My 240g FOWLR

E.intheC said:
Any updates?
Click to expand...

Tons! Thanks for asking, but you may regret it :)

2018 and 2019 were rough years for me, and therefore for the tank as well. Between work being insane, and some personal medical issues, I admit to a pretty severe amount of neglect towards the tank. Maybe 2 water changes total in that time, and basically throwing in some pellets once a day (at best) for food. I'll break down the issues using the last complete stock list from 01/07/2018.

Acanthurus leucosternon "“ removed. He became an aggressive biter.
Labroides dimidiatus
Halichoeres hortulanus - jumped
Genicanthus lamarck X2, the small female injured her eye and died. Interestingly the male recently injured his eye as well, but seems fine with only one.
Holacanthus tricolor
Centropyge loricula "“ died
Chaetodon auriga "“ removed. As I feared, became a butterfly bully
Chaetodon burgessi "“ with no other roaops in the tank, there was no longer any aggression
Chaetodon collare - killed by PBT
Chaetodon ephippium
Chaetodon falcula "“ killed by PBT
Chaetodon mertensii
Chaetodon rainfordi - died
Chaetodon xanthurus "“ died due to not eating pellets, so likely starvation
Microcanthus strigatus X2 - Larger/older one died/wasted away
Chrysiptera hemicyanea - disappeared
Chrysiptera talboti x 2 "“ one disappeared
Pseudochromis sankeyi - disappeared

One thing I think I did was accidentally feed the fish spoiled raw minced shrimp kept in the fridge too long. After feeding, the following fish all stopped eating within a day or two, and died within 7 days. This is just a theory. There was nothing physically wrong with them when they died. Just dead. They were arguably some of the biggest consumers of food in the tank.
Acanthurus fowleri
Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis
Pomacanthus maculosus
Chaetodon fasciatus (also didn't eat pellets, so there's that too)

2020 has been a bit of a resurrection for the tank, and myself. At the end of 2019 I left my job of almost 20 years. Amazingly, all my medical issues apparently stayed with the job :) While I had only planned to take a few months off, a certain pandemic hit, and I ended up taking all 2020 off.
Changes to the tank itself at the start of 2020: I did a major deep clean of the neglected tank. The 2nd fuge with just LR had like 7" of detritus in it. The rest of the filter/sump wasn't much better. So I first did a major water change where all I did was clean the sump/fuges. I completely removed the LR from the 2nd fuge. Next, I deep cleaned the display LR and internal overflow. I set up a temporary second return pump, a strong one, to maximize flow from the tank to the sump. With a dozen pairs of clean filter socks ready, I started using a MJ1200 to blow clean every nook and cranny of the rock in the tank. You can imagine what a **** storm that was. Filter socks clogged quickly, and were replaced as needed. To clean the inside of the overflow, first I used a long brush throughout. Then I pumped water directly from the sump into the overflow, bypassing the actual tank. Again, multiple socks filled up. And of course, a good size 120g water change was finally done on the system, during which I gravel vacuumed ALL the sand. Again, nothing but grossness to be found LOL.

Not sure if I already said in this thread, but after the SWC300 skimmer pump died, I replaced the entire skimmer with a Reef Octopus Regal 250INT 10" Internal Protein Skimmer (VarioS). I LOVE how quiet the DC pump is, so I also replaced my return pump with a Current Eflux DC pump.

I moved my Neptune AC Jr. from the reef (finally sold that tank too after sitting empty in my living room for years). It basically functions as a glorified light timer.

Lights: The tank originally had 2 x Blue PLUS and 2 x Fiji Purple T5. I added four 4ft TrueLumen Pro strips (2 x daylight, 2 x diamond white) just because I had them laying around for some reason. I also then added some 5050 LED accent lighting (the 5 meter strip rolls you can get from Amazon) 2 x 8ft red, 4 x 8ft violet. There are also 3 smaller LED units used for minor dusk/dawn/moonlight effect. With all these options, and the AC Jr. I can create/simulate all sorts of times of day. At no point during the day are all the lights on, however.

After the tank settled down, I began to restock. Still always using my QT "“ cupramine, prazi, nitrofuracin green powder, and other meds as needed. I also did metro in food in the main display after most additions were done. Here's the stock list.

First the old timers:

Labroides dimidiatus "“ go figure that one out
Genicanthus lamarck "“ big male
Holacanthus tricolor
Chaetodon burgessi
Chaetodon ephippium
Chaetodon mertensii
Microcanthus strigatus
Chrysiptera talboti

New additions:

Chaetodon lunula x 2
Chaetodon vagabundus x 2
Chaetodon semilarvatus
Chaetodon kleini x 2 "“ Likely to remove one or both. Long story here; see below.
Chaetodon rafflesii "“ current being terrorized by the small vagabundus; very weird. Needs to be removed.
Chaetodon ulietensis "“ I eventually want a falcula (haven't been available). If they get along, great, if not, out comes the ulietensis.
Hemitaurichthys polylepis x 3
Forcipiger flavissimus
Apolemichthys trimaculatus
Apolemichthys xanthurus "“ likely to be removed. Sorry, just unattractive as he ages.
Pomacanthus navarchus "“ likely to be removed since the Emp doesn't care for him.
Pomacanthus imperator "“ his aggression level will determine if he stays long term.
Halichoeres chrysus x 2
Halichoeres melanurus
Pomacentrus alleni
Pomacentrus coelestis
Chrysiptera parasema
Ctenochaetus tominiensis
Ctenochaetus strigosus
Ctenochaetus cyanocheilus
Centropyge bispinosa
Genicanthus lamark "“ small female added
Amphiprion occelaris "œgladiator" x 2 "“ still growing out in the fuge.
Holacanthus ciliaris "“ still growing out in the fuge. I just always wanted one; not sure what her fate will be.
Zebrasoma xanthurum "“ tiny; still growing out in the fuge. Unclear if he'll be put in the main display as my experience with yellow tangs with butterflies was horrible. Also, those bristletooths are feisty.

Regarding the Klein's, don't believe everything you read online. I tried every which way to keep a group"¦. It never worked more than a few months. And man, they get MEAN to each other. Even the two I have left, I don't think they like each other"¦. It's not outright aggression, but it's not harmonious coupling as far as I can tell, either. I will likely catch and remove at least one. Maybe both. They are just such nervous/spazzy fish"¦ I hate the way they are always freaking out all the other fish with their movements.

QT has the following:

Chaetodon xanthurus
Centropyge bispinosa "“ tiny
Ecsenius midas
Salarias ramosus

I think that's it :D
 
Last edited:
E.intheC said:
Hey Peter, would you mind taking a few minutes to detail your QT process? I
Click to expand...

Sure. Nothing too special. It's a 15g "long" tank. Two Aquaclear hang-on filters, each with two foam blocks, allowing cleaning and changing of the foam to be done alternately without disturbing the biological filtration. I use cupramine at ~0.4 mg/L, dosed over 5 days or so. After making sure they eat well, I will do 2 rounds of Prazi according to label instructions. Water changes can range from every few days to once a week or so, depending on how messy the fish are. Usually fish stay in there for about 6 weeks.
 
Hi

Hi

Beautiful tank and amazing job raising some tough species. Would love to hear about your quarantine process. Do you treat prophylactically with copper on all fish? I do, along with praziquantel and furan 2. Included some pictures of my 100 gallon qt.
 
SDguy said:
Tons! Thanks for asking, but you may regret it :)

2018 and 2019 were rough years for me, and therefore for the tank as well. Between work being insane, and some personal medical issues, I admit to a pretty severe amount of neglect towards the tank. Maybe 2 water changes total in that time, and basically throwing in some pellets once a day (at best) for food. I'll break down the issues using the last complete stock list from 01/07/2018.

Acanthurus leucosternon "“ removed. He became an aggressive biter.
Labroides dimidiatus
Halichoeres hortulanus - jumped
Genicanthus lamarck X2, the small female injured her eye and died. Interestingly the male recently injured his eye as well, but seems fine with only one.
Holacanthus tricolor
Centropyge loricula "“ died
Chaetodon auriga "“ removed. As I feared, became a butterfly bully
Chaetodon burgessi "“ with no other roaops in the tank, there was no longer any aggression
Chaetodon collare - killed by PBT
Chaetodon ephippium
Chaetodon falcula "“ killed by PBT
Chaetodon mertensii
Chaetodon rainfordi - died
Chaetodon xanthurus "“ died due to not eating pellets, so likely starvation
Microcanthus strigatus X2 - Larger/older one died/wasted away
Chrysiptera hemicyanea - disappeared
Chrysiptera talboti x 2 "“ one disappeared
Pseudochromis sankeyi - disappeared

One thing I think I did was accidentally feed the fish spoiled raw minced shrimp kept in the fridge too long. After feeding, the following fish all stopped eating within a day or two, and died within 7 days. This is just a theory. There was nothing physically wrong with them when they died. Just dead. They were arguably some of the biggest consumers of food in the tank.
Acanthurus fowleri
Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis
Pomacanthus maculosus
Chaetodon fasciatus (also didn't eat pellets, so there's that too)

2020 has been a bit of a resurrection for the tank, and myself. At the end of 2019 I left my job of almost 20 years. Amazingly, all my medical issues apparently stayed with the job :) While I had only planned to take a few months off, a certain pandemic hit, and I ended up taking all 2020 off.
Changes to the tank itself at the start of 2020: I did a major deep clean of the neglected tank. The 2nd fuge with just LR had like 7" of detritus in it. The rest of the filter/sump wasn't much better. So I first did a major water change where all I did was clean the sump/fuges. I completely removed the LR from the 2nd fuge. Next, I deep cleaned the display LR and internal overflow. I set up a temporary second return pump, a strong one, to maximize flow from the tank to the sump. With a dozen pairs of clean filter socks ready, I started using a MJ1200 to blow clean every nook and cranny of the rock in the tank. You can imagine what a **** storm that was. Filter socks clogged quickly, and were replaced as needed. To clean the inside of the overflow, first I used a long brush throughout. Then I pumped water directly from the sump into the overflow, bypassing the actual tank. Again, multiple socks filled up. And of course, a good size 120g water change was finally done on the system, during which I gravel vacuumed ALL the sand. Again, nothing but grossness to be found LOL.

Not sure if I already said in this thread, but after the SWC300 skimmer pump died, I replaced the entire skimmer with a Reef Octopus Regal 250INT 10" Internal Protein Skimmer (VarioS). I LOVE how quiet the DC pump is, so I also replaced my return pump with a Current Eflux DC pump.

I moved my Neptune AC Jr. from the reef (finally sold that tank too after sitting empty in my living room for years). It basically functions as a glorified light timer.

Lights: The tank originally had 2 x Blue PLUS and 2 x Fiji Purple T5. I added four 4ft TrueLumen Pro strips (2 x daylight, 2 x diamond white) just because I had them laying around for some reason. I also then added some 5050 LED accent lighting (the 5 meter strip rolls you can get from Amazon) 2 x 8ft red, 4 x 8ft violet. There are also 3 smaller LED units used for minor dusk/dawn/moonlight effect. With all these options, and the AC Jr. I can create/simulate all sorts of times of day. At no point during the day are all the lights on, however.

After the tank settled down, I began to restock. Still always using my QT "“ cupramine, prazi, nitrofuracin green powder, and other meds as needed. I also did metro in food in the main display after most additions were done. Here's the stock list.

First the old timers:

Labroides dimidiatus "“ go figure that one out
Genicanthus lamarck "“ big male
Holacanthus tricolor
Chaetodon burgessi
Chaetodon ephippium
Chaetodon mertensii
Microcanthus strigatus
Chrysiptera talboti

New additions:

Chaetodon lunula x 2
Chaetodon vagabundus x 2
Chaetodon semilarvatus
Chaetodon kleini x 2 "“ Likely to remove one or both. Long story here; see below.
Chaetodon rafflesii "“ current being terrorized by the small vagabundus; very weird. Needs to be removed.
Chaetodon ulietensis "“ I eventually want a falcula (haven't been available). If they get along, great, if not, out comes the ulietensis.
Hemitaurichthys polylepis x 3
Forcipiger flavissimus
Apolemichthys trimaculatus
Apolemichthys xanthurus "“ likely to be removed. Sorry, just unattractive as he ages.
Pomacanthus navarchus "“ likely to be removed since the Emp doesn't care for him.
Pomacanthus imperator "“ his aggression level will determine if he stays long term.
Halichoeres chrysus x 2
Halichoeres melanurus
Pomacentrus alleni
Pomacentrus coelestis
Chrysiptera parasema
Ctenochaetus tominiensis
Ctenochaetus strigosus
Ctenochaetus cyanocheilus
Centropyge bispinosa
Genicanthus lamark "“ small female added
Amphiprion occelaris "œgladiator" x 2 "“ still growing out in the fuge.
Holacanthus ciliaris "“ still growing out in the fuge. I just always wanted one; not sure what her fate will be.
Zebrasoma xanthurum "“ tiny; still growing out in the fuge. Unclear if he'll be put in the main display as my experience with yellow tangs with butterflies was horrible. Also, those bristletooths are feisty.

Regarding the Klein's, don't believe everything you read online. I tried every which way to keep a group"¦. It never worked more than a few months. And man, they get MEAN to each other. Even the two I have left, I don't think they like each other"¦. It's not outright aggression, but it's not harmonious coupling as far as I can tell, either. I will likely catch and remove at least one. Maybe both. They are just such nervous/spazzy fish"¦ I hate the way they are always freaking out all the other fish with their movements.

QT has the following:

Chaetodon xanthurus
Centropyge bispinosa "“ tiny
Ecsenius midas
Salarias ramosus

I think that's it :D
Click to expand...
Hi Peter, it's nice to have updates on this amazing FOWLR. As with Matt's thread, it took many days to read it in full but it was worth it, and I have to say that it is a shame to see how the fish that you had since childhood were dying over time; fowleri, Mac and that group of Chaetodontoplus It was spectacular and it's really sad to know that they are no longer exhibited in your tank, on the other hand I'm glad to know that you recovered satisfactorily from your health problems, that is the main thing. I learned a lot from this thread and also from Matt, I'm gathering information to refill my 79G tank, so I wish you success with your fish, and give us photos when you can :thumbsup: .
 
SDguy said:
Sure. Nothing too special. It's a 15g "long" tank. Two Aquaclear hang-on filters, each with two foam blocks, allowing cleaning and changing of the foam to be done alternately without disturbing the biological filtration. I use cupramine at ~0.4 mg/L, dosed over 5 days or so. After making sure they eat well, I will do 2 rounds of Prazi according to label instructions. Water changes can range from every few days to once a week or so, depending on how messy the fish are. Usually fish stay in there for about 6 weeks.
Click to expand...

Hey Peter, good to see your post.

Just for clarities sake on the cupramine, you target a dose of 0.4 mg/l and take 5 days to get to that concentration.

Then you hold at that concentration for six weeks.

Am I correct on that? Also, important to note that any water changes would affect the concentration in the tank, so new water would need to be dosed at the tanks concentration as well.

My tank has gone through much of the same cycle of neglect
That yours went through. I'm sad to say I'm still not really out of it, I hope to be soon though.
 
Fiish said:
Hi Peter, it's nice to have updates on this amazing FOWLR. As with Matt's thread, it took many days to read it in full but it was worth it, and I have to say that it is a shame to see how the fish that you had since childhood were dying over time; fowleri, Mac and that group of Chaetodontoplus It was spectacular and it's really sad to know that they are no longer exhibited in your tank, on the other hand I'm glad to know that you recovered satisfactorily from your health problems, that is the main thing. I learned a lot from this thread and also from Matt, I'm gathering information to refill my 79G tank, so I wish you success with your fish, and give us photos when you can :thumbsup: .
Click to expand...

Thank you!

caribfan said:
Hey Peter, good to see your post.

Just for clarities sake on the cupramine, you target a dose of 0.4 mg/l and take 5 days to get to that concentration.

Then you hold at that concentration for six weeks.

Am I correct on that? Also, important to note that any water changes would affect the concentration in the tank, so new water would need to be dosed at the tanks concentration as well.

My tank has gone through much of the same cycle of neglect
That yours went through. I'm sad to say I'm still not really out of it, I hope to be soon though.
Click to expand...

Everything you said is correct, except I don't go past 4 weeks with the copper. The extended QT is usually just to make sure the new fish are eating aggressively, so they compete in the main display.
 
Fiish said:
I'm in Mexico, but I always check LADD, I think that before the pandemic the prices were somewhat similar. Man if only I could buy fish from that section.
Click to expand...

You are correct, actually. Most Prognathodes species have always been pricey!
 
caribfan said:
Good ol' pandemic pricing. Seems like there is a probably a joke to be made about quarantining fish.
Click to expand...

I've made that joke many times on FB... quarantining fish while quarantining myself :D. Luckily I got my first vaccine shot yesterday. One down, one to go!
 
How are people uploading pictures these days? Back when I was more active, it was photobucket, but I think that doesn't work any more, right?
 
caribfan said:
How are people uploading pictures these days? Back when I was more active, it was photobucket, but I think that doesn't work any more, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I maxed out PB and Flickr as I refuse to pay money just to host pics online. Other forums I use automatically resize files when uploaded directly.... this one is so archaic you have to resize it manually yourself. Don't expect to see any pics from me any time soon LOL..
 
SDguy said:
Yeah, I maxed out PB and Flickr as I refuse to pay money just to host pics online. Other forums I use automatically resize files when uploaded directly.... this one is so archaic you have to resize it manually yourself. Don't expect to see any pics from me any time soon LOL..
Click to expand...

That's a shame Peter, although I agree that PB is a headache, many photos previously posted here on RC have disappeared, but I guess you could just attach the image files in your post.
By the way, what product do you recommend to use instead of prazi during qt?
 
Fiish said:
That's a shame Peter, although I agree that PB is a headache, many photos previously posted here on RC have disappeared, but I guess you could just attach the image files in your post.
By the way, what product do you recommend to use instead of prazi during qt?
Click to expand...

The PB photos are still there, it's just that PB has stopped direct linking unless you pay.

I've only ever used prazi for flukes.
 
I typically do a fresh water dip if I suspect flukes. It’s a great way to determine if the fish is actually infected. 5-10 minutes in freshwater matched for temp and pH will clean them off the fish. If I see flukes, then I’ll dose Prazi.

I’ve kind of had more issues with prazi than I’ve had successes.
 
OK, I decided I am too old to get stressed out by aggressive fish during a pandemic LOL. So, the following happened:

Current Stock:

Amphiprion occelaris "œgladiator" x 2 "“ still growing out in the fuge.
Apolemichthys trimaculatus
Apolemichthys xanthurus "“ currently in the fuge looking for a new home.
Centropyge bispinosa - died. Unsure why.
Chaetodon burgessi
Chaetodon ephippium
Chaetodon mertensii
Chaetodon lunula x 2
Chaetodon vagabundus x 2
Chaetodon semilarvatus - of course the most expensive fish in the tank up and dies for no apparent reason.
Chaetodon kleini "“ removed all but 1.
Chaetodon rafflesii "“ was never able to catch him. Just disappeared one day. Darn murderous vagabond!
Chaetodon ulietensis
Chrysiptera parasema x 2
Chrysiptera talboti
Ctenochaetus cyanocheilus
Ctenochaetus strigosus
Ctenochaetus tominiensis
Ecsenius midas
Forcipiger flavissimus
Genicanthus lamarck "“ M/F pair
Halichoeres chrysus x 2
Halichoeres melanurus
Hemitaurichthys polylepis x 3
Holacanthus ciliaris "“ sold to new home.
Holacanthus tricolor
Labroides dimidiatus
Microcanthus strigatus
Pomacanthus imperator "“ sold to new home. Too aggressive.
Pomacanthus navarchus
Pomacentrus alleni
Pomacentrus coelestis
Salarias ramosus
Zebrasoma xanthurum "“ sold to new home.


QT has the following:

Chaetodon xanthurus
Centropyge bispinosa "“ tiny

Will likely move the QT fish over soon. Probably nothing planned for the near future, as fish selection online seems pretty low right now.
 
Last edited:
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