Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

[reefmutt]

All the guys I have seen with aefw in the past few years love the clip and dip method :hmm3: I think the clip and dip method is good but people get complacent doing this and sometimes aren't sure of what eggs even look like. I prefer holding them in a observation tank for a period of time before adding to the tank. Even if it's connected to the main system the chances are slim to none that one gets through. Especially if your watching them daily. There are many ways to skin a cat and as long as your proactive it usually works out. They slip through when you "trust" that things are clean for whatever reason. And if your like me it's happened
Being prepared to get pests and deal with them makes reefing compleetly fun. We don't even blink if we see pests on new corals anymore and I haven't had this much fun keeping corals since I started!

I completely agree. This is an excellent idea- especially if the first thing you do is clip and dip the coral. Then, the likelihood of something getting in is very minimal..
Aefw and their eggs, I find are easy to spot. It's all the new tiny bugs related to red bugs that are difficult to spot. I have found a new bug in my tank that is not red but is covering one particular coral which won't wake up out of its hibernation. At least I know why..
I'm going to have to treat with intercepter.. I don't want to but I might have to.

What food do the glass cardinals like the best? I had a school before but they seemed to pick either each other off one at a time until I was left with only a couple

I find the the glass cardinals will eat basically anything and everything. I would think mysis or spirulina brine would be best because of the high protein content and good nutrition.
They are an interesting fish. Mostly nocturnal, they will delegate and hang amongst the rocks during bright daytime but in he evening when my my are off and They are expecting food, they will all come out and school very well. I quite enjoy watching them and my anthias move against the currents and then change directions when my gyres switch.
They will often bicker and fight with each other. They pair up often and go off by he selves for a few days and then come back to the group with one having a mouthful of babies.
I find them much less aggressive than bangai cardinals. Mine don't seem to kill each other off, but they have plenty of hiding spots and get fed well so maybe that why they do so well

Hi, can you post a pic of you Pink Cadillac again please??

Mike, I thought I was going to have time to take some photos and document a few things but I just haven't found the time.. My pink Cadillac hasn't grown up much but has encrusted very well. I don't really get much pe on it right now. Hopefully I'll get some shots done soon.

Nice fuzzy polyps in the macro pics! Too bad about the smooth-skinned blue-ish one...hopefully it comes out of its hump.

Hey Mindy. Thanks, it had another rtn event but the remaining parts seem to be doing fine.. That's another photo I want to take.. I'll get it done sooner or later.
It's a really finicky coral..

I think I am going to visit a breeder this weekend to choose a puppy. It's a two hour drive from Montreal so time will be short again this weekend but bringing my daughters to visit their future new puppy will be well worth the trip.

 

[reefmutt]

Matt,gThis is a dood strategy, which I am not good at. I never dip any corals, but I never introduce any colonies in the first place.

Do you think a reef tank can harbour AEFWs without acroporidae in it exhibiting any external stress signs?

Oops, missed this one. Bulent, I think some corals are much more resistant than others to the worms.
Without any aefw predators, like peppermint shrimp, I think the aefw will eventually take over.
With predators, I think yes, you could have aefw without them killing corals.
I have one coral which seems to be the aefw magnet in the tank. When all corals look perfect, this one gets totally effected, looses colour and flesh. This is one of the corals I want to photograph. I have to do it soon because I really want to dip it, but I want to document the aefw damage first.
I have another coral that shows the perfect round aefw bite spots in a row but then a few days later the bite marks are gone and the coral continues to flourish..
Both of these are smooth skin acros..
I also want to photograph the bugs on a different coral..
Gotta get on that!

 

[reefmutt]

Ok.. Here's my pest update.
It appears that the aefw are the least of my problems. The bugs seem to be worse and I seem to have two types- the typical red bugs.. Here's a good example of them in my smaller jaw dropper colony but I have seen them on another coral as well..
Look on the lower branches in the image.

They can also be seen on the green coral, here:

Now, the following coral has been dormant ever since I got is about 8 months ago. Originally, the coral was turd green but started to colour up so I fragged a good branch and put it in my display. It has ever so slowly gained colour but no growth at all..
It's the reddish coral on the upper right.

