Lunchbucket's 48"x48"x20" Reef

[Lunchbucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11650071#post11650071 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Why not skip the 90's and use flexible PVC?

Hmmm...not a bad idea. I guess for 1.09 per foot that isn't bad. Heck I have about 10ft of hard pipe where I am at right now so I could finish everything for about 20ft or so I bet (overflow plumbing and all). Not a bad price and w/ the cost of the fittings I could probably save some $$.

Only thing about SpaFlex would be that it isn't rigid. Don't get my wrong that is nice and it is a pain too. So what is the 100% story on gluing spaflex to PVC fittings. Some say you need special glue some say it doesn't glue right. What is the real story.

So is the stuff at Savko the really flexible nice stuff? I got about 1.5ft from Lowes and it is pretty stiff.

thanks
Lunchbucket

 

[melev]

To make it more bendy, put it in the oven for 5 minutes at 200F.

You can buy the appropriate Oatley's cement at Home Depot/Lowes. I believe the label is red, rather than gold / black.

It is how my plumbing is done both under the 280g as well as my angled tank.

 

[maxxII]

I used barbed fittings, dipped the spa flex in boiling water for a few minutes to get it nice and soft, and allow the barbed fittings to seat properly. I never glued anything on the 58 gallon, and didnt have any leaks for the two years it was set up.

Nick

 

[Lunchbucket]

Well guess I'm off to check out Marc's plumbing

You guys ROCK. Thanks for the catch would hate to have it all blow out and have 200gal of water on my floor

I'll call Savko tomorrow. I'm guessing since that all took 20' right now I'll need 30+feet of spa flex. Is this the nice really flexable stuff?

I guess I have a question. Would the bends (down especially) put extra train on the bulkheads or fittings compared to hard pipe?


Lunchbucket

 

[jnarowe]

Ok...listen up LB. The "really nice flexible stuff" is NOT PVC!! Do not buy it. Real flexible PVC is quite stiff, and as Marc points out, you can heat it up a bit to soften it, but the whole point is to have gradual curves anyway. That's what makes your flow more efficient. The really flexible stuff is a blend that does not glue up well with PVC fittings.

 

[RokleM]

No spa flex is super flexible, but the stuff from Savko is easy to work with. They also have the right cement too. They've always recommended Oakey standard clear primer and Weld-On PVC 795. I've used at least three large containers over the last couple years from there. I'm not sure their shipping situation with that, but worth asking. I use almost all spa-flex myself. When I setup my first tank, they walked me through the parts and how to do everything, never having experienced any plumbing in my life. I'm a customer forever, no doubt. Their ball valves and SCH80 bulkheads are OUTSTANDING in my opinion.

Yeah shoot me, I'm local too

A bit of it in use...

 

[jnarowe]

Hey Eric, don't argue with me, I ain't your wife! :lol:

I want to be very clear about this because there are two products on the market sold as "Spa-Flex" and one is PVC and one is not. I have purchased both, and one was by mistake from Custom. SAVKO does have the correct stuff, but it is not nearly as flexible as it's rubbery cousin.

The first two pics are of the imposter:

This stuff us significantly more flexible than true flexible PVC, and does not (I REPEAT) DOES NOT glue up to PVC fittings well. I have even used hybrid glues and still had trouble with it. I won't buy it again.

And here is a shot of flexible PVC, exactly like what you got from SAVKO:

If you look closely at the construction of it, the real stuff has bigger ridges and is not nearly as glossy. They feel very different.

So all I am trying to get across to you guys is that there is more than one "spa-flex" type product, and one does not work well with PVC cements. The true flexible PVC from SAVKO can be glued up with regular PVC cement with no trouble at all.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11654683#post11654683 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lunchbucket
Well guess I'm off to check out Marc's plumbing

You guys ROCK. Thanks for the catch would hate to have it all blow out and have 200gal of water on my floor

I'll call Savko tomorrow. I'm guessing since that all took 20' right now I'll need 30+feet of spa flex. Is this the nice really flexable stuff?

I guess I have a question. Would the bends (down especially) put extra train on the bulkheads or fittings compared to hard pipe?


Lunchbucket

Because the angled tank isn't a page on my site yet, here's a thread with pictures.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1166558&highlight=melev

 

[RokleM]

We posted at about the same time jnarowe. Didn't even see your post in order to argue w/ you You're wrong! Wait, what are we arguing about?

