Lost or losing all my SPS - still not sure why.

[ycnibrc]

hi there
Could you back track before your tank crash about 1 1/2 month ago? Try to remember if you do anything different before the tank crash. Example new salt,new rodi filter,new light,new coral,new additive. Do you feed your fish different stuff ? Do you have any kid?sometime they can put stuff in your tank that you don't know. It has to start from something that you change because your tank has been good for a while. I notice you say your tank was set up since summer 2007 which is only 3 to 5 months. May be your parameter are not stable yet....

Hope this will help

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Wow thanks for checking on that for me Serioussnaps. I use an Air Water Ice Typhoon III.

Ycnibrc,

I've been trying to think of things done differently, I can't come up with anything particular. But obviously there has to be something. No kids, but 2 cats. As a precautionary measure they are no longer allowed in the tank room though. The tank was set up this past summer, everything was transferred from a 75. I would like to blame the move, but for a few weeks (maybe a month) everything was doing great, all frags laid down new bases, etc.

 

[dots]

North Carolina ehh? I never noticed that you guys were from there, never been myself, but up until my grandparents translplanted to Cali, my family had lived in Buncombe county (Asheville and Canton) for 200 years.......had a gggggrandfather fight in the Revolutionary War there.

I heard my last name though not very common out here, is very common in that neck of the woods.......Spivey.

Oh, yeah........

my tips started burning and receeding again today......time for another large WC I guess.

I switched my bulbs........new 14K Iwasaki 250DEs......maybe that will help.

Seems like were throwing darts at a dartboard trying to find out what it is these day, don't you think?

Gettting a little tired of it myself.......

 

[ycnibrc]

Hi Lobster

Do you run ozone?

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Nope. Were you suggesting that as a cause, or a solution?

 

[tmz]

Sorry for your losses.Sometimes large water changes can trigger problems paticularly if your corals are already weakened by nipping. Most salt mixes contain metals and other nasties at levels that are significantly higher than nsw. They precipitate out o solution over time which is why ,I think, new water is described as harsh and why smaller water changes more frequently are prefered. Could your salt mix be adding something ?

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

When the problem started I was doing 30g water changes on a 150g total system volume about every two weeks. I am using a 50-50 mix of IO and Oceanic for my waterchanges.

 

[ycnibrc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11061818#post11061818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
Nope. Were you suggesting that as a cause, or a solution?

a cause. I have been reading your thread and kip. I believe he has ozone in his system so I just want to find some common ground between the 2 tank. If you don't mind I ask too many question but I love to trouble shoot.... Do you have any picture of your problem sps?

 

[tmz]

This is purely anecdotal but fyi, Your situation is one of a half dozen or so I have heard about and Oceanic has been on the scene in all of them.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Nah I certianly dont mind the questions. I just feel bad when I shoot down every suggestion...

I dont think What I am seeing is the same (exact) thing as Kip. His progresses much slower, and is acropora-specific. Whatever is wrong with my tank affects all SPS and some LPS.

Do you have any picture of your problem sps?

Yeah, sure:

Oh, thats not what you meant? :lol:

Dont have many good pictures, but here are some:

Green slimer, mostly receeding from the tips but has bare patches throughout:

A few frags missing random tip/base/corallite tissue

M. Spongides which over a period of weeks appeared as if the tissue sunk into the skeleton.

Some others which I dont have pics for basically just withered away... kind of faded out uniformly. Imagine lightly rubbing sandpaper over the entire coral once a day for a few weeks until eventually there is nothing left.

 

[ycnibrc]

well I can ruin out bacteria infection since you three have not add any new corals since your system crash. This looklike a chemical problem something that you add to the tank and it have a reaction. Check all of your additive and see if it smell weird or out dated. Do you feed any different than before? Do you have substrate on the bottom? If you do I suggest you take them out. If you have a chemical problem with substrate no matter how many gallon of water you change it will not help.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

The only additives I use are a mix of MgCl2 and MgSO4 (from twopartsolution.com) to bring Mg levels up in my new water change water, and a Calcium reactor with ARM media and ZeoMag to maintain Ca, Alk, and Mg. Feeding has changed, but nothing has been added, only taken away. I used to feed about 4 times daily, sometimes frozen cubes and sometimes dry foods. Now I only feed about 2 cubes of frozen food daily. The food is a little freezer-burned because I am getting towards the end of the package.

I do have a sandbed, it is just enough to cover the bottom, maybe 1/4". It was rinsed out during the move, so the sandbed is only a few months old.

 

[ycnibrc]

do you run se or de halide?

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

SE

The bulbs are XM 20K, new as of july. Previously the corals were under EVC 10K.

 

[ycnibrc]

do you notice your coral change color before the crash?
This what I observe from 3 tank your's,kingkong,64ivy.

most of your sps have problem from the top and slowly die out.
all three tank has no substrate or barely some
all three tank have strong flow

now this is what I think what cause your sps to die slowly

Something change in the envirormental which cause your zooxanthella in your corals die off

*your tank-->move from old tank,new light
*64ivy--->change to new light
*kingkong-->high silicate/high potassum

Coral are under constant disturbance, which is ultimately felt by the zooxanthellae living within their tissues. Exposure to air during extremely low tides or damage from intensifying solar radiation in shallow water environments are some of the ecological stressors zooxanthellae face. Temperature changes have provided the most stress to the zooxanthellae-coral relationship. A rise in temperature of 1-2 degrees Celsius for 5-10 weeks or a decline in temperature of 3-5 degrees Celsius for 5-10 days has resulted in a coral bleaching event. Strong temperature changes shock the zooxanthellae and cause them to suffer cell adhesion dysfunction which sees the detachment of the cnidarian endodermal cells from the zooxanthellae.

I paste the article above so you can read. Since all of three tank die of start from the top down I suspect your change enviroment cause the zooxanthellae slowly die now your new light source or old light will burn the coral further more since your coral's zooxanthellae are dieing. Now when your corals are weak the tissue become softer and can not withstand the flow therefore most of die off start from the top where the flow is strongest.

All three tank crash in summer time so may be the temperature swing and cause the stress in the zooxanthellae slowly then with new light that further more damage the corals. I remember Kip change his aquascape before the die off. Also he change his bulb kevin from 10k to 14k.

I don't think it's a water problem because in the ocean this problem also occur and there are millions of water move through.

All corals still die when kip move to a different tank proof to me that the corals zooxanthellae have been damaged therefore no matter where you move the coral,it's still die.

did you mention that you order some new corals? If your new corals doing fine then my theory is correct. If it's still have the same problem then I'm wrong.

Let me know how's your new corals doing?

And good luck

 

[tmz]

I still suspect you salt mix.

 

[ycnibrc]

another note

Zooxanthellae need phosphate (like true plants) to grow and

reproduce. Thus, it is self evident zooxanthellae benefit from the

phosphate corals produce as waste products.

All three tanks might be too clean with BB and minimum substrate

your coral's zoozanthellae have nothing to reproduce therefore it decline through time.

 

[tmz]

For the corals in your tank,fish feeding and fish waste should provide enough phosphate. Some corals do seem to like dirtier water,nemenzophylia and xenia for example but generally not sps.

 

[wentreefgirl]

I was going to say mixing 2 brands of salt together. Not really sure how much the tank is getting in some of the metals etc.

 

[ycnibrc]

I agree but I notice most BB tank or clean tank always complain about their corals lighten up. That a sign of the coral's zooxanthanlea have an issue. All corals live and grow by their zooxanthanlea relation with photosynthesis. High phosphate does not directly kill the coral. The nuisance algae grow and blocking the light to the corals tissue stopping photosynthesis kill the coral. I can not conclude that zooxanthanlea is the problem but all the clue that I read about the 3 tank point toward that direction.