My Bartlett Anthias has popeye?

[FishPharm]

I have a Bartlett with popeye. Can the fish recover from this malady or is it just a matter of time before the writing is on the wall. My Bartlett still has a voracious appetite, so I continue to feed mysis soaked in garlic extract and enriched vitamins hoping this will give it a fighting chance to overcome the disease. While occupying the upper water column most of the time prior to this disease, it now hides near the top of the tank corner where my cleaning magnet is attached to the glass. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t what it to suffer, if there is no hope for recovery. I read about various medications available, like tetracycline. Has anyone treated for this disease and what worked for you? Please share your experiences. Thanx.

 

[leebca]

It can be treated. You don't want it to suffer.

I find the approach you have taken and recommend to others to be the contrary to what you say you want. You don't want your fish to suffer, but you are willing to put it through a disease without curing the fish. This is suffering by my standards. The concept of 'feed it well and let it alone' I find to be an irresponsible act and recommendation. This is in fact letting the fish suffer through a disease it can be cured of.

A fish with disease is suffering. It is under enormous stress. Just because you can't easily 'see' that stress and discomfort doesn't make it any less real. I think, 'let's see what happens' is a game that causes more harm. I would not let my grannie lay in bed with pneumonia and say, "Let's see if she pulls through" and not take her to the hospital, anymore than I would hope to see my fish pull through a disease without trying to cure it --- even if you or others have experience to the contrary. Just my opinion.

Giving fish proper nutrition as a means to overcome a disease is a way to allow your fish to suffer. This is what you recommend to people who have fish with possible Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans).
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=797701

Proper nutrition is a means to keep a fish healthy, it is not a means to cure a fish of a disease. Day to day proper nutrition should be your goal, not just when the fish is ill. Follow these guidelines for daily fish health through nutrition:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228

Your fish with Popeye can pull through without curing it -- about a 20% chance IF you've correctly diagnosed the problem. You can watch it suffer through it, or you can actually treat it. Treatments are discussed here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=792631
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=572323
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=561991
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5777657

Move to a hospital tank and treat with both Maracyn One and Two for saltwater fishes. You can combine that treatment with an anti-fungal treatment on the outside chance it is a fungal-based organism causing the problem.

 

[FishPharm]

Thanx Lee. I will take your advice as I have the room to set up a hospital tank.

As to how I treated the ich on my Hippo, I did consider placing the tang in QT. However, it was suggested trying to catch the tang would cause more stress. IMO by leaving it alone in unfamiliar surroundings may not help. So this is what convinced me to take this course of action. And so far, the Hippo is doing very well. Since my Bartlett is now hiding near the top of the tank, I may have a chance at netting him without tearing apart the tank. Again, thanx for the links and I will begin setting up a small hospital tank immediately.

 

[leebca]

FishPharm,

I understand the perspective of the lesser of two evils when it comes to fish stress. But there other factors to consider:
1) Stress from being caught can be minimized when done with optimal advantages to the aquarist; the stress from being caught is short-lived stress, not like the ongoing diseased stress;
2) A fish in quarantine can be given more attention; fed better; and unstressed by tankmates;
3) The QT doesn't have to be an unfamiliar cage, it can be decorated and given plenty of hiding places for the fish and yet still function very well for treatment;
4) Stress of being ill without aid, is VERY high; it is life-draining;
5) If the disease isn't removed from the display (i.e., by removing the fishes and treating them) it is likely to affect new fish or even eventually reinfect the current fishes, putting fish through the same scenario again.

When these factors are plugged into the thought process, the removal and treatment of the fish is what helps most.

It is still far easier to not put a disease in your display then trying to get it out (e.g., QT).

For the most part, those that recommend not to catch the sick fish are in effect the ones who don't have a clue as to the balance of what is best for the fish, in the long run, OR they just don't want to catch the fish and would like others to support their rationale. These people turn to garlic, ginger, reef safe alternate treatments, snake oil, etc. and one or more of these appear to work, because there is always that small percent chance that the fish will survive on its own, which they then attribute to their ''cure."

I'd take a process that cures almost 100% of the time over one that works 50% or less of the time.

Keep up the effort!

 

[FishPharm]

In a sense I'm still new to all this and do have an open mind trying to learn whatever I can. I want to do what is right. At the time, when I posted help for my tang, I was under the impression in the case of ich, one should quarantine. I weighed out their argument versus QT and the logic of stressing the fish made sense to me. Its posters such as yourself, that really can pinpoint with detail the reasons why/why not and how. Thank you Lee.

 

[FishPharm]

Obviously, got off subject a bit on my Bartlett. So, for now I need to go to the LFS and find Maracyn One and Two. I have medications for saltwater fish except these.

 

[leebca]

You're welcome FishPharm.

This medium (of writing notes -- posting) doesn't easily convey the 'tone' or 'intent' of the written words. I often write abruptly, but I mean to be helpful and informative without being offensive. So I am very glad you have not read into my writings anything derogatory, condemning or judgmental on yourself.

We are ALL learning! :thumbsup:

The Maracyn products are my favs, but they aren't the only ones. Do you already have other antibiotics?

Here's some info on Maracyn for you:
One of the best meds is Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish. That contains the antibiotic, Minocycline, along with B complex vitamins to improve appetite. This antibiotic is absorbed through the fish's skin and will help it with internal infections. For a slightly more hard hitting punch when the bacteria may be Gram Negative, is to use both Maracyn Two and Maracyn One, together.

It is preferred to use these Maracyn products for Saltwater Fishes. That formula contains B complex vitamins to stimulate appetite of the fish. However, you can achieve success using just Maracyn Two and/or Maracyn One for freshwater fishes, in your saltwater QT.

A good article on antibiotics: http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen.html

Maracyn contains Erythromycin, Maracyn Two contains Minocycline. Two very different meds for different bacteria. One antibiotic attacks gram positive bacteria and the other, gram negative. Knowing the type of bacteria you are battling comes in handy when choosing one over the other. If you donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t know the kind of bacteria you are dealing with, then you need to go by the fact that most bacterial infections in marine fish are GRAM NEGATIVE bacteria. Thus, Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes would be the medication of choice. The great thing about this medication is that it will work even when your fish will not eat. It penetrates into the fish and even helps the fish overcome internal bacterial infections (like those that cause eye swelling and/or Popeye conditions). Also, it has no adverse affect on your bio-filter activity. It leaves those bacteria alone.

Maracyn One for Saltwater fish is an antibiotic that attacks GRAM POSITIVE bacteria. This medication will have a distinct negative impact on the biological filter (as do most GRAM POSITIVE antibiotics). Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a must to only use this medication in a QT.

While Mardel does not promote the use of any of these meds in a reef aquarium, Maracyn Two has been reported to be successfully used in a reef. I have used Maracyn Two for Saltwater fishes in a FOWLR aquarium on several occasions without adverse affects. However, Mardel (and I) recommend you only use these products in a quarantine tank. Also, Mardel claims their Maracyn can be used while using their CopperSafe treatment.

:rollface: