Lanthanum chloride

well... here's my point, E... (bear with me!)
1) Wouldn't the Mg P treatment skew the matted PVC results? (For better or worse the answer is YES)
2) Killing off Bryopsis is well and good but this thread is about lowering PO4 levels in a marine system. Comparing the two is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. Mg can kill Bryopsis but LaCl3 limits PO4 (thus limits all types of nuisance algae growth)
3) I've used Mg (Tech M) on Bryopsis but the treatment was more detrimental to my aquarium animals than properly administered LaCl3 treatments....

so nowadays I choose to go after the biggie... PO4.

Significant levels of PO4 inhibit calcification in scleractinian (stony) corals and that's what this thread is about... reducing PO4 with Lanthanum chloride.
Limiting algae growth via LaCl3 is a side benefit.
 
Gary Majchrzak said:
well... here's my point, E... (bear with me!)
1) Wouldn't the Mg P treatment skew the matted PVC results? (For better or worse the answer is YES)
2) Killing off Bryopsis is well and good but this thread is about lowering PO4 levels in a marine system. Comparing the two is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. Mg can kill Bryopsis but LaCl3 limits PO4 (thus limits all types of nuisance algae growth)
3) I've used Mg (Tech M) on Bryopsis but the treatment was more detrimental to my aquarium animals than properly administered LaCl3 treatments....

so nowadays I choose to go after the biggie... PO4.

Significant levels of PO4 inhibit calcification in scleractinian (stony) corals and that's what this thread is about... reducing PO4 with Lanthanum chloride.
Limiting algae growth via LaCl3 is a side benefit.
Click to expand...

I agree :thumbsup:
 
Just a small recap - my little 12G Nano now has a phosphate problem also :(

I've reduced feeding to the point that the clown fish tries to eat the cleaner shrimp - not good :worried2:

I'm wondering if my sand (from the big tank) and rock might be leaching some.

The big tank was over 200 ppb of Phosphorus (.6 ppm Phosphate) a while ago, but I can get it down to about 50 or so with LaCl3 dosing.

I'm tempted to run some GFO in the little tank, in case I do have leaching, and will do a big water change. I change about 40% a week - 5G of saltwater out of the 12 gallon tank.

I haven't run GFO in the big tank although I have a reactor and media all ready, as I wanted to get the levels down with dosing first.

== John ==
 
First off, I just want to thank Gary for starting this great thread about LaCl usage. I had been running GFO in what felt like an expensive and losing battle for a few years. I will just say that my tank and rock was second hand, and must have had a TON of phosphates to seep out. That coupled with heavy feedings and large bio-load, I have always had high phosphates.

I know that many people use GFO with great success, but I was not one of them. Likely because I rarely do water changes, and I'm pretty biased of using filter socks, etc for nutrient export, etc.

I had kicked running multiple reactors around for a bit, but never got around to it. Around 2 months ago, this changed. Phosphates were up to .24, and I got a little bit more free time.

I cobbled together a few BRS reactors that I had sitting around, added some tubing and a filter floss, and created a dosing regimen.

I started dosing very light (1.1ml an hour diluted 20ml SeaKlear to 1g RO) and tested daily with a Hanna Phosphate meter. This ended up being my perfect baseline for a maintenance dose (no gain or reduction).

After that I doubled my dose. After a few tests, some small math indicated that I would be dosing about 5ml (diluted) an hour to drop about .01 PPM a day.

After getting all baselines, I started that dosing schedule, and I have now gone from .2+ PPM to .04 PPM.

I'm now falling back down to my original maintenance dose and watching a nice healthy tank thrive (well so far, but I do not anticipate any issues).

I described how I setup my reactors, but I realize that most people are more visual. I'm going to put up a post in the DIY section ( http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21444437#post21444437 )on what I did. Hopefully it helps others.
 
Last edited:
insomniac2k2 said:
First off, I just want to thank Gary for starting this great thread about LaCl usage. I had been running GFO in what felt like an expensive and losing battle for a few years. I will just say that my tank and rock was second hand, and must have had a TON of phosphates to seep out. That coupled with heavy feedings and large bio-load, I have always had high phosphates.

I know that many people use GFO with great success, but I was not one of them. Likely because I rarely do water changes, and I'm pretty biased of using filter socks, etc for nutrient export, etc.

I had kicked running multiple reactors around for a bit, but never got around to it. Around 2 months ago, this changed. Phosphates were up to .24, and I got a little bit more free time.

I cobbled together a few BRS reactors that I had sitting around, added some tubing and a filter floss, and created a dosing regimen.

I started dosing very light (1.1ml an hour diluted 20ml SeaKlear to 1g RO) and tested daily with a Hanna Phosphate meter. This ended up being my perfect baseline for a maintenance dose (no gain or reduction).

After that I doubled my dose. After a few tests, some small math indicated that I would be dosing about 5ml (diluted) an hour to drop about .01 PPM a day.

After getting all baselines, I started that dosing schedule, and I have now gone from .2+ PPM to .04 PPM.

I'm now falling back down to my original maintenance dose and watching a nice healthy tank thrive (well so far, but I do not anticipate any issues).

I described how I setup my reactors, but I realize that most people are more visual. I'm going to put up a post in the DIY section ( http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21444437#post21444437 )on what I did. Hopefully it helps others.
Click to expand...

Hello,

How many gallons/liters has your system?

For how long lasts the filter floss before it clogs?

