Lanthanum chloride

[Capt_Cully]

WELL!!! This has been quite the read.

Gary arer you still using ANY carbon products/ I saw you make mention of BRS ROX in another thread. I'm guessing yes, for its other desirable properties, i.e. binding allelopathic toxins.

Do you think this would be beneficial, or as beneficial if used once a month or every few months like Melev does? Would it be too much of a phosphate reduction too infrequently?

In your opinion is it better on a set sched? I think you said you're down to once a week or every 2 weeks and your dose/dillusion (as opposed to delusion ) is down to a few ml's in a liter.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I run small amounts of GAC at a time and don't change it out as frequently as I should

Since there's no way for me to know how fast anyone else's system builds up detrimental levels of PO4 I can't know for sure how often others should perform treatments. Accumulated levels of PO4 would seem to be the best indicator that a treatment might be needed. I'd like to remind people that the results of long term (many years) use of Lanthanum compounds are still somewhat unknown and caution should be used in it's use. Don't over do it.

I've never dosed vodka into my aquarium.

 

[tmz]

My main reason for running granulated activated carbon(gac) is to control levels of TOC(total organic carbon). TOC is in organic molecules( fixed to hydrogen and other things including some fixed metals). Some of these molecules are alelopathic. Skimmers have been shown to be less effective at removing these than gac although they help.

Wether it's alelopathic or not, TOC is harmful at high levels since it disrupts the levels of bacterial strains and may imbalance or disadvantage the coral's symbiont bacteria.

I suspect it has more to do with tank crashes than we know.

TOC comes from many sources: foods, coral slime, fish waste spawns, releases of alelopathic compounds. bacterial activity and so on.

Since, organic carbon levels are not measureable with available hobby grade equipment controlling them is a shot in the dark . However, several studies have shown that elevated levels of TOC cause coral mortality. It may be even more harmful than excess PO4 or NO3. Since we can't readily measure it ,it tends to be ignored more than the other two.
When the gac binds an organic molecule it takes out the bound carbon as well as the bound nitrogen and phosphorous and everything else in the molecule, so it has a reducing effect on C,N and P but not as much on P as lanthanum or gfo which directly orthophosphate( inorganic PO4 species) which show up after the organics breakdown.

FWIW, I run rox8 24/7 at about 1.25 grms per gallon. I change it every 4 to 5 weeks.

 

[Capt_Cully]

FWIW, I run rox8 24/7 at about 1.25 grms per gallon. I change it every 4 to 5 weeks.

I know I asked before Tom, but I'm getting ready to buy some ROX8 on the BRS group buy.

How do you run your carbon? Reactor or bag?
Thanks

 

[tmz]

Some in a canister filter and some in a brs reactor.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

todays water change

todays water change

25 gallons of old water wet skimmed out after dosing just enough dilute LaCl2 to cause water in the micron sock to rise to the top of the sock.
I dose LaCl2 into the sock with a goal of "coating" the inside of the sock.

the two white PVC pipes going into the sock are my returns

 

[captain7359]

What concentration is everyone dosing at? Would a lower concentration dripped in over a longer time allow a better reaction and allow the LC to completely react?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Would a lower concentration dripped in over a longer time allow a better reaction and allow the LC to completely react?

yes. You can dilute to any strength you wish. This is clearly a case where "less is better". Less and longer.

 

[reefpix]

Does anyone know how effective carbon would be at removing lanthanum chloride?

 

[Matt_Wandell]

I'll have to ask around the public aquariums and see how they actually dose and clean up the precipitate. I think Steinhart doses their waterchange water, but not sure about the tank systems themselves. How about Joes?

Hey Gary and Chris,

We have a 2 stage process for "creating" our makeup seawater, the first step is to draw water from an ocean well to what we call our mixing cistern. This water is hyposaline (typically around 25ppt salinity) so we brine it up with IO salt to 35ppt. Here we dose LaCl2 and run a dedicated sand filter to collect the precipitate. After dosing and running the filter for 24 hours we send it to one of several holding cisterns where it is ozonated, skimmed, and further sand filtered before being used in exhibits.

I have read some interesting stories about large systems dosing LaCl2 and having their sand filter media gum up and become a huge mess. Our big sand filters that process the exhibit water every hour are the size of SUVs and cost tens of thousands of dollars...if one of those gums up we will have some major major issues. So our strategy for LaCl2 dosage in the exhibit, if we need it, will be to inject it into a dedicated side stream and sand filter that can be easily turned off, cleaned out, and the media replaced regularly if necessary.

HTH,
Matt

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

very interesting. Thanks for that explanation, Matt.

So you've not yet directly dosed LaCl2 into the exhibit itself?

 

[Matt_Wandell]

very interesting. Thanks for that explanation, Matt.

So you've not yet directly dosed LaCl2 into the exhibit itself?

Not yet. May do it some time in the future.

 

[tmz]

Does anyone know how effective carbon would be at removing lanthanum chloride?

I don't think it would remove any since it's a precipitant and not an organic compound.

 

[ultreef]

Instead of a 5micron socks, can i run it through a 5micron sediment filter that we use in our RO/DI units?

I guess my question really is, can the sediment filter be rinse and cleaned like a filter socks. Anyone know or have tried this? I have lots of filter for RO but a 5micron socks is hard to find where I am.

 

[Reefski's]

the socks are pretty cheap and you can get them at aquaticeco dot com in florida.

Carl

 

[LFS_worker]

I missed the post being gone and its old news but Sorry to hear about the lawnmower blenny Gary I was just getting caught up on this AMAZING thread!

What are your current phosphate levels? It sounds like you drip through your overflow in the tank do you ever flush the overflow (pull the drain pipe)? Great thread everyone!

Brian

 

[iamwrasseman]

seems like it works quite well ,im just still a bit scared dripping that "poison"into my tanks .it is working today and im still just a bit hesitant if there are any long term drawbacks .havent seen any so far though so i have been collecting and planning my doser/collector out. cheers!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

hi, Brian!

hi, Brian!

.2 ppm PO4 (or lower) is my objective.
obviously, actual current levels are always in a state of flux.

Thanks for the condolences on the Lawnmower Blenny. He's been gone over a year now! Meanwhile, I'm still using the very same bottle of LaCl2 and 10 micron filter that I used at the beginning of this thread. (Not too shabby, eh?)

FWIW I now use LaCl2 exclusively in conjunction with my wet skim water changes and I've never pulled or flushed the drain pipes.

 

[becon776]

VERY cool thread. Definately interested in how things progress and getting some kind of system established. def got my attention.

 

[tmz]

FYI, Salifert in their test kit cites: 0.1ppm as a critical level and further notes that 0.25 ppm is harmful to some corals. FWIW , I hold PO4 at 0.05 to 0.07ppm with nitrates at 2 to 5ppm.