Metal halide or led

[chrishayes]

You left out one of the biggest advantages of LEDs over MH and T5-that is heat put into the aquarium. Since the lights are not 30' above the water the the heat transfer from those ligth systems is considerable. since swithcing to LEDs from T5 and MH My room temp has dropped 4 deg and the tank a 6deg.
The energy saved in this manner is part of the equation factored into the initial cost of the LEDs.

Yes all the lighting for the marine industy has come from other sources, but leds can and are made in just about every available temperature. As far as high intensity LEds are concerned three watts per diode seem to be plenty. I dont know what intesity it would take to light a 50 sq ft section of space but most aquariums are less then 10 sq ft.

Sometimes industry needs to recoup their investment faster then a hobbiest, afterall we not catering to stockholders and a board. Therefore, the use of flourescent gives a quicker return on investment. It also doesnt matter that if the T5 lights over a warehouse lose 1/3 of thier intensity or shift color in 8 months. That is what LEDs are supposed to prevent. Will it work that way? I hope so. I can wait the 6 years it will take to recoup my investment. Thats why I got them.

You make a good point. But my point is that until COMMERCIAL use is in play, then the tech is not going to get progressed to the point of being reliable and inexpensive. I admire those that are blazing the path in their basements and garages but just like the computer, its gonna take an IBM AND Apple to realize the goals above. Without the deep pockets and competition prices dont get push down and technology doesnt get pushed up.

BTW, pointing a small fan at the water of a tank with a MH more than takes care of any heat issues for many smaller and mid-sized tanks.

Exactly, and this is much more common these days than in the past. I mean, we dont have 12 maxijets for in tank flow anymore along with homes having ac and efficient heating that doesnt blow right out the window cracks. THe lights are about all we have to cool these days. Ill be happy to knock that off too once LED or some other tech comes along jsut like the rest of us but until then a fan is all I need for a 250w halide.

So, it appears the question isnt so much will LEDs grow SPS, its one of will the LEDs manufactured now be able to compete with the reliability of MH and T5. If so many other applications can use LEDs (traffic lights to televisions) and get nearly flawless service from these items for tens of thousands of hours, why shouldnt the lights we buy today do the same?

It was stated by chrishays in an earlier post that most of the lighting components come from commercial applications ( I tend to agree). With that in mind shouldnt the systems we get rival the other commercial applications for longevity and reliability?

These ites that you speak of do have led degridation, its just happening so slowly that you dont notice it. In a life support role, the degradation is unacceptable and thats what is holding me from using them.

Nobodys questioning if led's work. There questioning that led's do not last there said 10 years of useable light. I've read numerous reefers using led's say they will get the initial investment back after 3 to 4 years of use. After 3 -4 years you have to replace each bulbs and possibly heat sinks to whatever. Where is the savings?

Bingo

 

[REEF SMAC]

So, it appears the question isnt so much will LEDs grow SPS, its one of will the LEDs manufactured now be able to compete with the reliability of MH and T5. If so many other applications can use LEDs (traffic lights to televisions) and get nearly flawless service from these items for tens of thousands of hours, why shouldnt the lights we buy today do the same?

You obviously spend a lot of time on that boat of yours if you haven't seen any traffic lights with burned out LEDs. Do a quick Google search of "LED traffic light failures" and you will find no shortage of reading about it.

LED's will last longer than any other lighting product if you implement them correctly. It's pretty safe to assume that if they fail before their projected time, it was human error or manufacturing defect that caused it.

Im not just saying this because i just drank the cool aid. It is a proven form of lighting. Anything that has an infinite shelf life is clearly going in the right direction for longevity.

Not sure where you are finding that "infinite shelf life". Meaning if you leave then on a shelf and not use them, they will last forever? So far there haven't been any municipalities that have figured out how to install LED traffic lights without failures. Many report that they are being replaced due to the degredation of the amount of light emitted. Not just bulb failure.
Sure LEDs are "a proven form of lighting", they do produce light. The 4 year old HPS bulbs outside in the parking lot are a proven form of lighting also. I'm sure if you had 3 year old MH or T5 bulbs over your tank they would still produce light, but how would your corals be doing?
Municipalities are reporting 5 years with LED traffic lights. (getting better all the time BTW) They are reporting that the power savings is still worth the initial installation costs even with the failure rates.
If those same LEDs will only grow corals for half of that 5 years, are they still worth it?
Maybe?

Are there any reef lighting LEDs out there that don't have all those "human errors" and "manufacturers defects" you are talking about?

Hopefully you drank the right cool aid and got the first one ever made.

The big question that is yet to be answered is the real world life of the LEDs. Will the really continue to fire, maintain high PAR levels and grow sps? This is the unknown question that everyone asks. Time will tell and the LED users will need to keep reporting their experience. As of now yes LEDs grown sps nicely in the short term, 1 year.

+1 exactly

 

[roberto_lopes]

Well, what can I say is that I'm very very satisfied with LEDs for more than 2 years. No significant loss of PAR (only 2-5 PAR in 2 years).

Great colors and growth,I can change the color temp in no time, it's cool (witch is good for me been here in Brazil where temps can get to 41 degrees on summer) and the energy savings is really significant.

To light my 350G SPS reef, if I don't use LEDs at least tree 400W MH plus T5 would be used. (more than 1300W)

Today I'm using 864W if LEDs (12 AI SOL BLUE fixtures).

I was excited about PLASMA fixtures and I ordered two Seashine fixtures that claim that can light more that 400W MH with only 300W and can last 50.000hours. but, my PAR measures prove that it's not true. The PAR measures is ridiculous even compared with 250W MH....so today it's lightning my from garden...

I believe that the BIGGEST issue today with leds it's the light distribution. The fact that I need too much fixtures to cover an area that 3 or 4 400W MH can cover is a problem. So the costs came from there, not from the LEDs itself.

regards

 

[Paul B]

As an electrician, I can assure all of you, LED's are the future for ALL lighting arenas.

I am also an electrician and agree with this. Soon LEDs will be the only lighting on the planet.

Seemed like some of the old timers were in denial about LED lighting. Now, I'm an old timer (52 years old),

I am an Older timer (62 years old) and I am not in denial. I ran MHs on my reef for about 15 years and then I built a LED fixture. I threw out the MH fixtures. My only regret is that I didn't keep the MH lights so I could throw them out again. To me there is no comparism. The LEDs are free compared to MH. I save $300.00 a year on bulbs and the LEDs use 108 watts compared to the 350 watts I used for MH. The LEDs are 25% brighter and dimmable. Better color because there are 2 color LEDs (on my tank)
This is the first summer in 40 years I didn't have to put ice in the tank to cool it and the LEDs take up so much less space.
So for this Old Timer, it is a no brainer.
And If for some reason I need to change the LEDs in a few years, in 2 hours I could change the 36 LEDs with no problem.

 

[Charley Diesing]

How about both!

 

[tegee]

I am also an electrician and agree with this. Soon LEDs will be the only lighting on the planet.



I am an Older timer (62 years old) and I am not in denial. I ran MHs on my reef for about 15 years and then I built a LED fixture. I threw out the MH fixtures. My only regret is that I didn't keep the MH lights so I could throw them out again. To me there is no comparism. The LEDs are free compared to MH. I save $300.00 a year on bulbs and the LEDs use 108 watts compared to the 350 watts I used for MH. The LEDs are 25% brighter and dimmable. Better color because there are 2 color LEDs (on my tank)
This is the first summer in 40 years I didn't have to put ice in the tank to cool it and the LEDs take up so much less space.
So for this Old Timer, it is a no brainer.
And If for some reason I need to change the LEDs in a few years, in 2 hours I could change the 36 LEDs with no problem.

What type of DIY fixture did you build? I am very interested in going DIY for many reasons.

Many thx in advance.....

 

[chrishayes]

Agreed, DIY is the only way to go currently that makes sense financially. Just like PaulB I could make a fixture in a few hours with little cash invested but I still chose MH due to the fact that a) I like the look of a radium bulb too much and b)I was able to purchase a brand new lumenmax2 and galaxy select a watt ballast for $165 and found a source for radium bulbs for only $65. I also have no heat issues just using a fan, winter and summer so the savings in electricity and bulb replacement is slim to none and I have a PROVEN performer for lighting. As I said, I did go LED for actinics and moonlighting and am quite happy with the combo. After running the LED's as actinic, I know that if I had only LED for main lighting the unnatural wierd glitter lines would bug me to no end. Its like a strobe light. Plus taking photos of the tank is near impossible with LEDS with my camera...

 

[Paul B]

Here is the fixture I built, it is 5' long and uses 36 LEDs half white and half blue.
The box in the center houses 2 small fans that suck air through the aluminum tubing cooling the thing to just above room temperature

The fixture is on a pully system with a counter weight and with one finger the entire fixture can be raised a foot, like it is here.

 

[Techno-Vicki]

Nobodys questioning if led's work. There questioning that led's do not last there said 10 years of useable light. I've read numerous reefers using led's say they will get the initial investment back after 3 to 4 years of use. After 3 -4 years you have to replace each bulbs and possibly heat sinks to whatever. Where is the savings?

Well...I have had my Solaris for over 4 years now, and have not had to replace any LEDs yet...however, I just did a DIY replacement for the ballast. Hope it continues to work. I was THRILLED that I did get the light back on. Thank you Reef Central for the threads on DIY PS!

I have worried a long time about having to go back to MH. I love the "no heat" issue. I used to run my electric bill a lot higher with a chiller. Also, replacement bulbs were a bear. I have not had a chiller in 4 years and no replacement bulb issue. The cost has paid for my light. I am hoping it goes for the next 6 years. I keep looking at new LED systems...just in case.

Please do not berate me for buying PFO...

It was a new company with a great idea, but with poor quality in some areas...ballasts and early LED installations specifically. I still love this light, even though I will have to continue to patch it together. Oh well...

 

[Techno-Vicki]

As for whether they still put out the same light output for SPS...I ended up putting my light at 100% without knowing it for a couple of days while I was dealing with my DIY PS. I usually only run at 70%. Ended up cooking my corals a bit...not happy campers, but I don't think I will lose any. So, after 4 years, yes, still full power on LED.

 

[JG1]

I'm not sold yet on LEDS. I still believe that MH colors up SPS the best with T5's equal to or just SLIGHTLY behind. I do like the aesthetics of LED light, it's very pleasing to the eye. I just haven't seen a LED tank produce the depth of colors on SPS like MH or T5.

Perhaps this is because of the LED fixtures are lacking in certain spectrums. Maybe with the new EcoTech fixture being more "full spectrum", this will change.