I think I am going to copy your reactor. :dance::dance:

Thank you
Cesar
 
110g total water volume. I've been running the same filter floss since I started, but its realistic to say that the first month of baselines gave it very little use. the second month is/was heavy use.

I don't anticipate it clogging anytime soon. 2-3 months maybe?

The part that I can see clogging the most in the future would be where the LaCl drips into the T. I plan on checking that every few months for a while . So far, so good.

csilverio said:
Hello,

How many gallons/liters has your system?

For how long lasts the filter floss before it clogs?

I think I am going to copy your reactor. :dance::dance:

Thank you
Cesar
Click to expand...



Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
 
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Whoo...Just finished the thread :dance: Lot good info...Thanks Gary! I'm going to Follow Gary's method to the T. It's worked since 08, and I'm not one to reinvent the wheel. Not to say I don't tweak thing, but this to me seems pretty straight forward. Gary has summarized the process a number of times through the years. ie. take it slow, and watch your alk. My system will be easy to mimic Gary's as my sump is in the basement with my tanks overflow dropping down to a filter sock and into the skimmer side of my sump. Added bonus, I have a LT right next to the sump.
I do have one question/concern. My tank is acrylic, and the few posts regarding fogging. I can't scrub/scrape the acrylic as scratching is a downside to acrylic tanks. Was their fogging due to over dosing, or something I missed?
Thanks in advance---Rick
 
every system is different. It's probably impossible to determine when/if a Lanthanum treatment will cause water to cloud in each unique aquarium system.

I suggest simply watching for cloudy water and stop the treatment if it startes to happen.
 
LaCl = best Po4 reduction tool available IMO. In my experience the only negative side effect is if leaves some pale brown dangly slime bits on some rock work if you use it for a prolonged period of time.
My experience with LaCl... i monitor my Po4 with a red sea pro kit, and when it rises up to around 0.04ppm, I will dose 1ml per 1000ltrs every 24hrs for 5 days, directly into the air intake of skimmer. This will bring Po4 down to undetectable (950ltr SPS system).
If i dose it continuously, (everyday) i get a build up of flocculation (pale brown dangly slime bits), around rock work.
Other than that I cannot recommend LaCl enough. Just stick to 1ml per 1000ltrs per 24hrs. Ive also dosed straight into weir and that is fine as well.
 
I was thinking of beginning this treatment, has anyone used the PhosFree brand? The msds says that it is a mixture of Lanthanum Chloride and Lanthanum Sulfate.
 
Are you really dosing into your skimmer air intake? From my experiences with LaCl, I would not recommend that. Because of the sticky buildup that bonded phosphates make, the wet intake of the skimmer would be a much better choice for LaCl injection.

That said. If you can afford the space, I highly recommend trying a reactor style setup like the one that I posted in the DIY section. It has been an awesome little experiment for my tank.

I will likely never go back to GFO.


jason angel said:
LaCl = best Po4 reduction tool available IMO. In my experience the only negative side effect is if leaves some pale brown dangly slime bits on some rock work if you use it for a prolonged period of time.
My experience with LaCl... i monitor my Po4 with a red sea pro kit, and when it rises up to around 0.04ppm, I will dose 1ml per 1000ltrs every 24hrs for 5 days, directly into the air intake of skimmer. This will bring Po4 down to undetectable (950ltr SPS system).
If i dose it continuously, (everyday) i get a build up of flocculation (pale brown dangly slime bits), around rock work.
Other than that I cannot recommend LaCl enough. Just stick to 1ml per 1000ltrs per 24hrs. Ive also dosed straight into weir and that is fine as well.
Click to expand...
 
I wanted to throw this idea out there. i have never used seaklear but very tempted to.
design i have includes 2 BRS reactors.
feed the first chamber with saltwater from ur tank/sump/mannifold with a T. and in the T mix in the diluted Lanthanum chloride (seaklear). So there will be reaction in the first chamber then water will pass to 2nd chamber. u can have a coarse sand in 2nd chamber to trap the flakes making clean water exit back to sump near skimmer intake.
what do u guys think about it?

here is a pic,
SeaKlearreactor_zpsb3e38536.png
 
bnumair said:
I wanted to throw this idea out there. i have never used seaklear but very tempted to.
design i have includes 2 BRS reactors.
feed the first chamber with saltwater from ur tank/sump/mannifold with a T. and in the T mix in the diluted Lanthanum chloride (seaklear). So there will be reaction in the first chamber then water will pass to 2nd chamber. u can have a coarse sand in 2nd chamber to trap the flakes making clean water exit back to sump near skimmer intake.
what do u guys think about it?
Click to expand...
Looks back a few(a bunch) pages, there have been several similar setups created.
 
The precipitant is very fine. The sand filter set up proposed might filter it out depending on how the water channels through it . Dripping it slowly into the pre sand/ first chamber would be better , imo. ,to help insure all the lanthanum is exposed to suffcient water volume before moving and to minimize bonding with carbonate instead of phosphate..
 
Hey Tom,
I know its the wrong thread, but quick question. When you dose vinegar, where do you dose it in your system? The sump or pre sump? Thanks---Rick
 
Half in the sump and half in a drain leading to a cryptic refugium.. Mostly I dose vokda; easier to bolus dose. Don't want to highjack as this thread is complex enough ;I will say there is no reason not to use lanthanum chloride when organic carbon dosing if you need extra PO4 reduction.
Here's a thread on on organic carbon dosing that may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+dosing
 
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