Lanthanum chloride
- Thread starter Gary Majchrzak
- Start date
tylersarah
Member
No I don't use either lanthanum chloride or gfo now.
When I did use the lanthahum I used Sea Klear for a while ;it's what I have on hand now .. I think the first time
I tried it several years ago I used a small bottle of Brighwell E and then switched to the SeaKlear given the compartive costs..
When I did use the lanthahum I used Sea Klear for a while ;it's what I have on hand now .. I think the first time
I tried it several years ago I used a small bottle of Brighwell E and then switched to the SeaKlear given the compartive costs..
With organic carbon dosing(vodka and vinegar) nitrate stays around 0.2ppm and PO4 between .02ppm and .04ppm consistently(once in a while I'll get reading of .05 or .06 or sometimes .01 but not often)I've been dosing organics or over 5 years and ran a little gfo with it until about 4 months ago to hit the low range PO4 but it 's just fine without it.
I have biopellets as well. It took my nitrate and phosphates down but when it got the nitrates down to reasonable levels they stopped doing anything with phosphates. I've been dosing lc every 2-3 weeks to keep phosphate down.
I don't use the pellets. They are a carbohydrate. I only use acetic acid (vinegar and vodka) and try to keep some NO3 and some PO4 in the water. Anyway this thread is about lanthanum chloride not organic carbon dosing. If there are more questions about organic carbon dosing I'd be happy to discuss them here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic
Hello Tom,
Why did you leave lanthanum chloride ?
Did you find some colateral effects comming from lanthanum ?
I am following this thread and another one about the use of lanthanum chloride in a reactor, from the first day and I plan to start lanthanum chloride using a reactor soon; what is your opinion about this?
My tank is seven years old and I have difficulties to run PO4 < 0,1 using GFO.
Regards
Hi,
I don't need it with the organic carbon dosing.
I used it for a while years ago instead of gfo which got too pricey for the amounts I needed. Then I learned how to regenerate gfo which madd it more affordable. Now I don't need either one as my system is well adjusted to organic carbon dosing .
GFO is esier to use and control ,imo. Lanthanum chloride can be tricky and I've seen some experienced folks harm animals with it even with apparently reasonable filtration and measured dosing. It's easy to make a mistake. Personally,I still use it in curing bins for leaching rock but don't use in the reef tanks anymore,though I might again in the future depending on the situation. I cetainly don't want to discourage folks who are having sucess with it.
I don't need it with the organic carbon dosing.
I used it for a while years ago instead of gfo which got too pricey for the amounts I needed. Then I learned how to regenerate gfo which madd it more affordable. Now I don't need either one as my system is well adjusted to organic carbon dosing .
GFO is esier to use and control ,imo. Lanthanum chloride can be tricky and I've seen some experienced folks harm animals with it even with apparently reasonable filtration and measured dosing. It's easy to make a mistake. Personally,I still use it in curing bins for leaching rock but don't use in the reef tanks anymore,though I might again in the future depending on the situation. I cetainly don't want to discourage folks who are having sucess with it.
Precipitous drops in phosphate can be harmful to corals ,anemones ,clams and other animals. Everything needs some phosphorus for many life functions including calcification. Rapid reductions will likely reduce the availability of useful compounds like ATP for example.
On the other hand prolonged excess is likely harmful too as it alters the calcification process and probably other biological activity as well.
The question in my mind is how much inorganic phosphate is optimal for a particular tank and it's mix or organics and inorganics in terms of animal health and algae limitation. Slow reductions in PO4 levels without going for zero are not harmful , but care needs to be taken to avoid big drops ,more so when the levels approach the .05 to .1 zone ,ime.
I also look to folks who know phosphate best for guidance on levels. The best I know is Dr. Randy H. Farely . I think everyone looking at phosphate issues should carefully read his articles at least once. I've learned to trust his information and insights.
