link for petiton to end PetCo abuse of marine life
- Thread starter epiphanus
- Start date
weluvfish54
New member
i was til they wanted money. good way to get scammed imo
Not a scam, they pay for the website with donations only. You do NOT have to donate anything to sign this petition. I encourage you to take another look.
By the way, I have no affiliation with the site, I heard about it on another forum and strongly agree with the aims of the petition. I am not necessarily AGAINST PetCo as a company, I am FOR more responsibility in the trade of wild animals in general.
weluvfish54
New member
oooh my bad i wasnt aware that it posted before they ask for the donation. i signed 
my petco has 90% dead fish every time..its horrible. tangs in 10 gallons...etc
my petco has 90% dead fish every time..its horrible. tangs in 10 gallons...etcI know what you mean about the tangs, how can they explain turning down the sale of a yellow tang to a new hobbyist with a 20-gal in these circumstances? Not only does this set their customers up for failure, it sets the bar unacceptably low for their competitors. One time when I questioned an employee at my PetCo about their policy of keeping brackish water fish in their freshwater system while pointing out that they obviously were severely infested with parasites, I got the reply that "we had nowhere else to put them." He then recommended a medication, seemingly attempting to sell me a sick fish and a medication they were too cheap or incompetent to use themselves. I couldn't believe it. I've worked in local fish stores for many years and never heard of anyone doing something like that. I can't imagine how their employees could put armfuls of damsels in a small tank tank and then do nothing as they rip each other to shreds, shipment after shipment. Not to go on and on, though I could, but this will make you think-- once I saw an ornate butterflyfish with the label "can be trained to eat prepared foods"-- they didn't have that little factoid on the labels for their other fish, so it seems to me that someone somewhere knew that they are coral eaters that almost invariably die of starvation in aquaria, and came up with a deceptive way to cover their butts while implying that the fish was actually easy to feed. The customer is ripped off and discouraged, a beautiful rare fish dies a slow, unnecessarry premature death and the company nets, what, a buck or two when all is said and done? It's simply stupid.
Enough horror stories from me.
Enough horror stories from me.
I would hope that the petition gets presented to the company-- again, I'm not affiliated with the site, nor do I have any idea how the process works, much less the intention of the individuals who run these site. But, it costs nothing to give your voice. In the worst case it will fall on deaf ears, but that's still better than utter indifference. In a better case, company managers will see the concern among hobbyists as something that could limit the success of their company (profit) and act accordingly. I agree about the option of shutting your wallet-- a petition like this is merely to tell them WHY we shut our wallets.
What beerguy said - vote with your wallet....always!
I wouldn't sign this petition simply because it is poorly written and full of rhetoric with no substantiation. I don't know a Petco from a Petsmart, and don't frequent any chain pet stores, but really, the burden is on the petition's creator to be fair and accurate in their statements, and all we get is:
"Petco's across the Untied States have been slaughtering marine life and continue to do so everyday without regard for the rarity of any species."
First, the use of the word slaughter is incorrect. That implies that Petco actively kills animals, and that is their goal. Deaths caused by inaction or improper action is by definition, not slaughter. That doesn't make it right, but it has a different connotation.
Rarity CANNOT be the basis for how we regard any species. I doubt they actually mean what they wrote, but the implication is that it is worse if Petco kills a piece of coral than if it kills a goldfish...that is not defensible.
Jay
I wouldn't sign this petition simply because it is poorly written and full of rhetoric with no substantiation. I don't know a Petco from a Petsmart, and don't frequent any chain pet stores, but really, the burden is on the petition's creator to be fair and accurate in their statements, and all we get is:
"Petco's across the Untied States have been slaughtering marine life and continue to do so everyday without regard for the rarity of any species."
First, the use of the word slaughter is incorrect. That implies that Petco actively kills animals, and that is their goal. Deaths caused by inaction or improper action is by definition, not slaughter. That doesn't make it right, but it has a different connotation.
