My 120 filled mostly with SPS

[Ink]

Hello Jordan. Your tank is stunning and animals are really fantastic.
After having read all the thread, many points take my attention and I can't find an explanation.

I own a 120 gal net volume tank, 52x28x22" (LxWxH), SPS dominant. It's a bare bottom tank, with 70kg LR. My light is 10 54w ATI fixture, run for 11 hours with all tubes on, no dusk/dawn. Tubes are 8 aquablue special and 2 blueplus.
I 've less fishes (1 lineatus tang, 3 kauderni, 2 clown fish, 1 salarias, 1 cryptocentrus, 1 tomentosus, 1 gobiodon).
I use neither GFO, nor biopellet, nor liquid carbon source. I've a small quantity of activated carbon passively in sump and the skimmer only.
Tank is 4 years old. Ca-alk has been mainly provided by a calcium reactor, that is actually present. In the past I've been using balling method for 6 months, that shouldn't differs from yours BRS solutions.
The most curious fact is the daily added dose. Your corals have had a fantastic growth rate, but this is in complete contrast with my dose. I've been adding 450ml/day against your 75ml/day (my alk solution was near saturation limit, so can't be less concentrated than yours). That's quite impressive. A friend of mine has a set-up similar to me, and his alk-ca consumption is in line with mine. Whole management is also same to me. Daily alk added resulted 2,8° kh/l (1 meq/l); at that time I used more blue light.
I can't believe 90% of my alk-ca was used by something different than corals... by the way I've never experienced the fast grow You report with at least some corals (I think firstly abuout your prostrata). Actually, with ca-rx and more with ligh (8 ABS, 2 b+), my calculated consumption is even much higher: 3,5°kh/l/day (1,25meq/l/d).

To me is also incredible the totally different light management: in my case 11 hours of full white light, against your 12 hours with low power only blue light and only 5 hours with full spectrum.

My NO3 and PO4 have always been not measurable and I think in this tank life I've had various times issues deriving from too low nutrients, probably due to overskimming and strong light.

In conclusion, your set-up make me wonder if I would make better with more blue light at less power, but I can't explain the enormous difference in ca-alk consumption.

Thanks.

Luca

 

[mpierce]

I wouldn't really consider 48 RB LEDs exactly "low power". On a different note your alk consumption is super high... 450mL a day, wow.

 

[mpierce]

I know it was over a year ago, but how did the Red Bug treatment turn out? Did you just do one dose of interceptor? (my apologies if I missed it in another post). I just treated for RB yesterday. Some dead hermits for sure but my cleaner shrimp seem to be hanging on. Water change and carbon running now so hopefully the fatalities are over. I have a half of the large pill left so was thinking about a second dose next week.

 

[dvanacker]

The amount of lighting needed will depend on a lt of varibles. How high the light is mounted, or actual par levels, time and intensity plus IMO the amount of nutrients or food available to the corals. Having said that 11hrs of a full daylight period is usually overkill in most SPS systems.

450ml/day of alk is a crazy amount for a 120g. Perhaps its a weaker concentration.

 

[dvanacker]

I know it was over a year ago, but how did the Red Bug treatment turn out? Did you just do one dose of interceptor? (my apologies if I missed it in another post). I just treated for RB yesterday. Some dead hermits for sure but my cleaner shrimp seem to be hanging on. Water change and carbon running now so hopefully the fatalities are over. I have a half of the large pill left so was thinking about a second dose next week.

definitely do more than 1 treatment.

 

[flyingclay]

For comparison here is a FTS from July 2011.

Wow amazing growth. What is your secret?

 

[Ink]

Dvanacker, alk-solution was near saturation as I said above: 84g NaHCO3 anhydrous per liter. And as I said above I'm not the only one with such an experience. Moreover I stress the fact that when I've used more white light (8 ABS, 2B+) with Ca-Rx, I had 3,5°kh/d, that would equal to about 540ml/d of alk-solution.

11h full light maybe too much, but it depends on many factors, as You said. In detail, my fixture was 4" over water. PPFD in center tank (center from front, from side and from surface) was 470mcmol/s/m2 (apogee for sun light).

Tank in the link, for instance, have always used 11h full light plus 1h only T5. In my opinion is the best tank ever seen. I talked to its owner many times, in his actual tank He uses 12h full light and believes it is a need for a tank. I'm not saying it's correct, but only reporting a fact.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/55-tank-of-the-month

Luca

 

[dvanacker]

Dvanacker, alk-solution was near saturation as I said above: 84g NaHCO3 anhydrous per liter. And as I said above I'm not the only one with such an experience. Moreover I stress the fact that when I've used more white light (8 ABS, 2B+) with Ca-Rx, I had 3,5°kh/d, that would equal to about 540ml/d of alk-solution.

11h full light maybe too much, but it depends on many factors, as You said. In detail, my fixture was 4" over water. PPFD in center tank (center from front, from side and from surface) was 470mcmol/s/m2 (apogee for sun light).

Tank in the link, for instance, have always used 11h full light plus 1h only T5. In my opinion is the best tank ever seen. I talked to its owner many times, in his actual tank He uses 12h full light and believes it is a need for a tank. I'm not saying it's correct, but only reporting a fact.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/55-tank-of-the-month

Luca

All I can give you is the information I get from research and my personal experience. Every tank can be different but generally most successful SPS reef tanks will not need 11hrs of full lighting and nor do they generally need 3.5dkh/day. Your in the minority with these parameters.

 

[Ink]

Darryl, always simply reporting a fact, not with the intent to demonstrate something: here in Italy, It's normality. That's what is usually adviced on the most popular italian reefing forum. Usually it is adviced to light at least for 10h. Ca-alk consumption is meanly that, because I asked some people to measure their consumption and is in line with mine.

What I can say is I've come to conclusion that corals need optimal water quality to grow and presence of "some" nutrients. If water chemistry isn't ok, corals won't grow. More light means more growth but also much more nutrients consumption. Less light means less nutrients consumption and slower metabolism, so that changes are more gradual.
Someone uses to raise the fixture to reduce light power, but mantain a long light time.
The smaller light time I've seen on a beatiful SPS tank was a friend's of mine, who used a plusrite 400w 14000°K on icecap ballast in a lumenarc reflector really near water surface, for a duration of 8h, tank 90x60x60cm.

 

[dvanacker]

I have read about tanks in Italy using human growth hormone as well which no one in North America has tried to my knowledge. Also I have read (although this was years ago) that a dkh of 15 or 16 was recommended in Italy. I can tell you these things are not the norm on this forum. If you would go through the tank of the months on reefkeeping you would see the majority keeping full lighting on for less than 10hrs and dkh below 9. I'm not saying this is the best way to do things but it is the way most do it around here (successfully).

 

[Ink]

Darryl, I read this forum from time to time since 2002, but I well know all TOTM: I've read deeply about all tanks with good results.
What You report about Italian uses are very old data, no more in use. Now almost everything accords to american uses.

About light duration, in my memory I find lot of TOTM with at least 9h full light:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-03/totm/index.php
this is just an example that I guess You should know well and that I've studied deeply (perfectly according to italian light style, at least about duration, lessen about MH bulb).
So It's hard to say that what You and Jordan do is the most common way (I mean only 5h of full light).
All I write is really always to understand more about this fantastic world. I don't want to be neither appear argumentative.

Now I go sleeping. Tomorrow I'll work from 8 to 20... Good night.

 

[dvanacker]

I said less than 10hrs of full lighting. Personally im using 8hrs full lighting and 13hrs running my actinic period. When i put neW MH bulbs in I have to reduce that to 6hrs or the colours will lighten up.

I agree though 5hrs does seem low but what ever works. Similarly if your 11hrs full lightimg is workig for you who am I to say that is wrong. I was just saying what seems to be the norm around here and i woud say 11hrs is a little higher and 5hrs is a little lower. Good thing Im runnimg in the middle.

 

[dvanacker]

I said less than 10hrs of full lighting. Personally im using 8hrs full lighting and 13hrs running my actinic period. When i put neW MH bulbs in I have to reduce that to 6hrs or the colours will lighten up.

I agree though 5hrs does seem low but what ever works. Similarly if your 11hrs full lightimg is workig for you who am I to say that is wrong. I was just saying what seems to be the norm around here and i woud say 11hrs is a little higher and 5hrs is a little lower. Good thing Im runnimg in the middle.

just a correction, im actually at 9hrs full lighting but my bulbs are over a year old now and old MH bulbs can drop as much as 40% less light than new ones.

 

[Ink]

Hallo Darryl,
As You said, every tank has to find its own equilibrium. This is a balance between import and export, which in my opinion are made of:
import: fish and all the organic matter added
export: light, skimmer, bacteria (I mean stimulated by carbon source, if added).
Maybe You started your tank with 6h full light and adapted fish population and their food to export capacity of your tank setup.+
I've started directly with 11h full light and added fish as needed. If now I would reduce light period, maybe I would risk an increase of nutrients and need altarnative ways to control them, such like carbon source.
BTW probably more light means more fast metabolism and more calcification, but not necessarily better corals, because results from You and Jordan are a good example of what can be achieved with less light.

 

[jroovers]

Your tank continues to be an inspiration to me (we must not quite have the same water in Ottawa as you guys do in Toronto:hmm3. Can you share what you have your 6105s set at these days - including jumper voltage if you don't mind.

Ottawa is close enough! Thanks for your comment. Currently I'm running the 18V jumpers, and the powerbeads on the setting that allows you to alternate flow between the 2 (interval mode I think) - one is 40% to 100%, the other is 40% to 70%, and the interval is 8 seconds. So one ramps up to 100% for 8 seconds while the other is at 40%, then the other goes to 70% while the other is at 40% for 8 seconds, and so forth. I also am using night mode, with the powerbeads going to a steady 70% when the lights go out and the moon light is on. Hopefully this answers your question!

Hello Jordan. Your tank is stunning and animals are really fantastic.
After having read all the thread, many points take my attention and I can't find an explanation.

I own a 120 gal net volume tank, 52x28x22" (LxWxH), SPS dominant. It's a bare bottom tank, with 70kg LR. My light is 10 54w ATI fixture, run for 11 hours with all tubes on, no dusk/dawn. Tubes are 8 aquablue special and 2 blueplus.
I 've less fishes (1 lineatus tang, 3 kauderni, 2 clown fish, 1 salarias, 1 cryptocentrus, 1 tomentosus, 1 gobiodon).
I use neither GFO, nor biopellet, nor liquid carbon source. I've a small quantity of activated carbon passively in sump and the skimmer only.
Tank is 4 years old. Ca-alk has been mainly provided by a calcium reactor, that is actually present. In the past I've been using balling method for 6 months, that shouldn't differs from yours BRS solutions.
The most curious fact is the daily added dose. Your corals have had a fantastic growth rate, but this is in complete contrast with my dose. I've been adding 450ml/day against your 75ml/day (my alk solution was near saturation limit, so can't be less concentrated than yours). That's quite impressive. A friend of mine has a set-up similar to me, and his alk-ca consumption is in line with mine. Whole management is also same to me. Daily alk added resulted 2,8° kh/l (1 meq/l); at that time I used more blue light.
I can't believe 90% of my alk-ca was used by something different than corals... by the way I've never experienced the fast grow You report with at least some corals (I think firstly abuout your prostrata). Actually, with ca-rx and more with ligh (8 ABS, 2 b+), my calculated consumption is even much higher: 3,5°kh/l/day (1,25meq/l/d).

To me is also incredible the totally different light management: in my case 11 hours of full white light, against your 12 hours with low power only blue light and only 5 hours with full spectrum.

My NO3 and PO4 have always been not measurable and I think in this tank life I've had various times issues deriving from too low nutrients, probably due to overskimming and strong light.

In conclusion, your set-up make me wonder if I would make better with more blue light at less power, but I can't explain the enormous difference in ca-alk consumption.

Thanks.

Luca

Luca, thanks for your comments. In terms of alk and light, I'm at a loss for an explanation. I can tell you that over time, my consumption of Alk and Ca has steady increased, but currently I'm in the 85 to 80 ml per day range which keeps my alk pretty steady near 8 dkh and my Ca near 400 (I try and keep it at 420, but it always slowly decreases ppm wise and I bump it up every so often).

My cree LEDs do kick out quite a bit of light. The T5s seem fine where they are, haven't seen a need to increase them. I may try it out though to see if I notice anything different growth and colour wise.

I know it was over a year ago, but how did the Red Bug treatment turn out? Did you just do one dose of interceptor? (my apologies if I missed it in another post). I just treated for RB yesterday. Some dead hermits for sure but my cleaner shrimp seem to be hanging on. Water change and carbon running now so hopefully the fatalities are over. I have a half of the large pill left so was thinking about a second dose next week.

Worked out fine, I did just the two doses, lost my cleaner shrimp the second time around.

Wow amazing growth. What is your secret?

Nothing special, if anything I've tried to simplify my approach. Just feed fish twice daily, and try and keep alk and ca steady, and water changes once weekly. The more and more I tinker the more problems I seem to have!

 

[biggles]

The more and more I tinker the more problems I seem to have!

But that won't stop you giving in to your SPS keeping tinker urges eventually......... those with partners can stop it easily, just add up the real amount you spent on reefing in 2013 - the REAL amount, inform your partner and simply sit back and relax as he or she takes total control of the reef budget on your behalf.......... i've never tried it myself for obvious tinkery reasons

I find I need to have some small amount of nutrient in there for the coral, which also is conducive to some growth of problem algae. The price one has to pay I guess to have nice coral colours. HTH.

Couldn't agree more mate, i've always found that the best colors are right on the edge of algae becoming an eyesore rather than a nutrient indicator in the display. Having the right size and type of snails is a big help especially with tightly placed acros as i find the larger ones can't get to spots the more your corals grow.

Those latest pics are simply stunning, i always enjoy seeing the amazing clarity and color vibrancy you capture in your shots mate. Hope the acros pop your tank seams in 2014. :beer:

 

[Jettareefer]

Jroovers what's your secret behind your beautiful milleporas ?

 

[westreef]

Happy New Year, Jordan!
May your corals be happy and love you in 2014 !!:celeb1:

 

[jroovers]

Darryl, always simply reporting a fact, not with the intent to demonstrate something: here in Italy, It's normality. That's what is usually adviced on the most popular italian reefing forum. Usually it is adviced to light at least for 10h. Ca-alk consumption is meanly that, because I asked some people to measure their consumption and is in line with mine.

What I can say is I've come to conclusion that corals need optimal water quality to grow and presence of "some" nutrients. If water chemistry isn't ok, corals won't grow. More light means more growth but also much more nutrients consumption. Less light means less nutrients consumption and slower metabolism, so that changes are more gradual.
Someone uses to raise the fixture to reduce light power, but mantain a long light time.
The smaller light time I've seen on a beatiful SPS tank was a friend's of mine, who used a plusrite 400w 14000°K on icecap ballast in a lumenarc reflector really near water surface, for a duration of 8h, tank 90x60x60cm.

I would agree with you here in terms of having some nutrients, as Biggles has noted too. In terms of lighting, I think most corals are pretty adaptable. The difference between 5 hours and 9 hours of full lighting may not be that big, but who knows, difficult for me to say.

 

[jroovers]

But that won't stop you giving in to your SPS keeping tinker urges eventually......... those with partners can stop it easily, just add up the real amount you spent on reefing in 2013 - the REAL amount, inform your partner and simply sit back and relax as he or she takes total control of the reef budget on your behalf.......... i've never tried it myself for obvious tinkery reasons



Couldn't agree more mate, i've always found that the best colors are right on the edge of algae becoming an eyesore rather than a nutrient indicator in the display. Having the right size and type of snails is a big help especially with tightly placed acros as i find the larger ones can't get to spots the more your corals grow.

Those latest pics are simply stunning, i always enjoy seeing the amazing clarity and color vibrancy you capture in your shots mate. Hope the acros pop your tank seams in 2014. :beer:

Cheers, all the best to you as well! How many snails do you have, and what type? I haven't had any for a long time, find they just knock things over and are more trouble than they are worth.

Jroovers what's your secret behind your beautiful milleporas ?

No idea, I don't do anything special, I think they are just fast growers. I really only have the prostrata and the palmer's blue and the sunset, all are fast growers compared to other acros in my experience.

Happy New Year, Jordan!
May your corals be happy and love you in 2014 !!:celeb1:

Thanks Bernie, all the best to you and your system as well!