Anyway that's another subject; I don't want to go to far off track beyond answering the question originally asked in this thread on lanthanum chloride which is why I stopped using it. Again, it boils down to: I no longer needed it to maintain the PO4 levels (.02ppm to .04ppm) where my tanks thrive and algae is sparse.I haven't needed gfo for a while either.
I haven't done a cost comparison between lc and regenerated gfo,so I don't know that lc is the most cost effective or not but it may be.
The gfo may drop in some insoluble iron precipitants if it grinds to dust ; lanthanum chloride may add free lanthanum and fine particulate preciptants which can be harmful .I prefer the gfo when the amount I need is affordable and consider the risk lower. Either should be used with an eye on not only reducing Pi but also not reducing it too far or too fast, ime.
On the other hand prolonged excess is likely harmful too as it alters the calcification process and probably other biological activity as well.
The question in my mind is how much inorganic phosphate is optimal for a particular tank and it's mix or organics and inorganics in terms of animal health and algae limitation. Slow reductions in PO4 levels without going for zero are not harmful , but care needs to be taken to avoid big drops ,more so when the levels approach the .05 to .1 zone ,ime.
I also look to folks who know phosphate best for guidance on levels. The best I know is Dr. Randy H. Farely . I think everyone looking at phosphate issues should carefully read his articles at least once. I've learned to trust his information and insights.
Anyway that's another subject; I don't want to go to far off track beyond answering the question originally asked in this thread on lanthanum chloride which is why I stopped using it. Again, it boils down to: I no longer needed it to maintain the PO4 levels (.02ppm to .04ppm) where my tanks thrive and algae is sparse.I haven't needed gfo for a while either.
I haven't done a cost comparison between lc and regenerated gfo,so I don't know that lc is the most cost effective or not but it may be.
The gfo may drop in some insoluble iron precipitants if it grinds to dust ; lanthanum chloride may add free lanthanum and fine particulate preciptants which can be harmful .I prefer the gfo when the amount I need is affordable and consider the risk lower. Either should be used with an eye on not only reducing Pi but also not reducing it too far or too fast, ime.
Last edited:
insomniac2k2
Active member
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
so am I ...albeit sparingly. As always since day one
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
Since I originally posted in this thread, I've read all 46 pages...
To summarize as I understand things:
In using LC to reduce the level of PO4 in the system, it is preferable to drip a diluted dose (5mls/1L of the SeaKlear Commercial Strength) into the /overflow box/drain so as to maximize the water contact and pick up as much free/available PO4 as possible. This flocculent of PO4/LC is harmful to fish gills and filter feeders therefore mechanical filtering via 5-10 micron sock is desired, with the mechanical filter being placed as close to the Skimmer intake as possible, so as to remove any additional flocculent that escapes, or any LC that does not bond with any PO4, (which would go on to create flocculent downstream that could possibly end up in the DT, harming fish and filter feeders.
It is not suggested to drip the diluted LC mix directly into the protein skimmer as the flocculent is very sticky and tough to dislodge thereby jamming up the skimmer.
If the flocculent is so obnoxious to skimmers and can possibly cause tank hazing, by bonding to glass.....
Is anyone concerned about the flocculent bonding to the overflow drain pipes?
If not, why not?
I've seen the last couple of pages regarding the reaction chamber debate....but with my current set up's design/space limitations, building a set up like insomniak2k2 is probably going to be the easiest method for me to employ LC as a PO4 reducing method.
Is it worth trying in that manner, or not?
Thanks for the time and responses guys.
My un-chemistry-educated guess is that the biofilm that coats the pipe walls will at least slow the adhesion of the precipitate, whereas your skimmer and DT are kept relatively clean and offer a good bonding site. (Nucleation site?) The haze crust that forms is like concrete. You do not want it in your tank!
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
That's a good hypothesis. I don't know one way or another and was just throwing out my concerns regarding that possibility. I can certainly see how the biofilm/calcareous build up inside the plumbing of an established system could slow/prevent the LC haze crust, (are we calling it that now?) from forming on the plumbing walls....
Are you still dosing LC H20ENG?
Are you still dosing LC H20ENG?
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