Here's a top down:

And some macros:


This could actually be a cj's pinky...
So there are my bugs....
Now, here are the aefw..
This coral is an absolute aefw magnet.
You can see the damage in the middle. It's all pale and mottled.

Closer..

Top down:

I know that when I dip this coral, one large flatworm will come off. Every couple of months this happens. The coral will completely recover and then get marks again..
Eggs, you ask? Then why is it only one worm that comes off?
And I have very closely inspected the base and the body and have found nothing..
So, although I don't want to use intercepter, I am feeling more and more like I should..
The thing that is holding me back - besides all the crabs and shrimps that will be killed, is that the corals are still fairly healthy.. They certainly aren't declining. The jaw dropper is growing like crazy and the other one continues to improve, albeit excruciatingly slowly..
At times I want to toss an intercepter bomb in there and other times I want to wait it out..
Hm... Still undecided...
I guess the longer I think about it the more they will spread..
I'll dip for aefw for sure...

 

[MichaelW]

Get interceptor for the bugs. Honestly it's such an easy treatment. No I'll effects to corals what so ever. As for dipping for the AEFW.. Of you can remove all pieces easily you could do this, encrusted pieces make this hard. And learn from my mistake about using a dip you know is not too harsh. Personally I have been doing the basting with rodi and it seems to work ok. As your corals are healthy they will be fine at fighting of a few that might not get blown off... Obviously this is not an eradication method but a controll though.

 

[reefmutt]

Thanks, Mike.
I know, the treatment is easy but it ain't going to be easy on my 25 peppermint shrimp, 3 acro crabs 12 emerald crabs and pistol shrimp..
It appears I have no choice, however..
Bayer is my only dip for aefw and I've never really lost a coral to bayer. Smooth skin or not.
At the moment, it is the only coral showing signs of aefw predation. It'll be dipped shortly.

 

[MichaelW]

When I used intercepted a while ago I did not have any shrimp or hermitcrabs so can't comment on those. But, I did have an acro crab that is still alive and hanging out in his same coral to this day.
Yes Bayer is fine and what I normally use... And what I will be going back to using. Out of curiosity what ratio do you mix Bayer? ....I just pour in untill water is milky...

 

[shih87]

You know I did red bug treatment back late April. All coral crabs, shrimps were killed, and then without enough water change, die off clean up to start my vocation cause entire tank went down side for one and half months, but if it happen again, I might still do it. Coral can recovery over time and I am lucky that some LFS willing to save their coral crabs for me.

Hope to hear good news from you soon.

 

[Piper27]

Man I would be hesitant to treat your tank for sure. I think you may risk setting things in the wrong direction with interceptor. Since the shrimp probably help control the flatworms and after treatments everyone sees explosions of aefw as well. You could risk aefw getting worse. Also are you sure the black dots are bugs? I have seen the white bugs before, they do seem to like corals that are not as healthy or colored up as the others but don't do much harm either. They like darker areas as well. Once a coral is moved up to light they seemed to move off it. I have seen them in a friend's tank and they just went away. They were in a tank I had once and once but never grew in numbers much. I treated the tank and didn't see them after that from what I remember. How long have you had the white bugs and what other corals are they on or rather how many have them? They seem to also like smooth acros.

 

[Mike de Leon]

Thanks, Mike.
I know, the treatment is easy but it ain't going to be easy on my 25 peppermint shrimp, 3 acro crabs 12 emerald crabs and pistol shrimp..
It appears I have no choice, however..
Bayer is my only dip for aefw and I've never really lost a coral to bayer. Smooth skin or not.
At the moment, it is the only coral showing signs of aefw predation. It'll be dipped shortly.

Not everyone who used interceptor lost inverts. I am one of those exceptions. . I even overdosed. Don't wait any longer. They will reach epidemic proportions.

 

[Piper27]

Yea I had a couple shrimp die but a half or so lived so maybe you will be ok. You could just restock anyways.

