Landlords Log - Breeding Tomato Clowns

Kurt, when you get a chance can you summarize your feeding timetable from rotifers through prepared foods? I'm struggling with what to feed mine and still haven't weaned the seven week old ones off of NHBS although I'm working on that now along with the 4 week old ones.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14911255#post14911255 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bud's Reef
How old is the female of the new pair? My female is a couple of years old now and is losing the stripes which I didn't think could happen. Her head strpe only goes down as far as the top of the eyes and the mid stripe is only an elongated spot on each side at the top. The tail stripe is only an elongated spot on top. The few babies I've been able to get to seven weeks are a mix of misbars and fily striped individuals.

I cannot vouch for the exact age of the female but she is easily 4 inches long.

:) Kurt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14911265#post14911265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bud's Reef
Kurt, when you get a chance can you summarize your feeding timetable from rotifers through prepared foods? I'm struggling with what to feed mine and still haven't weaned the seven week old ones off of NHBS although I'm working on that now along with the 4 week old ones.

Here is what I did for Batch II

Day 1 - Day 7 (Rotifers supplemented with greenwater, Rotifer Diet), they self replicated so I never had to really add more from the buckets.

Day 7 - Began introducing very tiny amounts of Oto A, also stopped adding Rotifer Diet.

Day 12 - After not feeding the rotifers they were still replicating (unhealthfully on detritus, uneaten Oto A, etc) so I manually filtered them completely out with a sieve.

Day 14 - Oto B1

Day 21 - Oto B2

Mosty likely tonight I will again "Grade Up" to the next Oto Grade

For Batch III

Day 1 rotifers
...by Day 2 they were all eaten an I simply did not have enough to maintain a constant food supply

By Day 10 all I had to feed them was Oto A but it was a losing battle. I do not believe that they developed enough to handle that type of food. They were able to eat it but it's like it provided no nutriment. They had not entered meta for sure.

On Day 12 I simply took the three remaining fry and put them in with the Batch IV 2 day olds (eating rotifers) They are still only eating rotifers with this batch and have finally entered into the final throws of meta (at Day 18 to boot :lol: ).

For Batch IV

Day 1 to present (Day 7) nothing but rotifers. I will begin introducing Oto A tonight to try and replicate what I did with Batch II (My Successful batch)

Kind of a long feeding recap but it should get everything I've done current in one post.

Take Care and thanks for reading

:) Kurt
 
Great thanks! I'm not familiar with Oto, is that a brand name? Did you consider feeding newly hatched brine shrimp and decided against it? Hopefully going back to what worked before will work again.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14919942#post14919942 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bud's Reef
Great thanks! I'm not familiar with Oto, is that a brand name? Did you consider feeding newly hatched brine shrimp and decided against it? Hopefully going back to what worked before will work again.

Oto is short for Otohime, which I believe is a brand name. It is sold by Reed Mariculture. I purchased their starter pack with has small pouches of food in various sizes.

As far as BBS is concerned. My goal was to keep things as simple as possible. Using rkelmans thread as a model for feeding I avoided culturing phyto as well as the BBS. I believe that he initially tried them both but found that simply using rotifers (fed with Rotifer Diet) and the Otohime foods worked. So I stole his idea :)

Whether I am missing out on some nutriment from the BBS is still up in the air.

:) --Kurt
 
Quick Update with some pics

Batch II - Month 2

This is going to be the last update on this hatch. The 36 fry are doing fantastic and aside from the occasional picture or two I am going to simply leave them to growout!

Enjoy the photos :)

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41453batch2m2g.jpg


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41453batch2m2e.jpg


41453batch2m2d.jpg


Batch III - Day 20

These three transfers are finally getting out of meta. They have their stripes and seem to be back on track. My assumption is that there will be some long term effect due to lack of nutriment at the proper times but only time will tell. They seem to act quite normal but I know what they went through to get there. I was unable to capture any photos of them, they are intermixed with the fry from Batch IV so it is difficult to see them through the rotifer soup.

Batch IV - Day 9

Very happy with the development of this small group. They seem to be on schedule with the developmental stages that the first group did. Still eating rotifers sbut I am supplementing twice daily with small pinches of Oto A. Most likely I will begin siphoning out the rotifers on Saturday but I want to make sure they are well into meta before I begin that.

New News
__________________________________________________

Batch V - Coming this Saturday! I got a larval tank brimming with rotifers all set to go. Gonna pull the whole hatch if possible to see if I can get a decent sized hatch. Assuming I will get the usual first night die off that I have gotten in the past I want to make sure that those remaining are high in number. I really want to take a large hatch from start to post meta.