But yes, my stuff looks like 1/2 when not bent, more like picture 3 when bent. It's listed as "superflex" flexible spa use with appropriate primers, blah on the pipe itself. Good stuff. The 1/2" you can make 3" or so circles out of. The larger you get, the more difficult it gets. The 1 1/4 I have in the picture above, I had NO issues doing the 90 degree in the corner, but wouldn't necessarily recommend doing a 90 degree straight into a bulkhead. 3/4 and 1 are pretty easy to work with as well.

 

[jnarowe]

Mine is 1" which is fairly flexible, 1.5" which is moderately flexible, and 2" which is barely flexible.

The only reason why I bring it up is that I got the wrong stuff and it had very different gluing properties. Gave some to a buddy and his blew out when using on a slightly pressurized system. Once I figured it out, I only used what I got on the collection bucket line.

When I discussed it with Custom, they didn't even realize that they had the wrong stuff in stock. It looks so similar but we did confirm that is was indeed not flexible PVC.

 

[Lunchbucket]

jnarowe - THANKS MAN. Wasn't arguing you man. Just expressing my concerns..I don't want to get a lot of pressure on my bulkhead.

I think I am going ot use all the spaflex FROM SAVKO that I can but I'm going to use some fittings to make less pressure on the really tight 90's. I will never get it turned tight enough out of some of those areas.

The 1.5ft piece of 1.5" spaflex from Lowes is the ribbed stuff like you showed as the right stuff jnarowe. It is VERY hard to flex. I don't know if I can make it bend that tight w/out putting too much pressure on it out of the bulkheads

I posted wrongly above. All the plumbing that I did previously was done w/ 10ft of PVC. I think I could finish w/ 30ft or less.

Lunchbucket

 

[Lunchbucket]

jnarowe - THANKS MAN. Wasn't arguing you man. Just expressing my concerns..I don't want to get a lot of pressure on my bulkhead.

I think I am going ot use all the spaflex FROM SAVKO that I can but I'm going to use some fittings to make less pressure on the really tight 90's. I will never get it turned tight enough out of some of those areas.

The 1.5ft piece of 1.5" spaflex from Lowes is the ribbed stuff like you showed as the right stuff jnarowe. It is VERY hard to flex. I don't know if I can make it bend that tight w/out putting too much pressure on it out of the bulkheads

I posted wrongly above. All the plumbing that I did previously was done w/ 10ft of PVC. I think I could finish w/ 30ft or less.

Lunchbucket

 

[Elliott]

my next tank will have all spaflex, love the stuff, easier to install, better flow dynamics, less vibration/noise, just a little pricey

 

[jnarowe]

yeah, I don't think you can use all flex PVC because of the angles you need, but you might find a happy medium with 45's and the flex pipe. It takes careful planning and some experimentation to get it right, but the end result will be getting the most out of your flow pump.

But, because your runs are so short, I am not sure it is worth the hassle. I would definitely replace the sweeps you have with better quality PVC for sure, but the 1.5" flex PVC in a short run probably won't make that much difference in terms of vibration damping.

 

[Lunchbucket]

:lol: so the guy telling me to do it 100% is now thinking twice :lol: So do it or don't do it I'm just concerned about it flexing enough to make the turns that I have since it is so tight.

Lunchbucket

 

[Je®vis]

Wonderful progress... the piping works is very professional

 

[Hop]

Looks good though lunch! Nice to see the progress!

 

[jnarowe]

If you need to keep things tight to the tank like in the mock up, you won't be able to use 1.5" flex PVC without at least 45s. That 1.5" stuff is not going to dampen the vibration much either. It will some, but not a lot because it is so stiff. Like I said, it takes some experimentation, but with such short runs, it's not an easy decision. For me, my runs are very long, so it was easy to use the flex PVC no question. I try to use it wherever it will benefit flow as well as make the install easier.

 

[melev]

The nice thing about spaflex is that you can flex it. By adding a little extra length you can soften those turns. One thing you may need to consider is making something to support the weight of the pipes filled with water to avoid issues at the bulkheads.

 

[fade2black]

When I plumbed by OM 4 way I used the spaflex from savko and 45's. Made it VERY easy to plumb. If the runs are short there shouldn't be too much of an issue at the bulkheads. I haven't had any issue with mine in the 2 years it's been up.