 

[Jim Z.]

I have used green clown gobies (Gobiodon histrio complex) to control red bug populations in small reef tanks. They pick them off the branch tips and reduce the impact of the pest on coral health. They do work well when given the opportunity. In a larger tank, you may need more than one, but once they pair-up, they can damage a coral by clearing off coral tissue during egg-laying...............Jim

 

[reefmutt]

When I used intercepted a while ago I did not have any shrimp or hermitcrabs so can't comment on those. But, I did have an acro crab that is still alive and hanging out in his same coral to this day.
Yes Bayer is fine and what I normally use... And what I will be going back to using. Out of curiosity what ratio do you mix Bayer? ....I just pour in untill water is milky...

I usually mix 5-10 ml per 250 ml water.. I'm not very strict on the dose, but it's in that range.

You know I did red bug treatment back late April. All coral crabs, shrimps were killed, and then without enough water change, die off clean up to start my vocation cause entire tank went down side for one and half months, but if it happen again, I might still do it. Coral can recovery over time and I am lucky that some LFS willing to save their coral crabs for me.

Hope to hear good news from you soon.

Thanks, shih. I'm a bit worried about having all those animals die off, but it seems it doesn't always happen..

Man I would be hesitant to treat your tank for sure. I think you may risk setting things in the wrong direction with interceptor. Since the shrimp probably help control the flatworms and after treatments everyone sees explosions of aefw as well. You could risk aefw getting worse. Also are you sure the black dots are bugs? I have seen the white bugs before, they do seem to like corals that are not as healthy or colored up as the others but don't do much harm either. They like darker areas as well. Once a coral is moved up to light they seemed to move off it. I have seen them in a friend's tank and they just went away. They were in a tank I had once and once but never grew in numbers much. I treated the tank and didn't see them after that from what I remember. How long have you had the white bugs and what other corals are they on or rather how many have them? They seem to also like smooth acros.

I'm really not sure how long overdue had the bugs.. I can't see them anymore with my old eyes.. I need to out on reading glasses to see them, now.. Has to be several months, though.
I want to plan it with a supplier. Find out when they are receiving pepps and then I'll treat the tank knowing I can replenish the peppermints right away..
I am hesitant but I'm leaning toward dosing, eventually.

Not everyone who used interceptor lost inverts. I am one of those exceptions. . I even overdosed. Don't wait any longer. They will reach epidemic proportions.

Thanks, Mike. Im glad to know that maybe I won't kill all the animals affected. But I'm not feeling totally stressed about this. I don't feel as though I'm in the verge of total destruction. I know that at any point I can treat them. If I start losing corals, I'll start to worry....

Yea I had a couple shrimp die but a half or so lived so maybe you will be ok. You could just restock anyways.

As above, that's my plan. Have the pepps on standby and then treat.

I have used green clown gobies (Gobiodon histrio complex) to control red bug populations in small reef tanks. They pick them off the branch tips and reduce the impact of the pest on coral health. They do work well when given the opportunity. In a larger tank, you may need more than one, but once they pair-up, they can damage a coral by clearing off coral tissue during egg-laying...............Jim

Thanks Jim. This is very interesting. I have kept the smaller yellow gobies in the past and although they do clear a spot for breeding, I've never seen them do any other damage. I might try adding a couple.
Have you actually seen the gobies physically remove/eat the bugs?
I have found that they tend to choose a coral and never leave that coral. If they choose a coral that is not the affected coral, I wonder if they will actively seek out the bugs...

Thanks for all the insights, guys! As usual, in his hobby there are as many helpful people as there are different personal experiences.. Like always, you have to mine the meta data to find a comfortable solution.

Question: I have 3 pills of Intercepter Spectrum. It have praziquantel in it along with the 23 mg of milbemycin..
I don't remember the prazi being in the mix when I treated in around 2008..
Not sure I want to use these pills..
Opinions?

So, now I got some new shots..
Here's a quick teaser..
Green and red dragons growing together.

 

[Jim Z.]

