LED Color Aesthetics: The Emperor's got no clothes. Or does he?

Disco Effect

Disco Effect

scolley said:
It is exactly as you describe, except that it's not fixed, it does not sit still. Water movement causes it to move somewhat. Thinks about the ripple effect in a swimming pool. Same thing effects the individual colored lights over a tank.

Personally I LIKE the fact that it moves. To me it makes it look less pronounced. I find myself surprised when I take photographs of my tank, and the effect looks more pronounced in the picture, than just looking at the tank. I suspect the eye/brain smooths out some of that rapid movement a bit, making actual tank viewing a bit less offensive.




I chose MH Radiums plus actinics as the standard to measure by in this thread because it is in common use, commonly well liked. And because that's what I had. The debate over MH vs. VHO (or vs. T5) can be all over this forum. Great use for the search button.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much. I've been away and busy working on my new 120 gallon (as well as going to work and all the other necessities of life...you can see it's taking me forever to get my new tank going, but I am in no hurry, I just want to do it right-once http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2108270 ).

So, is it best to group LEDs tightly to prevent this effect, e.g. like on the AI Sol--where blues and whites placed in tight groups ? I've seen some stars being sold with blue and white lights on the same star. How necessary is this ?

Is a simple rectangular grid with LEDs o.k. or better two put e.g. two blues with a white close together so as not to make the disco effect too pronounced ?

Thanks.
 
IF mounted high enough above the tank disco effect will not take place. Also wider lenses help prevent his. Usually 2-3 inches apart is not a problem.
 
Thanks-I want to maintain modularity (if that's a word)--putting everything on a grid makes it easier to swap stuff out...
 
It also seems that the water does a fantastic job of spreading out and defracting the light from LEDs. If you've ever held your array 2' or so above a white piece of paper and waved your hand under it you'll notice very pronounced dico effect even with LEDs only an inch apart with no optics. but throw this array over a tank with water in it and the effect becomes very inconspicuous and is only decernable where you have large shadows, such as from a large rock shelf or coral shading a very white sand bed. It doesn't seem to show up on rock work or other coral as much as it does on a very reflective white terestrial surface.

I was a bit worried after building my first array and looking at the effect it had on my ceiling when I waved my hand several feet above it. but over a tank you almost cant see the effect! A camera will pick it up to some degree more than the human eye though.

But over all I wouldnt worry about it too much!
 
thinking of adding a DIY strip to the back of my Illumina, looking to add a 50;50 mix of wawrm and neutral whites...id tone down the cool whites on the fixture. what are your guys thoughts on this?

ill be adding the violet LED pads from vertex in a few weeks when available aswell.
 
I'm building a LED setup for my 12g aquapod and I have 15 LEDs in all.
4 Royal Blue
2 Blue
2 Violet
2 Warm White
1 Neutral White
1 Cool White
1 Red
1 Cyan
and
1 Green

I have 2 dimmable drivers and plan on running them each with:
4rb 2b 2v on one driver
2ww 1nw 1cw 1g 1c 1r on the other driver
The setup will be like this:

RB - C - B -V - RB
WW-NW-R-CW-WW
RB -V -B- G- RB

The LEDs will have NO optics and will be setup anywhere from 3-6 inches above the tank, what do you guys think?

EDIT: Obviously 15 3w LEDs over a 12g tank is more then enough, I will be running the LEDs at a significantly lower rate then 100%, more like 50%-75%.
I will be able to fine tune the color to what I like, I think, if i have 1 string of violet/blues and 1 string of green->yellow->red
 
I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of LED's for a new tank setup...I would like as close to an ice white as possible with very little blue if possible. Could you guys recommend a ratio of colors for me? I am starting with a base of 63 neutral white XML's in a 7x9 pattern spaced 3" apart with no optics. This will be over a 30x36 foot print tank....Basically, I would like to know what to add in on top of these to get that color I want, which is what I got from my 400watt radiums on HQI. I saw very little blue in that lighting setup and loved it!
 
well from everything i have read, i have come to the conclusion that warm/neutral white its the way to go, also it has coem to my attention recently that Creed are not the best leds if u want warmer colors in ur tank but that rebel es leds are the one to go for warmth.

i guess sooner or later someone with a boat lotta money will buy all of this LED's and also create some and test them and make a standard for the majority.
 
OK I figured it would be better to post what I had in mind for mine. All of the whites will be cree XM-Ls and the blues/UV's will be bridgelux...I like a nice clean white, not a fan of blue tanks :)

picture.php


Thoughts? suggestions?
 
Given your mix, the layout looks good. I think you will definitely be able to achieve a white look with it. I would recommend using dimmable drivers to help you dial in the exact color that you are wanting.
 
From what I've seen LEDs typically have a CRI of about 80 (from zero to 100, where 100 means color rendition indistinguishable from natural light of the same color temperature). 80 is fairly low, about on par with cool white fluorescents. Metal halide color rendition varies wildly, but you can find bulbs with very high color rendition - my Giesemann Megachrome Marines have a CRI of >95.

There's been LEDs with 95 CRI announced, but I'm not sure if they've started showing up in the hobby yet.

It's a bit sad that color rendition has fallen by the wayside in the hobby, you can even find guides to reef lighting which flatly states that color rendition is "irrelevant"... and yes it is irrelevant to the corals, but not always to the aquarist. Especially if you want to take photos.

Then again perception is subjective, your mileage may vary, can't argue with taste etc.
 
I finished my build with 12-rb, 6-nw, 4-red, 4-t and 8 tv. The reds are very bright as are the turquoise but the tv are not. I have them on 4 dimmable drivers so I have good control of the color but I think I may need more tv, I was thinking of getting 6 more, what do you think. The nw are very yellow but they seem to blend well with the other colors. The reds are my least favorite and I am afraid they are going to cause algae problems. I was also surprised at how bright the leds are even dimmed to the lowest setting on the POT. I figured they would dim down to almost nothing.
 
Wasn't I the one suggesting you get more tv's from the beginning? I'm running my reds on Rapid's moonlight driver at only 350 ma. I think it helps toning them down some. The only disadvantage is that the driver is not dimmable.

Yes, it's unfortunate that you can't dim the LED's lower to almost nothing. How is the overall color you are experiencing or are you still trying to find the right dimming settings?
 
I did my setup about 1 year ago with 13 cw/13 nw/39 rb/4 b, and I have been very happy with the color so far. The neutral white do pick up a fair amount of the orange/ red specturm. If you use a few neutral or even warm whites, I think the reds are not needed.
 
A month or so ago I picked up a couple green XP-Es, a couple Osram 660nm reds, and a couple violets at 390-420 nm. For a test I wired them up to a Mean Well LPC-35-700 to run them at 700 ma. All of them were mounted to a heat sink that allowed me to hold the fixture alongside of my current LED rig. It allowed a good A-B comparison of my tank with these added, and without.

The my base "without" setup is the following XR-Es:

  • 6 Neutral White
  • 2 Cool White
  • 2 Blue
  • 14 Royal Blue
I tested by holding the test fixture with the green, red, and violet beside the normal fixture. The normal fixture I ran at 100% (1000 ma) and with nothing but RBs running at 100 ma.

I'm very comfortable saying I did not like the results. Did not like the color rendition. So I changed my testing. I used black electrical tape over optics to cover the new LEDs (green, red, violet) one at a time, and two at a time. So I repeated the original test (base setup at 1000 ma all LEDs, and 100 ma just RBs) with the following additional colors:

  • red alone
  • green alone
  • violet alone
  • red and green
  • red and violet
  • green and violet
And since the LEDs I was testing were mounted to a their own small heatsink, I was able to view it with it next to my regular fixture, and to bring it to the front of the tank, putting it next to the glass and close to may corals, or lower it close to the surface of the water. Both had an amplifying effect on those particular colors.

My conclusions?


  1. Green is NOT needed. With the CW and NW I'm running now. Not only does it not add, it overpowers with green. Someone posted this 20-30 posts ago. Sorry I can't find it to give you credit. But I'm in full agreement.
  2. Red helps, but only in limited color ranges. And in the ranges it does help, it can be dramatic. Generally I could not see the effect, but I've got a red serpent star that exploded with color under the reds.
  3. Violet can have a dramatic effect on making colors pop, but it has to be a lot of violet. yeldarbj has posted this, and I'm in full agreement. I really only saw the effect when I held the fixture close to the tank, but then it was wonderful and did not turn the tank a purple or violet color. It only made some colors much brighter.

Not sure how I'm going to incorporate this into my fixture. I'll add in a couple of reds. And I'm going to have to figure out a way to add a bunch of violets because if you get enough of it, it looks great. And the greens... they're going in the trash bin.
 
I have 4 turquoise but they look really green without the typical hint of blue. Think of green Christmas bulbs. Yeldarbj is correct when he says you need a lot of TV to make a difference so I am going to get some more. Also the 420nm spectrum is supposed to promote coral growth or so I read somewhere. I like the colors that I can get with my combination but now my wife and I have a difference of opinion in terms of color. She likes the very strong blue and I don't. I will admit it is pretty amazing what you get with just the RB or the TV alone. Not very natural but kind of like a velvet Elvis.

Can I put 14 leds on one Inventronics 40W driver?
 
Yes and No
The 350 ma will probably support 15, the 3300ma will not. What current are you expecting to run at and what LEDs are you planning to use?
 
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