MP40 vs 6105 vs WP40

[nynick]

Ecotech Vortech.

Say NO to Chinese knockoff garbage.

Lets buy from honest reliable quality companies.

Not unoriginal copycat scammers.

Ecotech dictates prices to the retailers, if they go below the set out price they can no longer sell their products. Might not be illegal but not sure I would use the term honest either.... and quality...cough...

The only thing people seem to agree on is that their customer service is great. Why you would need that much service for a $600 powerhead is a mystery to me.

There are a number of wave-makers on the market, all of them have "taken inspiration" from eachother. The original wave maker was from Tunze if I remember right so by this logic you could argue that the Vortech is an "unoriginal copycat scammer".

 

[James77]

The original wave maker was from Tunze if I remember right so by this logic you could argue that the Vortech is an "unoriginal copycat scammer".

Yeah, but they at least made some pretty serious innovation by magnetically coupling the motor outside the tank.

 

[nynick]

The same could be said for the WP40. It gives the same water motion but runs quiet.

Please note that I am not arguing that the WP40 is a great or not a great product. I just think people are writing it off for the simple reason that it is Chinese.

 

[James77]

Yeah, but it is not a Vortech knock off. It is a Tunze knock off, and Tunze already had the noise thing down

I am not writing it off because it is Chinese. It is a blatant copy of Tunze 6105. People can argue against that all they wish, but it is silly thinking that it is not a direct copy. Just compare the two.

People think that this knock off brings competition, when all it does is harm companies and people that actually think up new ideas.

Jack said it very well:

People flock to cheapness with no thought about the big picture. It is what it is, and when there are no small upstart companies with an innovative idea left where will new products come from? If you personally thought up, designed, manufactured, spent a ton of money to market a product and someone in China copied all or part of that design and sold it for a lot less than you do, how would you feel? Would you want to continue to develop anything new, knowing that some dupe shop was going to copy it and undercut your price by a large amount. If this were you, would you say it is ok, no harm done? If you answer yes, then you are the problem, not the solution.

I truly do not care about people buying low priced equipment. Or cheap equipment. Or cheap Chinese crap. Or whatever. What I do care is that Tunze takes a hit on this one, and that will potentially affect them putting out more products. Why invest the effort, time, and money....all to have your idea ripped off. We all know a knock off when we see one. The least they could do is try and innovate something.

 

[nynick]

Tunze is a brilliant company, they have taken hits on everything they have ever made. They sell excellent quality for a reasonable price, they will be fine. Competition rarely weeds out great companies.

There are a lot of producers in this hobby selling overpriced garbage and they are sure to get nervous when you start getting products that are better then theirs and at a fraction of the price. Anyone remember when media reactors first came and how much they were? Today all these horrible "knock offs" has given us better reactors for 50 bucks. Competition drives development, it does not kill it.

The WP40 isn't a direct Tunze copy btw, even if they do look very similar. It seems to actually be better at water movement than the Tunze 6105...while it lasts. Not saying that it is bad quality but for sure it will not be as reliable.

 

[Jeremy B.]

Just thought I'd drop in a little history of the prop pump and it's beginnings in our hobby, which was not by Tunze. The old Reeftec pump from back around 2001 or so was the original, based off of a modified Little Giant PE series submersible pump and an RC boat impeller.

Reeftec was owned by Jimmy Chen who made the kit for you to put together, and he also eventually made an acrylic housing for the finished product to sit in, so the prop was not out in the open.

This idea started back in the mid to late 90's by other hobbyists, including Craig Bingman, who experienced utilizing prop style pumps in his reef during that time. Here is an article that explains a little more if anyone is interested:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/2002/6/review

Tunze then came out with their first prop pumps in mid 2003 if I'm not mistaken, which was the old brown plastic 6000.00 and 6100.00 controllable models with the 7094.00 Multicontroller. Ecotech Marine who had some partnership with IceCap when it was first getting off the ground as a company came out with the original MP20 pump sometime in late 2004 or early 2005 I believe. Hydor then followed up on releasing their version of the prop pump which started with the Koralia 1-4 models at an industry trade show in Florida in February 2006. The Koralia was the first mass marketed budget friendly prop pump that was a "ready to go" pump right out of the box from a manufacturer.

 

[bluereefs]

So tunze copy Jimmy Chen idea, patented him and now dont wont to anyone copy their idea?? Did I get this corectly??

As usual, most valuable inovations, informations and progress in this hobby come from reef keppers and reef comunity ... for free

 

[shifty51008]

No, tunze didnt copy his idea. They produced their own and made upgrades. Using a dc motor, can use with controller ect. They improve on items so it isnt copying

 

[fairladyZ]

There will always be "knock-offs" in everything in life, we see it everyday when we go to the store and you have Kraft Macaronni or generic macaronni, it's no different with these. It will continue to happen and always will happen and there is nothing wrong with it. I prefer it actually. You have a little diversity and options, I personally prefer a chinese cheap alternative. It seems like a quality product and has great flow, if there are enthusiasts that needs good flow but can't afford the others then more power to them the WP40 sounds like a great pump so far. If they want the brand name with the proven background and great customer service then hell ya grab a tunze. If you want all the bells and whistles and want to be on the innovation side then grab an MP40.

Just because someone buys one or the other doesn't matter, if it fits them and they are good with it then great, in the long run will these bring down prices of the others? maybe a little but does it matter? people will make up their mind based on THEIR wants and needs. Arguing about it because it's a knock-off will get nowhere cause it's in every industry in everyday life whether it's car parts, house materials, food, aquarium supplies. It's the nature of the beast.

I currently have Hydor's Good cheap pumps but i don't like the flow and am unhappy with them. So i'm in the market for one of the 3 in this thread, i was sold on the WP40 but i like the features of the mp40 and worried about noise, so maybe i'll meet in the middle and get a tunze, who knows!

 

[SimonSKL]

Back in the 70s and 80s when Japanese products came to the US market some people were saying the same thing about them being knockoffs. Today very few people would say that. In 2011 China graduated more engineers than any other countries in the world and almost half of the US post graduate engineers came from China and most of them went back to their home country to work. They do have the knowledge and resources to innovate. I agree many products are still copies but many are truly innovated or significantly improved over the original. I believe WP40 is one of those significantly improved.

 

[sirreal63]

I don't recall that being true about Japanese products, I was there, and it started in the 60's, by the 80's Japanese products were firmly entrenched into our society and more expensive than domestic offerings. People were worried about the influx of Japanese products and the impact on our manufacturing but quality was not the concern. Comparing an Admiral TV to a Sony, the Sony was a superior product. The Japanese products were also not greatly under priced, in many cases they were more expensive. This not the same thing as is happening today. Today people are more than happy with mediocrity and that is just a sad thing.

 

[flamron]

I believe WP40 is one of those significantly improved.

How?

What makes it significantly better than a current Tunze powerhead? They are nearly identical in build.

Please clarify exactly what makes the wp series better than Tunze. Price doesn't get to count, because cheapness is not an improvement.

 

[SimonSKL]

How?

What makes it significantly better than a current Tunze powerhead? They are nearly identical in build.

Please clarify exactly what makes the wp series better than Tunze. Price doesn't get to count, because cheapness is not an improvement.

I didn't say WP40 is better than Tunze. I simply said WP40 is significantly improved (ie. over many powerheads in the same price range).

 

[nynick]

it creates better water motion than the Tunze...probably will not last as long though with a price point like that.

 

[James77]

So tunze copy Jimmy Chen idea, patented him and now dont wont to anyone copy their idea?? Did I get this corectly??

Nope, you got it wrong. Looks like Tunze took an idea, made their own innovations on it, and brought it to market.

As usual, most valuable inovations, informations and progress in this hobby come from reef keppers and reef comunity ... for free

Where are the quality products coming from? Where are the products for mainstream users. We all remember the "maxi-stream mod"...you know, the Tunze killer? How is that doing?

 

[hobbzz]

I would have voted Tunze as I have purchased a 6095 and a 6105 in the past two months.

Jabao (sp?) does produce junk though. AFAIK they have literally never produced a quality product. That doesn't mean all Chinese products are junk though. I would venture a guess that a VAST majority of consumer products sold in America are made in China. We all know a lot are, but I'm thinking upwards of 50%. Yet most of these aren't cheap junk.

 

[geemanaz]

I would have voted Tunze as I have purchased a 6095 and a 6105 in the past two months.

Jabao (sp?) does produce junk though. AFAIK they have literally never produced a quality product. That doesn't mean all Chinese products are junk though. I would venture a guess that a VAST majority of consumer products sold in America are made in China. We all know a lot are, but I'm thinking upwards of 50%. Yet most of these aren't cheap junk.

Jebao company that making the WP40 been in the pound business for 15 yr and now they are getting in the Aquarium business.I do own a Jebao pound pump that is 10yr old and works good

 

[danil]

The same could be said for the WP40. It gives the same water motion but runs quiet.

Please note that I am not arguing that the WP40 is a great or not a great product. I just think people are writing it off for the simple reason that it is Chinese.

+1 I think a little competition won't hurt solid company with great innovation portfolio on domestic market.

 

[karsseboom]

Funny how the polls closed?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Funny how the polls closed?

I set it up to run for a month. I'll probably do it again in 6 months and a year just to compare.

And just to be fair and honest, a friend of mine who has bought a bulk lot of WP40's and is looking at a bulk lot of the WP25's was pressing Jebao about warranty issues. They told him point blank, you pay for them, we ship, they are yours and we don't what to hear about problems. And then they asked if he wanted them private labeled with his company logo? :headwally:

As far as customer service goes, it's completely up to the distributor. And I think that really is a crappy atittude for Jebao to have, but then they are selling what appear so far to be pretty good pumps for 30% of what Tunze wants. And I think $200+ for customer service is a bit over priced.