herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Yes but I didn't know that when I used it and the directions didn't talk about it. This was a product for lowering phosphates that is sold for salt water aquariums.
Lanthanum chloride
- Thread starter Gary Majchrzak
- Start date
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
Yup. The sock is not optional.
sweet_tweety68
New member
In Germany we have a interested patent about the pooling of LANTHANIDHALOGENID for aquatic treatment. They combine following components (bw=balance weight):
(a) 50 bw.-% to 59 bw.-% Lanthanum(III) chloride·6H2O;
(b) 11 bw.-% to 15 bw.-% Poly(acrylamid-co-Acrylic acid); and
(c) 30 bw.-% to35 bw.-% Diatomaceous earth;
(a) 50 bw.-% to 59 bw.-% Lanthanum(III) chloride·6H2O;
(b) 11 bw.-% to 15 bw.-% Poly(acrylamid-co-Acrylic acid); and
(c) 30 bw.-% to35 bw.-% Diatomaceous earth;
sweet_tweety68
New member
In Germany we have a interested patent about the pooling of LANTHANIDHALOGENID for aquatic treatment. They combine following components (bw=balance weight):
(a) 50 bw.-% to 59 bw.-% Lanthanum(III) chloride·6H2O;
(b) 11 bw.-% to 15 bw.-% Poly(acrylamid-co-Acrylic acid); and
(c) 30 bw.-% to35 bw.-% Diatomaceous earth;
(a) 50 bw.-% to 59 bw.-% Lanthanum(III) chloride·6H2O;
(b) 11 bw.-% to 15 bw.-% Poly(acrylamid-co-Acrylic acid); and
(c) 30 bw.-% to35 bw.-% Diatomaceous earth;
sweet_tweety68
New member
When the composition of the invention is placed in the recirculation system of a body of water, it gradually releases lanthanum and/or lanthanide ions into the water, which react with phosphate compounds, such as orthophosphate and condensed phosphates, forming water-insoluble lanthanum phosphate compounds. The high molecular weight polymer helps to flocculate this precipitate, and facilitates the removal of the insoluble materials by a water filtration system, as well as helping to prevent the insolubles from causing turbidity. The composition and method of the present invention permit removal of phosphate at PO4 : La ratios greater than 1:1, which is better than would be expected based upon reaction stoichiometry. Use of a binder allows the composition to be utilized in a solid, monolithic form.
One method for contacting the composition with water is to place it into a flow-through vessel, e.g., a vessel that is plumbed in line in the water filtration line. As indicated above, this placement can be made either upstream or downstream of the filter itself. Alternatively, the composition can be placed into a basket or other floating holder, and placed in the water, where it can either float free or be confined in a filter trap. If the composition is in the form of a paste or slurry, instead of a monolithic solid, it can be placed into a container that allows water to diffuse in and contact the slurry, and then escape the container.
The amount of composition introduced into the water may depend to some extent on the phosphate concentration of the water. Typically sufficient amount of the composition is introduced into the water to provide weight ratios of lanthanum ion to phosphorus in the range of 0.1 to 10, more particularly 0.5 to 5. Alternatively, the composition may be provided as a product suitable to provide sufficient lanthanum ion concentration,
eliminating the need for measurement of the phosphate level.
One method for contacting the composition with water is to place it into a flow-through vessel, e.g., a vessel that is plumbed in line in the water filtration line. As indicated above, this placement can be made either upstream or downstream of the filter itself. Alternatively, the composition can be placed into a basket or other floating holder, and placed in the water, where it can either float free or be confined in a filter trap. If the composition is in the form of a paste or slurry, instead of a monolithic solid, it can be placed into a container that allows water to diffuse in and contact the slurry, and then escape the container.
The amount of composition introduced into the water may depend to some extent on the phosphate concentration of the water. Typically sufficient amount of the composition is introduced into the water to provide weight ratios of lanthanum ion to phosphorus in the range of 0.1 to 10, more particularly 0.5 to 5. Alternatively, the composition may be provided as a product suitable to provide sufficient lanthanum ion concentration,
eliminating the need for measurement of the phosphate level.