Rotifers - Plentyy in the 2 buxkets plus my experimental vessels. I hope to have enough food to keep the ball rolling with Batch V.

New FIsh!

As promised here are some rather unappealing photos of the GSM pair. RC User RevHTree took them this far and I hope to keep up with his good husbandry and get them back into the breeding mood.


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The last bit of news to report is yet another pair I purchased will be coming on Friday. They are a 1.5 year old pair of WC Onyx Perculas. Not yet breeding but we'll keep feeding them to see if we can get them there! I am excited, My wife thinks I'm nuts!

Thanks for looking

:) Kurt
 
Great news Kurt! I am glad to hear you're going to try and raise the whole batch this round. I really think that long-term that's the best strategy. And from reading your thread, I'm sure you'll be able to overcome any road bumps along the way and make it all work.

I think the three runts from batch III will be fine if they've made it this far. Keep in mind the desination is a LFS and someone's reef tank. Maybe there would be problems if someone wanted to breed them but the odds of them ended up in a breeder's tank is unlikely.

My wife thinks I'm nuts too. Any spouse that pays attention to what we're doing would think the same thing! :)

Let me know if/when you're open to having local visitors check out your setup. The dust should settle down here on my 700g tank build by the end of May so you're more than welcome to drop by after that...

Later!

--Ed
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14924710#post14924710 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rEd86
Let me know if/when you're open to having local visitors check out your setup. The dust should settle down here on my 700g tank build by the end of May so you're more than welcome to drop by after that...

Later!

--Ed

Ed - Weekends are always good towards the afternoon so I can butter up the wife by working the honey-do list in the AM. Plus we can drink beer after 1:00 PM guilt free :) Just drop me a PM and we can try and set something up. Perhaps some impromptu fragging of my overgrown corals.

Take Care and thanks for the kind words.

Kurt
 
Everything is working out great for you. I'm glad I love the pics. And the new pair. Where's the pics of the new pair? FWIW I think your nuts too :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14928981#post14928981 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rkelman
Everything is working out great for you. I'm glad I love the pics. And the new pair. Where's the pics of the new pair? FWIW I think your nuts too :)

The newest pair comes in the mail today! No pics yet!

BTW I realized yesterday I had no place to put them so I rushed to get another tank set up. Now we're ready to go :lol:

:) Kurt
 
Thanks for all the info on the feeding. With as many batches and numbers you are raising keeping it as simple as possible is the way to go. I only have 6 from my second batch and 10 from my third batch that I'm trying to raise and even with that doing two brine hatches a day is really a pain with everything else that has to be done.

I'm not going to collect any more from the GSM's but will once my black and white ocellaris start breeding I will get some of the Oto to try then.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14924408#post14924408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by landlord
Oto is short for Otohime, which I believe is a brand name. It is sold by Reed Mariculture. I purchased their starter pack with has small pouches of food in various sizes.

As far as BBS is concerned. My goal was to keep things as simple as possible. Using rkelmans thread as a model for feeding I avoided culturing phyto as well as the BBS. I believe that he initially tried them both but found that simply using rotifers (fed with Rotifer Diet) and the Otohime foods worked. So I stole his idea :)

Whether I am missing out on some nutriment from the BBS is still up in the air.

:) --Kurt
 
Wow! What an operation you're putting together. Thanks for taking the time to post updates with everything else you have going.
 
:) Happy Monday

Some updates from this weekend

Batch III - Day 24

The final three from this batch are doing most excellent. They have mingled right in with Batch IV and have all completed meta. The have both their stipes and have developed their orange coloration. They are now eating Oto A. I am very happy with my decision to save these three from the death tank they were originally living inside.

Batch IV - Day 13

I would venture a guess that this batch has around 20-25. It is still quite difficult to count them. They have all entered into meta and are developing quite well. Many have developed their headstripe. There are a few that are developing a bit more slowly. Not sure if they are from the second half of the two night hatch or what??? In any case I do not predict that I will have any issues getting these guys up to snuff. The whole gang in this tank, including the three from Batch III are eating Otohime A. On Friday I stopped adding Rotifer Diet to the water and plan to siphon out the remainder of them after the stragglers make it through meta. The tank is to the point where it will need a good cleaning as well. So I imagine I'll be straining rotifers, adding the sponge filter, and cleaning the tank sometime this week.

Batch V - Day 2

Wow! It was an amazing hatching event on Saturday night. I did not interrupt the normal light cycle of the DT and simply waited until the lights went out at 10 PM and then shut down the tunzes and the return. Within about 30 minutes I had a complete hatch of four to five hundred fry. It was simply amazing to see them all swimming around the tank. :) Then I had to try and catch them all :(

With the help of my offcial flashlight holder, whom I love dearly, :) We were able to suck all (90%) those bad boys out of the tank in about 30 minutes. My eyes were getting buggy after about 30 minutes of staring at minute silver fry amidst a black background so I didn't bother hunting down the remaining few. It was a complete hatch which was also nice. Transferred those suckers over to the remaining 5.5 gallon larval tank which was brimming with rotifers. What is brimming you say??? I do not think that the fry will actually have to do any hunting, the rotifers are dense enough so that the fry need only open their mouths and let them swim in. It's like my very own underwater veal productiion line.

Well Sunday morning proved to be on par with the "day afters" from all the previos hatches. I had a pretty massive die off. I'm sure that 75-85% of the fry were dead. Those that remained seemed to be hunting happily along. I have been thinking hard about the die off and am juggling some thoughts around regarding why it happens:

1. Broodstock health
2. Physical damage from the transfer
3. Some missing 1 day component to the larval tank

I wish that I could get the parents to lay on a tile so I could test out theory 2 but they, really me, am unwilling to hassle with getting a tile to stay in place.

Whatever the reason I have plenty of fry to raise.

No action from the GSM's they are just happy to be happy. My Onyx pair are absolutely stunning and I am tempted to pull the Tomatos out of the DT to put these guys in. This would undoubtedly break my father-in-laws heart so it probably won't happen but they sure are purdy!

Take Care and Thanks for Reading!

:) Kurt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941832#post14941832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bud's Reef
Wow! What an operation you're putting together. Thanks for taking the time to post updates with everything else you have going.

Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate them and I am glad people are enjoying the read.

:) Kurt
 
So Kurt, you need to post some pictures of your setup since you now have more then just the two tomato clowns in your display tank.

Very cool stuff. So what are your plans for the next 6 months? Will you be getting other types of clown fish to start breeding?

Great job.

--Ed
 
That hatch must have been amazing to watch. Do you already have the water made up for the larval tank or do you only use water from the DT at the moment of capture? If it is only water from the DT with an airstone or two then it seems like it might be a transfer problem. If possible, I'd try to scoop them out the next time rather than syphoning them out. You may not get as high a percentage out of the DT, but if you don't have a serious die off you would still end up with more. If that isn't feasible then I'd consider getting or making a trap to capture them.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14947277#post14947277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rEd86
So Kurt, you need to post some pictures of your setup since you now have more then just the two tomato clowns in your display tank.

Very cool stuff. So what are your plans for the next 6 months? Will you be getting other types of clown fish to start breeding?

Great job.

--Ed

Ed - I'll do my best to get some pictures of the setup. It is not very elegant but it gets the job done.

My 6 month plan is definitely going to include building something more permanent to house all of these fish. I have 5 separate tanks going right now and the maintenance is a chore. Not to mention I will be soon needing another tank for growout of the latest batches. Would love to have something pleasing to the eye and all plumbed together for ease of work.

Other clowns you say??? :) I do not have any plans as of yet to get more but I do keep a close eye on the Selling forums for anything of interest. Not to mention that there are some species already being bred in the Cincy area so that means less way to get rid of them.

Kurt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14947330#post14947330 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bud's Reef
That hatch must have been amazing to watch. Do you already have the water made up for the larval tank or do you only use water from the DT at the moment of capture? If it is only water from the DT with an airstone or two then it seems like it might be a transfer problem. If possible, I'd try to scoop them out the next time rather than syphoning them out. You may not get as high a percentage out of the DT, but if you don't have a serious die off you would still end up with more. If that isn't feasible then I'd consider getting or making a trap to capture them.

The hatch was indeed amazing to watch. Like a swarm of underwater gnats :lol:

The larval tank water is siphoned from the DT. However it was siphoned about 10 days ago to give me enough time to cultivate rotifers inside of it so that I would have a nice soup to start with. I tried scooping fry, fffrrruuussstttrrraaatttiiinnnggg to say the least. I have thought about getting a larval trap (by CPR) They are pricey and people still report die offs from the larvae tumbling around within them. I simply just don't know what's causing the deaths.

--Kurt
 
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