Rarity CANNOT be the basis for how we regard any species. I doubt they actually mean what they wrote, but the implication is that it is worse if Petco kills a piece of coral than if it kills a goldfish...that is not defensible.
Jay
It's what the plan-o-gram calls for. In other words that is what the company dictates they do. Same with shoving multiple tangs in one little cube. Like was mentioned before, vote with your wallet. That includes buying dry goods and things like dog food, not just the fish.
You make an excellent point. The petition could certainly be worded better. But, with all due respect (I really like your book), nobody is filing a civil case against them or anything, it serves only to reflect the feelings some hobbyists (customer or not) and could reasonably use this kind of language, if only to accurately communicate the anger some feel about their policies. For example, no one is expected to believe that they "slaughter" pets-- but accepting high livestock mortality if the bottom line dictates is a moral equivalent in the opinion of some. Especially when it is wild. Maybe there is no MORAL DIFFERENCE between abusing a goldfish and some endangered species but there is a far greater ECOLOGICAL CONSEQUENCE. PetCo policies may not be against the law, but when a massive co. like PetCo openly flaunts practices like this they are inviting such laws (laws that would not only hurt themselves more conscientious stores).
But, yes, Mr. Hemdal, the language of the petition is emotional and subjective, if not radical. That's the stuff of a PR campaign. A company like PetCo has lawers like Vader has stormtroopers. They're not concerned with legal threats, as things stand. They likely ARE very concerned, though, about PR. While I must state that I hardly agree with all PETA's tactics, it's hard not to point out how effective its PR war was in convincing the company to stop selling birds if they wouldn't improve cage conditions-- they stopped selling birds.
This is not some big crusade of mine... like I said, I just thought folks might want to add their voice to the message.
Again, use your wallet, but tell them why.
epiphanus,
As you know, I'm very interested in aquarium ethics. My post was (just slightly) a bit of a "troll" to try and get people to think of some different perspectives. I agree with you that these companies will avoid a major PR debacle at all costs...but I think they will react more swiftly to a loss in sales (and swifter still if both problems are combined). My main point is still that if the petition was worded in a more reasonable fashion, more people would be willing to accept it and sign.
Jay
As you know, I'm very interested in aquarium ethics. My post was (just slightly) a bit of a "troll" to try and get people to think of some different perspectives. I agree with you that these companies will avoid a major PR debacle at all costs...but I think they will react more swiftly to a loss in sales (and swifter still if both problems are combined). My main point is still that if the petition was worded in a more reasonable fashion, more people would be willing to accept it and sign.
Jay
Thanks again for your thoughts. Yeah, I agree that both tactics, used together, send the strongest message. I can assure everyone, having worked in a half-dozen LFS's and seeing what happens to a local market when one of the superstores comes to town, that the "voting with your wallet" approach alone is woefully ineffective when everyone else is doing the same-- except that they vote for that devil the "lower" price. I recognize PetCo's right to exist and to conduct business in whatever way it deems best for its shareholders-- just so long as it hires only competent and honest salespeople AND it refrains from deception. It is usually the inexperienced hobbyist (who is really just trying save a dollar or two on a chocolate chip star) that falls for this crap.
But again, I wish that it had been worded differently myself. It is unnecessarily antagonistic, and lacks specific complaints. Thankfully, the petion allows for individuals to make some of their own comments, in which I listed specifically some of my own experiences at my own local PetCo. With all of its faults, it serves its purpose as a wake-up call that their policies will ultimately cause them to lose money, and gives real people (with real wallets) an opportunity to tell them exactly WHY.
But again, I wish that it had been worded differently myself. It is unnecessarily antagonistic, and lacks specific complaints. Thankfully, the petion allows for individuals to make some of their own comments, in which I listed specifically some of my own experiences at my own local PetCo. With all of its faults, it serves its purpose as a wake-up call that their policies will ultimately cause them to lose money, and gives real people (with real wallets) an opportunity to tell them exactly WHY.
