jeremy's list of wants for a skimmer is pretty sweet. But for the price I am getting on my new a200-1260 rather than the 250 deluxe external; I can get three new 14k aquaconnects, a new a nano wavebox and buy my wife something nice to boot. (or just an interruptus )

BTW, you are way more of an expert than I am

 

[tbone28]

Very interesting with the mini-debate the occurred after my post last night

I agree that theoretically an Ext should skim better. I would love to see real data though.

In the end, I will always go with an Internal skimmer simply because of my philosophy in setting up a tank - namely, to keep things (plumbing) simple and to minimize sources of leak (extra plumbing). For this reason, I'll never do closed loops, external skimmers, etc. May not be the *best* for my system, but lets me sleep better at night

 

[Jim_S]

I think tfp sums it up pretty well in his title:

"go with what works for you"

The great thing about this hobby is that there are some many different ways for us all to come to the same basic results and reach the same common goals.

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661392#post12661392 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tbone28
In the end, I will always go with an Internal skimmer simply because of my philosophy in setting up a tank - namely, to keep things (plumbing) simple and to minimize sources of leak (extra plumbing).

Yep, that is why I plan on running my external sitting in my sump being fed by the overflow.

 

[tbone28]

Come on, Jim - I know you're holdin back! I know you're a hard-core Ext skimmer junkie

 

[jtarmitage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661138#post12661138 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clownnrnd
JT- I was pretty suprised when I sold my deluxe 300Int BK at the first of the year how hard it was to actually sell it. I bought it for $2400 a a year previous and ended up only getting $1300 for it. I started at $1800 thinking the new ones were coming in w/ the 1500 pump where my skimmer had the 2000. I was wrong and they do come w/ the 2000 and I had to lower my price $400 becouse a new one was going for 2k.

It was a real eye opening experience for me. I figured it would sell no problem but that did'nt seem to be the case for me. Maybe it is just the size of the skimmers along w/ size of the tanks and there is not many looking for this size. I've seen a couple A300?/300Int H&S's in the FS forum for quite sometime as well. Along w/ a couple other well liked brands.

Chad

I really do think it's primarily the size that was the issue. I kept looking at the A300 that was for sale. Would've bought it early on, but it was just way overkill. It's my opinion that a BK 2000 will be easier to sell, but I'll find out soon enough. I'm also not in any hurry to unload it. It is one of those items that takes just the right buyer, at just the right time. I've got it sold already if I'm willing to take a couple hundred less than what I'd like. So, we'll see.

 

[Jim_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661541#post12661541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tbone28
Come on, Jim - I know you're holdin back! I know you're a hard-core Ext skimmer junkie

Yeah, I won't run anything but an external skimmer. My philosophy is exactly that of Mark's. If you're gonna drop the coin on a proper skimmer, get the best one you can afford.

But it doesn't mean what I do is a must for everyone. Its just how I prefer to spend my money.

And to answer the overflowing issue, I've added water sensor to my stand, right under my skimmer. If it detects water, the skimmer shuts down.

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/waterwatcher.html

As far as leaks are concerned, well, I pride myself on my plumbing skills. Leaks are unacceptable.

 

[jtarmitage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661392#post12661392 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tbone28
Very interesting with the mini-debate the occurred after my post last night

I agree that theoretically an Ext should skim better. I would love to see real data though.

In the end, I will always go with an Internal skimmer simply because of my philosophy in setting up a tank - namely, to keep things (plumbing) simple and to minimize sources of leak (extra plumbing). For this reason, I'll never do closed loops, external skimmers, etc. May not be the *best* for my system, but lets me sleep better at night

You can run an external skimmer in-sump. And, having electricity running through your water may be worse than the possibility of a slow leak from another set of pipes an bulkheads.

 

[jtarmitage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661587#post12661587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jim_S
Yeah, I won't run anything but an external skimmer. My philosophy is exactly that of Mark's. If you're gonna drop the coin on a proper skimmer, get the best one you can afford.

But it doesn't mean what I do is a must for everyone. Its just how I prefer to spend my money.

And to answer the overflowing issue, I've added water sensor to my stand, right under my skimmer. If it detects water, the skimmer shuts down.

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/waterwatcher.html

As far as leaks are concerned, well, I pride myself on my plumbing skills. Leaks are unacceptable.

First, I'll have to check out the link, but, I love the final comment!:lol: Check the new sig in a moment.

 

[tbone28]

Right, I know I can run an Ext in-sump, but that requires extra plumbing - not in line with my philosophy

 

[jtarmitage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661622#post12661622 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tbone28
Right, I know I can run an Ext in-sump, but that requires extra plumbing - not in line with my philosophy

Yeah, that T off of your drain would be a deal breaker!:lol:

 

[tbone28]

It would!

 

[Jim_S]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12661611#post12661611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtarmitage
First, I'll have to check out the link, but, I love the final comment!:lol: Check the new sig in a moment.

:lol: :lmao: :lol:

Great stuff Jt!

 

[tbone28]

I want to play. Check my new sig

 

[kdblove_99]

:lol:

JT gotta get some updates or your thread will have to be changed to JT's skimmer thread

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12662052#post12662052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kdblove_99
:lol:

JT gotta get some updates or your thread will have to be changed to JT's skimmer thread

I second that. We have waited long enough

 

[jtarmitage]

I think we had a discussion about exactly this Mark. That's why waiting til things are nearly completed before starting a build thread. You've got everything done to take pics and satisfy the masses.:lol:

Not sure about any pics today, but I did stop by Ewing and picked up a ton (read $$$$) of plumbing. Hopefully it'll suffice. As soon as my 2 yr old goes down for a nap around 1, I'll start plumbing and cutting a hole in the wall.

 

[jtarmitage]

And, BTW, I thought this was "Jeremy's how to spend loads of dough" thread :lol: