Lots of talk here lately about Chloramines in our water

This behavoir of breaking Chloramine down is just as effective in a well maintained (regularly replaced) standard "Made in USA" carbon block versus the more expensive "Chloramine" block.

Up here in Tampa - we had a post a few months ago about this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2319248

The long and short of it was: The only economical solution (if you really think you need to run an expensive (what manafacters and marketers call) chloramine block - get the BRS monster and plumb it in line between your two regular carbon blocks.

Randy Holmes Farley has an article on this too: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

Another method for removing chloramine from water is with activated carbon (as is contained in most RO/DI systems).
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Ok so I got a Chloramine test Kit. Im a little disappointed that it is a Qualitative kit, and not a Quantitative Kit. In other words it only tells you yea or nea with the presence of Chloramines.

IMG_4643_zps1b24b645.jpg
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From the Filter Guys. Only $16, but again, my bad. I would prefer a Quantitative Kit that actually gives the amount versus just the presence.

IMG_4644_zpsd6f39980.jpg
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For anybody that has a doubt, pink means the presence of Chloramines. This is right after adding the reagent, i didnt even have to wait the 3 minutes. The vial on the left is the control (no reagent), the one on the right is after reagent added. This is Pembroke Pines tap water!!!

IMG_4646_zps4f8a3ddb.jpg
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This picture is of the output of my RO/DI output with Chloramine "blocks". They are probably less than 2 months old. Its hard to tell in the picture but there is definately a tinge of pink in the test vial as compared to the control vial.

Long story short even AFTER the chloramine blocks in my RO/DI some CHloramine is getting through. How much?? Do know. I will likely splurge on the Quantitative kit mentioned in the above mentioned articles.
 
I see the box says Chloramines / Chlorine. What is the indicator color for Chlorine?

Maybe your blocks did break up the Chloramines into NH3 and Cl and the kit is detecting trace Chlorine?
 
Eddie,

Which chloramines block are you using?

I have catalytic carbon produced by 2 different companies. I would be curious if one preforms better than the other.
 
nivram said:
I've read the article before when Marcel found out Boynton Beach or where ever up there had chloramine years ago. I may be wrong but my understanding is that if you are running your std rodi filters, the carbon block we run breaks the chloramine up into chlorine and ammonia. Thus why I stated testing for chlorine.

Maybe one of the chemistry gurus can chime in on this.
Click to expand...

Marvin- i see what your saying. according the the article chloramines is measure by the difference between free chlorine and total chlorine.
 
Ted_C said:
I see the box says Chloramines / Chlorine. What is the indicator color for Chlorine?

Maybe your blocks did break up the Chloramines into NH3 and Cl and the kit is detecting trace Chlorine?
Click to expand...

Good point Ted.

The kits instructions says "Any shade of pink in the second sample vial indicates the presence of Chorine/Choramine in your production water".

Adam13- I am using the Filter guys chloramine buster package.
 
That presence in your output water is troubling news on many levels:

- if it's indeed chlorine (and not chloramine) - the final stage DI should have scrubbed it out.
- if it's chloramine - then your blocks aren't doing what they are supposed to be doing.
 
Eddie as you asked I have looked at the thread and will do my best at answering your questions. I have chloramines in my municipal water so have firsthand knowledge on filtration over the last ten years. Our municipal water plant is very stable in application rates so we do not see a lot of application spikes which makes a difference in filter performance.

I see several details that are not quit correct in the thread so hopefully I can guide you a little better.

All carbon filters will filter chloramines but cheap low capacity filters are a danger and exhausted very quickly. We believe chloramines can reduce carbons filtration capacity by up to 80%. For best results you should be running at least two stages of high quality carbon filters to obtain proper carbon contact time. We use carbon block filters so we see no pressure drop from carbon dust, pressure drop can come in time due to carbon breakdown from filtration. Granular activated catalytic carbon has dust so cartridges are in most cases not refillable due to large pressure drops after a single use. I recommend a time frame of no longer than six months for filter change and consider a set gallonage a poor guide because municipal application rates can be all over the place. If you see a pressure drop below 50 psi change filters sooner.

Municipal water system shocking is something I have never heard of before and may be something local to your location. It is hard to say if they are going above the EPA max standard rate of 4.0 or not.

We had to build our own test kit and all you really want to know is my RO/DI system obtaining complete filtration. Eddie did you run more than one test with the same lite pink result?

Chloramine is made by adding ammonia gas to chlorine disinfected water so a test is really testing for both products. Municipal water plants can switch back and forth from chlorine to chloramines at the drop of a hat so you want to be testing for both at one time The ammonia byproduct is removed with DI resin if your using RO water it will test for ammonia and should be removed with DI resin.

Your thread is long so I may not have answered all the questions but I will follow and respond.

Jim
 
Thefilterguys said:
Eddie as you asked I have looked at the thread and will do my best at answering your questions. I have chloramines in my municipal water so have firsthand knowledge on filtration over the last ten years. Our municipal water plant is very stable in application rates so we do not see a lot of application spikes which makes a difference in filter performance.

I see several details that are not quit correct in the thread so hopefully I can guide you a little better.

All carbon filters will filter chloramines but cheap low capacity filters are a danger and exhausted very quickly. We believe chloramines can reduce carbons filtration capacity by up to 80%. For best results you should be running at least two stages of high quality carbon filters to obtain proper carbon contact time. We use carbon block filters so we see no pressure drop from carbon dust, pressure drop can come in time due to carbon breakdown from filtration. Granular activated catalytic carbon has dust so cartridges are in most cases not refillable due to large pressure drops after a single use. I recommend a time frame of no longer than six months for filter change and consider a set gallonage a poor guide because municipal application rates can be all over the place. If you see a pressure drop below 50 psi change filters sooner.

Municipal water system shocking is something I have never heard of before and may be something local to your location. It is hard to say if they are going above the EPA max standard rate of 4.0 or not.

We had to build our own test kit and all you really want to know is my RO/DI system obtaining complete filtration. Eddie did you run more than one test with the same lite pink result?

Chloramine is made by adding ammonia gas to chlorine disinfected water so a test is really testing for both products. Municipal water plants can switch back and forth from chlorine to chloramines at the drop of a hat so you want to be testing for both at one time The ammonia byproduct is removed with DI resin if your using RO water it will test for ammonia and should be removed with DI resin.

Your thread is long so I may not have answered all the questions but I will follow and respond.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim- i really appreciate you taking the time to help us out here in South Florida. We briefly met in Dallas MACNA a few years ago at the hotel. Hope you enjoyed this last one. Our group put it together. I was too busy running around as one of the organizers so didnt see you guys here.

A few questions and comments.

You say change filters earlier if <50psi. Where is this measured? I have a guage at the input into the whole unit. Should I/ we be putting a guage at the input to the RO?

No i only did ONE test of my ro/di water. But, i JUST did a second and third test and got ZERO pink. Interesting.

Yes Jim- i also have seen memos and advisories from local municipalities of them "shocking" their systems. So it is pretty common down here.

Again thanks for helping us out with your expertise. For folks like us, what package do you recommend from your products that will give us a long lasting (im fine with 6 months) result? I cant remember the kit a bought from you 2 months ago, other than it was one of your chloramine kits.

Regards,
Eddie
 
Great info!

I just recently purchased a refillable catalytic carbon cartridge and swapped it out for my 2nd carbon in my r/o unit.

Now its water IN--->sediment--->5micron carbon---->catalytic carbon--->r/o membrane---->double DI--->water OUT.

I'm assuming if I added the catalytic to this instead of swapping out I would make it the last stage before the membrane.
 
DRThompson said:
Great info!

I just recently purchased a refillable catalytic carbon cartridge and swapped it out for my 2nd carbon in my r/o unit.

Now its water IN--->sediment--->5micron carbon---->catalytic carbon--->r/o membrane---->double DI--->water OUT.

I'm assuming if I added the catalytic to this instead of swapping out I would make it the last stage before the membrane.
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Dr Thompsom- hopefully the experts at Filterguys will respond. I have a lot of trust in them.

Im almost sure I bought their Ultra Chloramine pack plus DI:
1 POLY SEDIMENT 1 MICRON FILTER
1 CHLORAMINE MASTER FILTER ACTIVATED CATALYTIC CARBON
1 CHLORAMINE MASTER NH2CL STAGE 3 CARBON BLOCK
1 COLOR CHANGING DI CARTRIDG. But im not sure.

They also have a kit:CARBON BLOCK CHLORAMINE PLUS DI
1 POLY SEDIMENT 1 MICRON FILTER
1 CHLORAMINE MASTER NH2CL STAGE 2 CARBON BLOCK
1 CHLORAMINE MASTER NH2CL STAGE 3 CARBON BLOCK
1 COLOR CHANGING DI RESIN CARTRIDGE.

What would be best for us here in South Florida, ill leave up to them. even though its a little pricey, i wouldnt mind if its only needed twice per year.
 
DRThompson said:
Great info!

I just recently purchased a refillable catalytic carbon cartridge and swapped it out for my 2nd carbon in my r/o unit.

Now its water IN--->sediment--->5micron carbon---->catalytic carbon--->r/o membrane---->double DI--->water OUT.

I'm assuming if I added the catalytic to this instead of swapping out I would make it the last stage before the membrane.
Click to expand...

Dave if you check out most sites don't they have the catalytic replacing the 5 micron carbon
 
What's a good chloramine test kit and where can I get it? I'd like to know how much is present and not just a positive or negative.
 
It's easier to just pull up a water report. From speaking to a buddy of mine that is a RO specialist, brs, and buckeye field supply; I've come to the conclusion that if there are any chloramines whatsoever, a different type of carbon needs to be run. For lower levels, a catalytic carbon is fine. For higher levels, it's best to run a canister of catalytic carbon and a pentek chlorplus block. Your standard carbon can remove chloramines but it will depleted quickly which can lead to damaging the membrane.
 
"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."
―Qui-Gon Jinn, to Anakin Skywalker[src]
 
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