OMG Yes,and double Yes. Recently, after not being in the hobby for a few years, and because of now having the time to dedicate to reefkeeping, I went to my local petco. There was no Petco when i was in the hobby back then. And after learning that my local mom and pop lfs (reefing couple) was not in service any longer I learned that petco was the only place for reef animals (forget corals). I was horrified at the "tank" that there only three saltwater sih, three yellow tangs, were in. Including the scorching case of ich that they all had. I fled Petco, heartbroken for them, in a record 5 minutes.
*shivers*
*shivers*
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well, I feel the need to say a few words in regards to the petco situation.
I started my first tank (80g) in 10/05. since I knew nothing, and I hadn't heard of any internet reef sites, my lfs guy sold me and put this tank together. He was supposed to be the knowledgeable one, well he was the one who told me I could add fish a week after getting the thing set up. I went to my local petco (his competitor of course) and bought a foxface, 6 damsels, & a clown fish. well, to this day, all the petco animals surivived the "cycling" period that the lfs didn't inform me that I would have. not only did they survive, they are all alive to this day--3 years later. this particular lfs couldn't keep a fish alive if his life depended on it. this lfs is now out of business.
I went back to petco last week. I have since done a 180g upgrade that has 3 fish. I wanted more. so, petco had 2 black ocelaris clowns and a pretty tang. a full week later they are all three doing great!! went back two days ago, and wanted a foxface due to a HA outbreak in my frag tank. I found the so-called "aquatic specialist" and he mentioned how they were considered "deathco". I told him of this site, and said "I would be scared b/c petco gets bashed so much". I said "you are right". According to him, headquarters gives them a budget of $100/week. yes, $100/week to buy any salt water critters. He said he has since gotten them to raise it to $400/week as $100 could not buy anything.
IMO, petco is just like any other LFS. they get a bad rap b/c they are a chain. but, IMO if your particular store mgr doesn't give two licks, then you will have a store that sells cruddy animals. Obviously, my petco has hired a young lad who admitted to me he knows nothing about reefs (this store doesn't sells corals anyway besides condylactic anemones) but he knew his fishes. He knew how to do water changes, he new how to care for the fish, he put the tangs in the biggest tanks they had, and the snails in the small tanks.
a store is only as good as the personnel it hires. in my case, the petco was much cleaner, & nicer than the LFS that was 1 mile down the road. Petco's are not any different than any LFS-you got some good ones you got some bad ones (unfortunately).
I started my first tank (80g) in 10/05. since I knew nothing, and I hadn't heard of any internet reef sites, my lfs guy sold me and put this tank together. He was supposed to be the knowledgeable one, well he was the one who told me I could add fish a week after getting the thing set up. I went to my local petco (his competitor of course) and bought a foxface, 6 damsels, & a clown fish. well, to this day, all the petco animals surivived the "cycling" period that the lfs didn't inform me that I would have. not only did they survive, they are all alive to this day--3 years later. this particular lfs couldn't keep a fish alive if his life depended on it. this lfs is now out of business.
I went back to petco last week. I have since done a 180g upgrade that has 3 fish. I wanted more. so, petco had 2 black ocelaris clowns and a pretty tang. a full week later they are all three doing great!! went back two days ago, and wanted a foxface due to a HA outbreak in my frag tank. I found the so-called "aquatic specialist" and he mentioned how they were considered "deathco". I told him of this site, and said "I would be scared b/c petco gets bashed so much". I said "you are right". According to him, headquarters gives them a budget of $100/week. yes, $100/week to buy any salt water critters. He said he has since gotten them to raise it to $400/week as $100 could not buy anything.
