Large Angels or Butterflies first?

[Johnseye]

I have moved from a 120g to a 260g which has been up for 3 months now. The following fish were moved over a month ago:

1 Yellow Tang
2 Melanurus Wrasse
1 McCosker's Wrasse
3 Clowns
1 Flame Angel
1 Multicolored Angel

The existing angels are genus Centropyge so I'm not concerned about them getting along with the large Angels. Tank parameters have been stable. I still have some dinos/diatoms.

I'd like to begin adding new fish and the two types of fish will be large Angels and Butterflies. As I'd like to have multiple types of these fish I am planning on adding two of each type at a time. Question is, which one first?

For the Angels I'm planning on an Emperor which is genus Pomacanthus. The other I'm considering is a Regal which is genus Pygoplites. Another question is whether these can be added at separate times because they are of different genus? A third option would be a Blue-faced Angel which is genus Pomacanthus.

For the Butterflies I'm planning on a Saddleback and Pearlscale.

Any fish I introduce will be a juvenile or as small as possible.

Thanks

 

[Mr tap water]

Large Angels or Butterflies first?

I would add the Butterfly first and the Emperor last as the angel will become the more dominant fish in your system in the end. Also with the Regal angel needs to go in before the Emperor as they can be very temperamental with food and usually the last to get it.


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[Dmorty217]

If you want a regal it needs to be the next fish. Emperors become more moody with age and size and make adding new additions difficult. Blue face is more mellow than a emperor. Saddled butterflies get more aggressive with size so smaller is better

 

[Johnseye]

Will adding the Emperor after the Regal and Butterflies be an issue? Will the Regal be aggressive towards it considering they are of different genus?

 

[Salty150]

Will adding the Emperor after the Regal and Butterflies be an issue? Will the Regal be aggressive towards it considering they are of different genus?

A Regal normally isn't "aggressive" toward anything... unless it's another Regal...

It is a very mellow, somewhat timid, fish.

However, your Yellow Tang and Flame Angel will be little hell-hounds toward the new fish added.

 

[Johnseye]

A Regal normally isn't "aggressive" toward anything... unless it's another Regal...

It is a very mellow, somewhat timid, fish.

However, your Yellow Tang and Flame Angel will be little hell-hounds toward the new fish added.

Maybe the Flame. The Tang is a gentleman. The Multicolor and Melanurus are the most aggressive of the bunch

 

[Salty150]

Maybe the Flame. The Tang is a gentleman.

LOL, wait till you add the new fish and get back to us on that

 

[Johnseye]

LOL, wait till you add the new fish and get back to us on that

The Tang was one of my first fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

Will adding the Emperor after the Regal and Butterflies be an issue? Will the Regal be aggressive towards it considering they are of different genus?

Depends on the regal angel. Most of mine are fairly mellow, especially the Yellow Sumatra pair, but the Blue Bali Regal I have in the 42 CADlight is a little tyrant and even the larger Marine Bettas go out of his way. He likes especially to pick on the Neon Dottybacks. It isn't really bad and no one gets injured, but it seems a bit atypical. Though the little Yellow Maldives Regal is fairly bold as well.

I personally would always go for a pair of Regals (or Emperors) as that's how you find them in the wild. I also found that Regals in pairs adapt easier to new foods. And they are far less likely to get in conflict with other fish since they are usually busy enough with themselves (that goes pretty much for all fish).

 

[ReefTeacher]

I have to disagree that the Blueface is more mellow than the Emperor. I had a large (6-7") Blueface that absolutely ruled over a similarly sized Emperor. No real damage done to either one, and they were together for years, but the grunting matches were fun to listen to. It was the most beautiful fish I ever owned! Plus he ate all my annoying Kenya trees!

 

[Dmorty217]

I have to disagree that the Blueface is more mellow than the Emperor. I had a large (6-7") Blueface that absolutely ruled over a similarly sized Emperor. No real damage done to either one, and they were together for years, but the grunting matches were fun to listen to. It was the most beautiful fish I ever owned! Plus he ate all my annoying Kenya trees!

They all get mean with size, neither are a great option.

 

[pinnatus]

IMO I don't worry about adding in any order. I mean, sooner or later you will always add another fish after the "last" fish in the tank.

That being said, it is important to learn how to add a new fish to an established tank with lots of established territories and various bullies already in the tank.

Really, all you really want/need to do usually is get the newcomer past the initial bullying phase, get them relaxed, eating and comfortable. The fish will figure out the hierarchy from there.

I have several tricks that I use -

1. Acclimitization box. This allows residents to see the newcomer and get used to it before letting it loose in the tank.
2. Re-arrange tank - This is a great way to add new fish. It resets the territories of existing fish, and as a side bonus, it makes the tank different to look at from time to time. Drawback is that those with reef tanks will not want to move corals and rocks around.
3. Add a large scary object - eggcrate, a fish net, or some other foreign device added to the tank gives the newcomer something to hide behind while the current residents are afraid of the new thing in their home.
4. The mirror trick - most fish will rather spend time fighting their own reflection than battle with a newcomer that isn't like them.
5. Last resort - catch the aggressor and put it in the sump until the newcomer gets adjusted, then re-introduce.

 

[scooter31707]

If you are considering the Regal, it needs to go in now, but make sure it's eating well and is bigger than that Flame Angel. I have seen and experienced cases of a Flame being a total PITA to newcomers. Emperor or Blueface needs to be the last fish, period.

 

[Johnseye]

If you are considering the Regal, it needs to go in now, but make sure it's eating well and is bigger than that Flame Angel. I have seen and experienced cases of a Flame being a total PITA to newcomers. Emperor or Blueface needs to be the last fish, period.

What about adding a Regal with Butterflies at the same time? I've found that adding multiple fish together takes the pressure off a single fish.

 

[Salty150]

eggcrate, a fish net, or some other foreign device added to the tank gives the newcomer something to hide behind while the current residents are afraid of the new thing in their home.

Just a slight modification

The idea of using egg crate is to isolate the trouble maker - not the new fish.

 

[Johnseye]

I also plan on adding Anthias at some point. Not sure how they'll factor into the timing of my additions. Any thoughts?

 

[scooter31707]

You could put Anthias and the Regal in at the same time. then the butterflies and then the angels.

 

[pinnatus]

Just a slight modification

The idea of using egg crate is to isolate the trouble maker - not the new fish.

Rather than use eggcrate as a physical barrier, I use it as a large, scary thing that keeps the established fish away from the new fish - the established fish is scared of the eggcrate so it won't go near, and the new fish will tend to stay near the scary item for protection.

I have not had a lot of success using egg crate to section off a tank - a determined fish will usually find a way around it, then the two are isolated together, which is worse.

 

[Salty150]

Rather than use eggcrate as a physical barrier, I use it as a large, scary thing that keeps the established fish away from the new fish - the established fish is scared of the eggcrate so it won't go near, and the new fish will tend to stay near the scary item for protection.

I have not had a lot of success using egg crate to section off a tank - a determined fish will usually find a way around it, then the two are isolated together, which is worse.

You just cut the egg crate to fit your tank - and if needed - use small clamps on each side to keep it in place.

It works great - and have never seen it fail.

:fish1:

 

[pinnatus]

Right. that can be done if you want. Takes some time, some good measuring, and good cutting skills.

I don't do that. I just stick a piece in there, no particular size or shape. I don't use it long, just to get the new fish acclimated. Then it comes out. There are rocks in the way. Fish find ways around, under or over, unless you do a really good job on the cutting and installation. Again, the point isn't to section off a tank, it is to give the new fish a refuge area until the established fish leave it alone. Egg crate is only one item that can be used. Sometimes I just shove a fish net in there, accomplishes the same thing.

If a physical separation is needed, I have built an acclimitization box out of eggcrate and zipties. I put the new fish inside, and let them out when it looks like all aggression has subsided.