"Thanks Jim. This is very interesting. I have kept the smaller yellow gobies in the past and although they do clear a spot for breeding, I've never seen them do any other damage. I might try adding a couple.
Have you actually seen the gobies physically remove/eat the bugs?
I have found that they tend to choose a coral and never leave that coral. If they choose a coral that is not the affected coral, I wonder if they will actively seek out the bugs..."

Yes, I have observed them picking at the area around the polyps where red bugs hang out. Red bugs always disappeared about a month after placing a green clown goby in the tank. I have never tried it with the bright yellow species. There's a researcher at Georgia Tech that studied the mutualism between green clown gobies and Acropora nasuta. Apparently, the gobies protect the coral from coral munching predators and they also remove invasive algae from around the coral....................Jim

 

[reefmutt]

Ok, well, I took some new shots yesterday and transferred them to my phone in anticipation of the 2 hour drive we are currently making to see our future puppy.
I'll be posting shots of him later.
Now, I'm sitting in the car with new shots to post!
Here's a couple more of my rapidly growing dragon forest..
The blue dragon is probably growing the quickest..


Here's the upper middle left of the tank:


My blueberry wine is starting to grow well. It's quite a beautiful coral. I can't believe I almost removed this one due to lack of interest. I'm glad I didn't..

More to come.

 

[reefmutt]

"Thanks Jim. This is very interesting. I have kept the smaller yellow gobies in the past and although they do clear a spot for breeding, I've never seen them do any other damage. I might try adding a couple.
Have you actually seen the gobies physically remove/eat the bugs?
I have found that they tend to choose a coral and never leave that coral. If they choose a coral that is not the affected coral, I wonder if they will actively seek out the bugs..."

Yes, I have observed them picking at the area around the polyps where red bugs hang out. Red bugs always disappeared about a month after placing a green clown goby in the tank. I have never tried it with the bright yellow species. There's a researcher at Georgia Tech that studied the mutualism between green clown gobies and Acropora nasuta. Apparently, the gobies protect the coral from coral munching predators and they also remove invasive algae from around the coral....................Jim

Wow! Very cool! I'm going to try a couple.
Thanks!

 

[reefmutt]

Hi, can you post a pic of you Pink Cadillac again please??

Here Mike:

Not great pe and still no purple body but it's done more encrusting than growing.
It's very healthy, though.
Here's my larger jaw dropper..

Cali tort

Oregon tort and pink matrix

Closer OT:

Unknown robin or bull type acro:

Apple jax or palletta pink rip type coral. No lineage..

 

[reefmutt]

We interrupt this broadcast with breaking news..
The breeder (Jean Beliveau) had 3 males and 3 female.
Here are the males:
The one we chose is facing the camera.

My wife wanted a male because she feels that they (once neutered) are more calm and friendly as adults.
We chose this little guy with the white spot:


We pick him up mid August!

 

[plyle02]

Oh come on man, I was having the best day, until you had to drop them dragon pics all over the place, and then jaw dropper, you are evil Matt Top notch my man, top notch!!! The finishing photo with the puppy is just too cool Matt, awesome score, the little puppy is adorable, and your reef looks fantastic!!!

 

[nemodan]

We interrupt this broadcast with breaking news..
The breeder (Jean Beliveau) had 3 males and 3 female.
Here are the males:
The one we chose is facing the camera.

My wife wanted a male because she feels that they (once neutered) are more calm and friendly as adults.
We chose this little guy with the white spot:


We pick him up mid August!

FANTASTIC DOG MATT !!!!!

As you know I love dogs, we have five. That puppy is incredible cute and I like the white spot !!!!

Congrats to ALL THE FAMILY .

DANIEL

 

[reefmutt]

Oh come on man, I was having the best day, until you had to drop them dragon pics all over the place, and then jaw dropper, you are evil Matt Top notch my man, top notch!!! The finishing photo with the puppy is just too cool Matt, awesome score, the little puppy is adorable, and your reef looks fantastic!!!

Perry, it's not easy keeping up with the Jones around here! All these awesome coral shots and doggy shots.
I'm doing my best!
Thanks, man!