IMO, petco is just like any other LFS. they get a bad rap b/c they are a chain. but, IMO if your particular store mgr doesn't give two licks, then you will have a store that sells cruddy animals. Obviously, my petco has hired a young lad who admitted to me he knows nothing about reefs (this store doesn't sells corals anyway besides condylactic anemones) but he knew his fishes. He knew how to do water changes, he new how to care for the fish, he put the tangs in the biggest tanks they had, and the snails in the small tanks.
a store is only as good as the personnel it hires. in my case, the petco was much cleaner, & nicer than the LFS that was 1 mile down the road. Petco's are not any different than any LFS-you got some good ones you got some bad ones (unfortunately).
Some petco employees may be great, honest, knowlegable people. The petition is not against them, but against petco policy, which could include (among many other things) its insistence on carrying brackish fish but not supplying brackish aquaria, overcrowding, mixing of incompatible species, deceptive label info, and so on. Also, nobody has said that every LFS is good. There are bad ones, and they go out of business much faster than any bad petco would. If this were about the employees, I'd stand by my assertion that the average LFS staff is far more experienced and competent than the average petco staff. I'd go further though in saying that lfs's are not just an alternative to the local chain store, each one is unique with regard to the type and quality of its livestock, dry goods, customer service, etc. Whether one is an expert or a complete beginner, I can only suggest shopping at professional aquarium retailers. When you find the best shop, don't just use them for free advice and then turn around and buy everything online. Or at deathco.
well coolwaves, if this is the case, then are you going to start a petition against wallyworld??? my wallyworld is so crammed full the fish can't even move!! it's unreal! IMO, the walmarts in my area are FAR WORSE than my petco.
I can count on one hand how many times I've been to my petco in the past 5 years. so, I have no affiliation w/ any store. you say this petition is against their "policies", well like I just said, it's based on each store! my store didn't carry incompatible species, each fish was labeled correctly, I didn't see any brackish fish, their were no fish diseases, no FW"s, they were fat and healthy, and quite honestly, would go back in a second.
do you honestly think one rinky dink petition is going to change their ways?? if you start a petition against them, why aren't we starting petitions against the walmarts of the world??
this is a useless debate, and honestly I don't see why petco's are so singled out
I can count on one hand how many times I've been to my petco in the past 5 years. so, I have no affiliation w/ any store. you say this petition is against their "policies", well like I just said, it's based on each store! my store didn't carry incompatible species, each fish was labeled correctly, I didn't see any brackish fish, their were no fish diseases, no FW"s, they were fat and healthy, and quite honestly, would go back in a second.
do you honestly think one rinky dink petition is going to change their ways?? if you start a petition against them, why aren't we starting petitions against the walmarts of the world??
this is a useless debate, and honestly I don't see why petco's are so singled out
I reiterate: My complaints are against their policy. If it was against company policy to do the things they do, the abuses described in the previous posts wouldn't occur at any petco location. I have nothing to do with this petition, nor do I have any interest in petitioning walmart. You are correct in esserting that they are worse, and I would sign a similar petition for them as well. I would sign any petition, even directed at the ma-and-pa store, if its aim was to call into question practices that clearly abuse animals, customers and/or natural resources.
I nonetheless commend your vigorous defense of petco. You certainly don't appear to see this as a "useless debate." It is clear that you have had very positive experiences at this particular location. I can only assume that exceptionally loyal customers have as much of an impact on policymaking as the dissatisfied customers do. I would suggest expressing your gratitude to the management in very specific terms, so that they understand that their good work makes a real difference. As far as I'm concerned, from what I've experienced at petco (at least two locations), I see this petition as appropriate and I have signed it. I don't want any bad petcos, walmarts, lfs's or online vendors.
I nonetheless commend your vigorous defense of petco. You certainly don't appear to see this as a "useless debate." It is clear that you have had very positive experiences at this particular location. I can only assume that exceptionally loyal customers have as much of an impact on policymaking as the dissatisfied customers do. I would suggest expressing your gratitude to the management in very specific terms, so that they understand that their good work makes a real difference. As far as I'm concerned, from what I've experienced at petco (at least two locations), I see this petition as appropriate and I have signed it. I don't want any bad petcos, walmarts, lfs's or online vendors.
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