I ran a pool DE filter on a timer with LC dripped into it to catch the precipitate, for around 2 years on my 300g mixed reef, with good success. I had to backwash the filter after every run to avoid organics polluting the system. In the end it was easier to drip LC into a filter sock and wash the sock each time
sweet_tweety68
New member
Yes, they use a binder. here is one of the PREPARATION EXAMPLES from the patent:
500 g of a 46 wt% lanthanide chloride solution, 50 g of poly(acrylamideco-acrylic acid) and 140 g diatomaceous earth (Celatom Diatomite) were mechanically mixed. The resulting paste was placed in a mold and dried at 148°C (300 °F) for 4 hours. The result was a rigid solid. The paste lost approximately 43% of its weight upon drying.
500 g of a 46 wt% lanthanide chloride solution, 50 g of poly(acrylamideco-acrylic acid) and 140 g diatomaceous earth (Celatom Diatomite) were mechanically mixed. The resulting paste was placed in a mold and dried at 148°C (300 °F) for 4 hours. The result was a rigid solid. The paste lost approximately 43% of its weight upon drying.
Ok , thnkyou Tweety . I think I got the idea. The polymer encourages lanthanum phosphate , formed as the La binds with PO4 species,to floculate so larger particluates occur than is usually the case . The diamataceous earth binds it all together until it reacts with the water over time in solid or paste form .Is any silica likely to dissolve from the diatom skeletal matter? Is this for both fresh and salt water applications?
Thankyou.
Thankyou.
Just bringing this back to the top. I have dripped 1 mil diluted SeaKlear into bag three different times so far. The bag turns light brown on the inside which I am assuming is the phosphate precipitate. So, Im getting it out of the system, but still algae as much as ever. I bought new filters for RO and a membrane flush kit. Heavier skimming. Hopefully this helps. The fish will be getting less food. Hoping all these steps will eventually win the battle. I have been careful not to over dose. Just wondering how the other people that showed interest in starting this are making out.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
tip
tip
most (all?) LFS's do not have the low range PO4 test kit necessary to detect low levels of PO4. If you introduce herbivores to consume nuisance algae their waste products contain high levels of PO4. Turds should be removed from the system somehow
This might include physical removal via siphon etc. In my personal reef aquarium strong water motion acts to break up solid waste matter which then gets swept into the overflow and then removed via mechanical filter (sock) and skimmer.
tip
most (all?) LFS's do not have the low range PO4 test kit necessary to detect low levels of PO4. If you introduce herbivores to consume nuisance algae their waste products contain high levels of PO4. Turds should be removed from the system somehow
This might include physical removal via siphon etc. In my personal reef aquarium strong water motion acts to break up solid waste matter which then gets swept into the overflow and then removed via mechanical filter (sock) and skimmer.Read this thread if you have a moment - it compares the two available hanna meters: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2066574&highlight=hanna
I'm just using a SeaChem tester.
After my first big purging, it seemed to read 0. After that cleanup and a 40% water change, several weeks later, it was still 0. I then lost 2 more small SPS frags; they just faded away.
Very frustrating. Other than that, water quality is good, although I do think I have excess organics in the water (lots of Aiptasia and occasionally some cyano - all very bad I know).
However, maybe I do still have PO4 as I just tested now and I think it's something like .5 or so.
I should probably pickup the Hannah testers.
Sounds like I need to purge again too!
After my first big purging, it seemed to read 0. After that cleanup and a 40% water change, several weeks later, it was still 0. I then lost 2 more small SPS frags; they just faded away.
Very frustrating. Other than that, water quality is good, although I do think I have excess organics in the water (lots of Aiptasia and occasionally some cyano - all very bad I know).
However, maybe I do still have PO4 as I just tested now and I think it's something like .5 or so.
I should probably pickup the Hannah testers.
Sounds like I need to purge again too!
== John ==
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